Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?

[Paul R Johnson]

When you’ve taught music in college you realise that what people individually like can be wildly different. We also change our own likes. I keep remembering the first music I ever bough on a double LP. Goodbye yellow brick road. Still love it. Yet all the others I bought in the seventies I now hate. Spotify has them all, but some I cannot stand now!

[Josh Bass]

From the things you mention in your post I imagine you headbanging in your studio to Metallica and Motorhead.

[Greg Miller]

And what were the rest of them, Paul? Just imagining you in a disco outfit. ;-)

[Ryan Elder]

Okay so if my judgment of music is not the best then, and I should find out if the what I have in mind will work for the audience then, should I wait until the final cut of the movie, put the example tracks in then temporarily, and show it to an audience and ask them if they feel the types of tracks I have in mind would work then, before showing a composer those example tracks; or how else do you find out what the audience would think would work then?

Plus I didn't think I was ignoring all the advice, and I took a lot of the advice on here before. For example it was said to not use the harmonica, cause it wouldn't fit, so I didn't ask the composer to use it now, as a result of the advice. It's just some of the advice is risky, like if a composer gives me a track in the past, I didn't think worked with what I was going for, and the advice is to just let go with it anyway, it seems risky.

[Paul R Johnson]

Actually it was Status Quo and AC/DC. And now 40years later I’m in a Beach Boys band - you can have a laugh at my expense. Here’s us at the Abu Dhabi formula 1, pre-covid! Like the shirt?

[Ryan Elder]

It was also said on here that some of my choices of example tracks were good, so I didn't think they were too bad so far.

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

Eric Clapton - yes, I get this one, style wise. I can imagine this working for certain love scenes, or just thoughtful scenes. Best bit is it has no real melody - so nobody will be humming it.
TMNT - yep again, I can get this one - the precision (I've got loads of amazing bangs in some of my library)
The Morricone one with harmonica and delayed/reverby twangy guitar - a bit cliche, but a style I guess. Always makes me think cowboys and Arizona deserts with rocks.
The replacement killers is a collection of effects, sub bass for angst and a bit cliche ridden, but works as a style to work with.
Batman - no. 1950s/60s cartoon classics and just needs Mel Blanc's voice. It's a period style that doesn't;t relate to contemporary use of music in movies.
No idea about the Amusement piece. Totally out for me as it sounds locked in the 50s and jocular so OK for an Ealing Comedy, or cartoon, but it conjures up everything your movie doesn't for me.
Sin City - works for me except whatever that low reed is - which I personally hate and it gets in the way.
Spartan - works for me as it's moody and rhythmic but isn't memorable - which I think makes it better.
Blowout has great incidental music and again, does the job.
Incomprehensible captivity - not, in my view one of his better pieces, but it sets the scene and makes people uncomfortable, so probably out of context, is a good choice.
United 93 - another non-descript rhythmic piece - again, does what it is supposed to without going anywhere.

Red Heat just shows Horner can write noise too. Probably needs the scene for me to contextualise. The hotel is tricky for me, but the chase feel to bus station is typical, but of course cliche based.

I have seen one of those movies - just one!

[Paul R Johnson]

You still miss the point Ryan - it is NOT the instruments, it's the context of those instruments in those pieces - they just work. The harmonica in westerns - it became a cliche sound. It was never the best, but for one movie it fitted, so another movie tried it and then at some point it stopped being in used. That doesn't make the harmonica a wrong choice - it was rejected and that's fine - it's evolution. You want to have a list that has instruments matched to genres and moods, and that doesn't work.

What I'm saying is that composers choose the sounds to match the piece - they often nowadays don't even know what it is. I'll try to explain. I had this one to do - the visuals were fish - tropical fish and carp type things. I used a piece of public domain classical music and used synths and samplers rather than conventional instruments, and I actually started with a Harmonica - I suspect it could have been our chats on the forum that made me think harmonic was good, but it wasn't and evolved into a treated celeste - which with all the layers of stuff all adding flavour I think worked pretty well. For context, imagine a dark exhibition booth with the rear wall made up not of TV monitors but fish tanks against black backgrounds - with this playing. So the arrangement uses most of the notes Camille Saint-Saens wrote a long time ago - but with different instruments to his version. I also did a version of Clare de Lune which also has that wobbly kind of background and the two were cycled through and probably drove the stand people mad for three days.

You have in your head a sound and it's glued to a movie. You need to understand that guide and demo tracks are just that - examples of the kind of thing - NOT something for a musician to rigidly follow. Most musicians I know would fall into two camps. Do whatever the client asks for and if it's rubbish, it's their fault, or those who would suggest or try to explain. clients who rigidly hang onto flawed choices rarely go far.

Here is a link.

The Aquarium - YouTube

There's a screenshot if it helps.

[Brian Drysdale]

As an aside. I used "The Aquarium" as a temp track in one of my films. The composer went for the feel and mood of it, using different instruments, with the music that he composed for the soundtrack.

[Paul R Johnson]

That's the point Ryan doesn't get I think, Brian - they're a stimulus, and not a rigid formula to follow. I've got a kind of unofficial 2 tier pricing for this kind of music. Public domain classical style can save client budget, or they can have totally new. One got me - he liked a piece of Satie - put wanted a unique one so I wrote a No. 4. I was rather pleased when I saw somebody discussing it and telling a friend there was actually a much less well known no.4 - which turned out to be mine!

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, when it comes to context, I felt that the example tracks I picked were in context with the story and script though or at least I thought so.

[Paul R Johnson]

You know what you like - nobody is doubting that, the question is what about the audience?

[Ryan Elder]

Oh well what if I put the example tracks in a cut of the movie, just temporarily and showed it to a test audience and get thier opinions on the tracks, if that's best?

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Ryan the larger issue that comes up in every topic is you struggle with decision making and judgement. Seems like stubbornly clinging to rules or copying other movies is a coping mechanism you've developed.

Everyone, including a child has opinions and knows what they like, but this doesn't mean that they are qualified to make good decisions.

We can't answer your questions and you can't understand our answers because you lack an underlying fundamental ability needed to direct and produce a movie.

Why do you think there are no indie film makers here asking the type of questions you ask?

[Paul R Johnson]

Ryan, if you show it to a test audience, you would not believe them if they said anything other than your own opinion. You do this all the time.

[Ryan Elder]

Well I can try to keep an open mind then and follow the advice. If my judgment is not as good then, should I do the test audience method?

I can try to follow the advice on here. The advice is, when working with a composer, let the composer choose the sounds. But if the sounds do not work I find after? What's the next step? Is the next step to show it to an audience and ask them if they think it works? If not, do I go back the composer and ask him if some adjustments can be made based on the audience's opinions?