Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, I don't think I have a thick skin to the point where I throw everything out. I have used a lot of advice on here and it's been very helpful to me. It was pointed out that I should scrap the harmonica for example, so I decided to scrap it.

Originally Posted by Pete Cofrancesco

wow

Anyone else get the feeling Ryan throws around terms or talks about higher level concepts to make it sound like he either knows more than he does or that project is more professional than it really is? Does this composer exist or is this like when someone says their "friend" has a problem but it's really them.

Ryan do you ever listen to what we are saying? The particular instruments are not important. You get everything backwards. The director job is to film the movie and then communicate to the composer the story and mood he wants the music to convey. You might suggest to him you would like a grand orchestral score like Ennio Morricone but you wouldn't hand pick instrument that you copied from scenes of other movies.

It's clear you don't have any background in music stop with this crazy copy paste method of yours.

Well for past projects I wouldn't tell the composer what instruments to use. But if I did this, the music didn't come out to what I wanted. For example on project I did before, the composer made the music so the harp was mostly the predominant instrument and the harp was playing a lot through it. But I didn't feel the harp worked at all, for the tone and feeling I was going for. It's how you play the instrument you say, but I still didn't think the sound worked, even though it was being played to my footage.

So how do I not copy and paste, but at the same time, not have the composer use sounds, I don't think will work? Can't I just say to a composer, I like the flute or piano here, and do to something like that, without it being copying and pasting, because they can still use similar sounds, but make it their own?

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

Ryan - try to keep up. A recorder is a flute family musical instrument. The type where airflow is diverted by a sharp edge.

I did not say a native American flute is not a flute, its a different type of flute. Forget everything I have said - I thought you understood music to a level where we could be accurate. Clearly we can't. A cello playing low does not sound like a double bass playing high. A bass flute (a real orchestral one) does not sound like an orchestral flute playing low, and a bass range wooden flute from America does not sound like one from Africa when American or Africans play them differently.

Do you have the vocabulary to communicate effectively with your composer about music? Saying cello - means nothing at all really, other than a low string instrument.

When I show composers my example tracks of what I am looking for, cello or flute for example is in those tracks. So if I tell the composer, I like the way that instrument is being played here, he knows what I want it to sound like based on those tracks therefore, doesn't he?

I can't just not give the composer example tracks because when I did this before in past projects, the music didn't come out as to what I was thinking at all. So I feel I need to give them some sort of a steer but is there a way to get what I am looking for, without copying and pasting?

Plus I worked with the composer on two projects before and gave him example tracks, and no one who watched the movie said that it was copied and pasted from past soundtracks, so I thought it was different enough therefore. As for me not knowing what a recorder flute is, it never came up with the composer when we were going over flutes to use. If the composer recommends flutes to me that are the closest one to get that sound, he didn't mention a recorder flute, so I didn't know about it. He said it was a bass native American flute, but did not mention to look for a recorder type flute specifically to use. But thank you very much for point it out!

So in order for me to understand what flutes count as recorders, would a xiao or shakuhachi for example, be recorder flutes? But I could just ask the composer that if he cannnot get the flute in the example track to just get the closest sounding one he can get that would sound good in that kind of context of the example track?

[Brian Drysdale]

Why don't you use google to find out these pieces of information/ The internet is great for finding out this type of stuff, rather than asking other people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Record...cal_instrument)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakuhachi

[Ryan Elder]

Sorry yes, I looked it up. A xiao is a recorder but a shakuhachi is not.

Well I could ask the composer if a recorder would be better instead. However, a lot of the lower sounding ones, sound like clarinets and I don't really like that. But none of these recorders so seem to have specific names. They are just called recorders a lot of the time.

[Paul R Johnson]

No they are not Ryan. A recorder, orchestral flute and a clarinet are all very different instruments and produce their sound by different processes. A clarinet is NEVER, EVER called a recorder - don't be silly. A recorder is a generic term for a flute that has an air splitting edge in the airstream. An orchestral flute is like blowing across a beer bottle and a clarinet has a reed - all different.

PS, an Xiao is a flute, not a recorder. If you do research, probably best to do it a little more er, accurately before you produce conclusions for your rule book. It's in the whistle family, if it helps. It's also very ancient - going back to the Middle Ages.

History lesson aside, the evolution of musical instruments has taken place in parallel so your Native American flute has cousins in Asia, Europe and Africa, to name just a few.

The sound of instruments is based on their mode of operation, so a Japanese flute sounds similar in tone to your Native American one - BUT - the notes they can actually play are quite different. They drill holes in the bore and they block them, or not, with fingers. Where the holes go, and how many give the characteristic cultural location - NOT the method they produce the actual note.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay thanks, I understand the physical difference now. Thanks. But a recorder sounds a clarinet to me, in terms of sound, when I hear it though. They are different but have a similar sound, and not sure if I want a recorder if it sounds like a clarinet.

I will try to look for some that do not, but so far a lot of them do, when I just play recorder solos.

[Paul R Johnson]

Clarinets do NOT sound like recorders Ryan.

YouTube (Short URL)

This is a recorder.

YouTube (Short URL)

This is a clarinet.

[Brian Drysdale]

The recorders we learnt to play at school sounded nothing like a Clarinet, if they did, people might have been more enthusiastic about plating them.

[Ryan Elder]

The first video is not available in my country. Well I'm just going by what I here. For example, here is a recorder video I found:

Reveuse Bass Solo Recorder - YouTube

Isn't this a clarinet in this video music here at 0:02 into the video:

The Puzzle - YouTube

I thought it was a clarinet. But to me the recorder sounds like the instrument in the second video. They dound exactly alike, but quite similar to me.

[Brian Drysdale]

That's a bass recorder, which a lot larger than an ordinary recorder or a clarinet

[Ryan Elder]

Sure it's larger, but I was just comparing sounds, not sizes. The reason why I was listening to the larger recorders, is because I am trying to find one in the similar range I want, since I will want a low sounding one. It sounds similar to a clarinet to me, and I was just pointing out, how I am not a fan of that clarinet like sound.

[Brian Drysdale]

You seem to carry a lot of musical baggage.

Here's an interesting talk on the evolution of the early clarinet during Mozart's time.

Introducing Mozart's Clarinet - YouTube

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, that's interesting. Well I don't think I would want the recorder, because I feel it sounds like a clarinet, which was not what I was going for, but it might sound good in the context of the piece, depending on what the composer can do with it. If not though, I could just ask the composer to keep the piece as written but swap out that instrument for another one that sounds different, if that's best.

[Greg Miller]

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

a recorder sounds a clarinet to me, in terms of sound,

A recorder is closer to a clarinet than it is to a drum. But it certainly doesn't sound the same ... there is a significant difference ... huge.

How odd, I guess one can not develop a keen sense of hearing, and ability to identify musical instruments, simply from reading and talking about it. Who woulda thunk it? I'll bet the "composer" is going batshit from his conversations with Ryan.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, well I guess I am just not as big of a fan of the recorder so far then, as it is not quite the sound I am looking for.

I know the type of sound I am going for compared to movie scores I have heard before, and I have the sound in my head, just not sure on the best instrument to produce that sound. I thought the bass flute might be the closest, but if a recorder is better, perhaps there are some that sound closer to what I want then, I can keep looking.

So when you hear these recorders here, they don't sound similar to a clarinet at all you don't think?

Bach Minuet bass recorder BWV1007 - YouTube

Reveuse Bass Solo Recorder - YouTube

[Josh Bass]

Originally Posted by Greg Miller

A recorder is closer to a clarinet than it is to a drum. But it certainly doesn't sound the same ... there is a significant difference ... huge.

How odd, I guess one can not develop a keen sense of hearing, and ability to identify musical instruments, simply from reading and talking about it. Who woulda thunk it? I'll bet the "composer" is going batshit from his conversations with Ryan.

call me an optimist but I like to think its like those pop culture sites that post a 5000-word article in 10 500-word “articles”, one each day. In other words, hopefully our boy’s only talked with this composer once or twice and we simply get a different slice of these few meetings every time it’s brought up.