Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?

[Ryan Elder]

But what about movies that are not based off comic books that are serious but still have comedic sounding music during the more dark comedy moments, such as 15 Minutes (2001), or To Die For (1995)?

But even if the music I am into is operatic, don't other movies that take place in modern times, have operatic music? Doesn't a modern police procedural, such as The Silence of the Lambs or the prequel Red Dragon, even more so for example, have more operatic music?

[Paul R Johnson]

It doesn't matter what type it is as long as it works. The real and 'proper' Batman from the 60s (the only good one to my way of thinking) had big band instrumentation and it worked well with the light hearted TV show. The same characters in the movies when it went dark also do a great job. You can introduce opera if it is appropriate. This is what you have trouble with. You ask and ask and ask and get contrary input, that you take as meaning something is wrong. Perhaps it is, but sometimes you get bad advice. At some point you need to be able to decide for yourself. You seem to itemise other movies and if they were a success you determine the choice of music was correct, so when your path crosses, you determine that X is correct, because it worked on Y.

Music really is bolted onto the visuals. It's rare to come first. It's both a creative and reactive art. Who can tell if the certain sound you want for some reason will fit your edit? We certainly can't. To be honest, nor can you?

[Brian Drysdale]

As Paul says, you have to use music that's appropriate for your film.

What works in another film may not work in your film. it may even be counterproductive.

You personally have to know the emotions that's being created in your film and how the music will assist in conveying these. Endlessly referring to other films seems to suggest that you can't make creative decisions unless someone has done it before in a movie.

.

[Ryan Elder]

I think the music will go with the context of the movie. The temp tracks I picked sound wildly different from each other, but they were the closest things I could find to what I want. So I thought the composer could take ideas from those, and do similar tracks, but make them sound closer to one another, or so I thought.

This is why I thought we should pick a certain number of instruments with him to stick to, because I thought that if you stick to those instruments, the tracks will not sound so wildly different, if you want to change moods for certain scenes. Or so I thought.

[Brian Drysdale]

You really do put the cart before the horse, you haven't even seen your rushes or cut the film yet. The whole mood may change with the images and the performances

The music is the least of your worries and is possibly a distraction from the real decisions that need to be made.

[Ryan Elder]

Yeah that's true. I just want to do what I can during covid, since I cannot shoot anything at the moment, plus it being winter time as well, which makes some scenes difficult to shoot. So I just want to get things done in the mean time. Plus I thought if I played music during some of the dialogue-less scenes, it would help actors to perform a certain way later on, during the shooting.

[Paul R Johnson]

All I can say Ryan is that you should search out a website called clients from hell. Have a good read through and you'll see that you are, or are working towards being one of those clients.

You are choosing entire tracks, when it's the components that matter. You really cannot join two different style tracks together. It has never worked like that, but you're not a musician, so you will have to take our word for it. However, if (as you usually do) want rules, then study Disney movies. They have much wider extremes - they go from comedy to dire straits, from animals and people dying to them being born. Maybe look at the lion king, because primarily the well known music is songs, with song structure. They're also simpler. Look at all the music in Lion King, and you will see the commonality, the sequence, the style and the mechanics of blending moods. You simply cannot join things randomly together. Please believe us, it doesn't work. If your composer is really good, he could do the mechanics so the keys match, the tempos blend and the instrumentation doesn't clash - BUT - it will sound horrible. Like those old crash edits we used to do with video. Ideally - trust the composer.
Scene one, 2:38. Slow, romantic, but ends with a shock.
Scene two. 3:20 From the shock start, tension builds as the characters search the area for the murderer. They find him at 3:57 when the tension releases and the captured murderer is put into the police van and we see his awareness of what is to follow.

Most composers could follow that and come up with something appropriate. If you decide that you MUST have the harmonica when he is caught inside the van - this if planned and prepared for won't be a problem.

WHAT WILL BE A PROBLEM IS MIMICRY - Expecting him to re-arrange an existing track is deadly dull to do, artistically uninspiring, and 0 satisfaction in a job well done.

Once you get the script sorted and the video shot, and have done a satisfactory initial edit, you burn in the timecode and hand it to the composer. You then wait weeks perhaps while he builds all the cues from scratch. You then annoy him by requesting changes because you just remembered the similar scene from an ancient Steve McQueen movie. He fixes this, but you then feel the next scene is not right and make him change that and so on. Then he say "stuff it" and walks. Musicians are temperamental types and all the musical directors and composers I know hate interference from Directors when they know what they have is good, and the Director believes a bass flute will fix it.

[Ryan Elder]

I see what you mean. The temp tracks I provided on here, are not close at all, and I realize that. But they are the CLOSEST I could find to what I have in mind. Of course they do not match, and the composer would have to come up with ones that go together more. I just provided them as examples, because they were the closest I could come across.

I don't have to give the composer any temp tracks at all if that's better. I just thought I would have trouble describing what I want, if I do it in my own words, and thought that that temp tracks could give a better idea than I could.

One of the short films I did before, the music didn't turn out much like how I wanted it it to at all, just based off my explanations, so I thought that temp tracks examples, would help.

[Brian Drysdale]

What you are talking about isn't a temp track as used in the industry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temp_track

[Paul R Johnson]

never seen that link Brian, sums it up pretty well.

I started another today as it happens and the steer I got was sci-fi drones, and the time. That's it. The video is an animation of some kind of space ship or possibly underwater. It's a low res computer animation and has a title at the start that indicates it's an early render without the submarine/spaceship (it says vessel to be added later) and I just have a cube moving through 'things'. I've assumed space. I'm just being careful that if it turns out to be water, I can tweak to make that work too.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, should I call them example tracks then or should I use a different term?

[Brian Drysdale]

It's more a music industry term, but demo might be closer in this case, since it's more a demonstration of the instruments than a temp track.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh thanks. Well I can either give the composer demo tracks, unless the tracks are too different for him to get what I am going for, in which I can just describe what I want, and with a list of instruments to make it all sound of the same and blend, if that's better?

[Paul R Johnson]

Ryan, you just don’t understand. Your not a musician so what you call them doesn’t matter. Using the right terminology doesn’t matter if the subject is wrong, and giving him tracks you call temp tracks, that aren’t doesn’t matter if the musical intention works. We work in skill area compartments. None of the departs on their own area expect others to really understand what they do, but we all need to do translation. Have you considered for a moment that your composer might have better ideas than you, and like me, might really wonder about your ‘guidance’. You cannot give him a list of instruments to make it sound the same, that’s like forcing an an artist to use somebody else’s colour pallette.

You are trying to be involved more than your role normally allows. He needs a gentle steer, but you want control of the rudder and the map.

Remember that if you insist on providing tracks that has to work to, they need to already blend and match. You need to find examples of how your comedy music blends with murder music. It’s so odd a mix, he’ll struggle. So if you can’t find suitable examples, that’s because it doesn’t work, as you seem able to find the strangest examples so far.

Best advice. Forget about the music till you can give him something real. In the script topic, we haven’t got a clue about your movie because you explain it so badly. So how can you write music for something so vague and ever changing?

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay. I can give him a gentle stear without examples, if that's best. He probably has better ideas than me. He just asks me what I want so I am want let him know what I was thinking for the music in the best way. But he'll probably come up with better ideas, and that's great.