Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?

[Ryan Elder]

Oh sorry I don't mean to make it seem like I am rejecting advice. It's just if I am advised to something I feel I need to know more about it, with details, otherwise I don't know why I am taking that piece of advise, or what I am doing with it exactly. That's all. I don't mean to make it sound like I am rejecting advice.

I know music is not sound effects, but I thought we were talking about more than just sound effects, and actual music I want, aren't we? And yes you are right, I cannot tell the difference between certain instruments. But I know that I want a low flute like sound and that that sound is made by a flute for sure. So wouldn't that be good for a composer to go off of? I don't understand the musical side of it, but I know what I want the music to sound like. But if I don't work with the composer on it, then it likely not sound like how I want, will it?

[Brian Drysdale]

You do need to trust your composer, otherwise you'll just end of with another example of your copy and paste approach to film making.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, for sure. It's just some of the instruments seem to difficult to make sound natural if using samples, and wondered if anything else can be done, audio wise, or anything.

[Brian Drysdale]

Isn't this your composer's job rather than the directors?

[Ryan Elder]

Yeah I just wanted other opinions on what the limitations are and wondering if it was possible with just other samples perhaps? For the flute example, all I did was tell the composer I want a low bass flute type sound, played in a similar way like in the temp track I showed him. Was that really abnormal of me to do that, and is it really going to be that hard for a composer to do? I thought saying that was not asking too much?

[Brian Drysdale]

You can. but you seem to be working with your own limitations, rather than allowing the composer to come up with more than you can imagine, That's the job of the director to guide, then let your creative people off to see what they come up with.

The composer should be able to find samples or get a musician to play customised samples.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh sure the composer could come up with more than I can imagine that would be great! I was just wanting to point him in a direction I was going for, so he doesn't do something that is different than what I was looking for. But if he exceeds what I imagined, that's great.

[Brian Drysdale]

You're over cooking this, the composer can hear what's required from your temp tracks. Telling them what's in just one of your messages here should do the job.

Of course, given all this may be a year or more in the future, it's best not to get too locked in, ideas can change.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay I thought that temp tracks would convey what I want better than I could explain it.

[Brian Drysdale]

They will, but all you need to convey that you feel that such and such sounds good,

BTW There is music other than film music around.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, what do you mean there is music other than film music around? Are you saying I shouldn't use temp tracks from movies always?

[Paul R Johnson]

So many movies use music from other sources.

You clearly still do not understand sampling. If the RESULT doesn’t sound real, that’s because the sample was bad, or more likely inappropriate . I just counted how many string samples are in just one of the folders in just one of my individual sample packages over 3000! Each one is a slightly different single note.

You seem to still be thinking effects. This is not a musical sample, which is what you need.

[Brian Drysdale]

Why do you seem to make illogical assumptions on what you're being told?

No, just that there's other music around, some of which is the inspiration for film music composers. Penderecki is one such, a classical composer, his music has been used in soundtracks.

[Paul R Johnson]

In a way, music for visual thinks has been composed for hundreds of years. Fireworks, for example - just like today. Clients brief - we're having a huge firework display, make the people cheer up and feel a bit better, so can you write some music that goes well with the display?

Or maybe somebody wanted to tell the story of a fairytale voyage across calm seas, but then have a storm and terrible calamities? Or maybe a bloody battle, but a proud one - or stories about fairy or swans dying?

It's the same thing - Composer thinks - hmmm let's have a big explosion, how can I do that?

Personally I absolutely hate the idea of a composer being presented with somebodies favourite music as a suggestion. I avoid musical cliches whenever I can.

Ryan - tell me what you learned from watching Guy Michelmore compose? Did you understand how it evolved - and most importantly did you spot any musical cliches?

You also need to sometimes experiment and use sounds out of context. I remember back in the 70s and 80s people who took classical tracks and used synths instead - it was popular for a short time then died out, so that's what I've been trying - I'm not sure if it works, to be honest. Is it more sci-fi or perhaps underwater? I can't decide if I like it or not - it's certainly not movie cliche, but I'm not sure it holds up. The original is destroyed in a way by the treatment and the mangling of bits of it - but I figured the constant arpeggios the piano plays were sort of robotic - so here's my question,

A good direction to expand on, or forget totally and move on.
https://youtu.be/uBF4bJo-d1c?list=OL...aZsHtO2QZ60JcA

[Ryan Elder]

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

So many movies use music from other sources.

You clearly still do not understand sampling. If the RESULT doesn’t sound real, that’s because the sample was bad, or more likely inappropriate . I just counted how many string samples are in just one of the folders in just one of my individual sample packages over 3000! Each one is a slightly different single note.

You seem to still be thinking effects. This is not a musical sample, which is what you need.

But effects will not work for everything though, and I still need musical samples for a lot of the music, won't I?

Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale

Why do you seem to make illogical assumptions on what you're being told?

No, just that there's other music around, some of which is the inspiration for film music composers. Penderecki is one such, a classical composer, his music has been used in soundtracks.

Oh well I am not sure if I want to use a classical composer on the soundtrack. It depends the music of course. But I would still have to get the composer to re-compose it though, in order for it to not be copywritten, right?

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

In a way, music for visual thinks has been composed for hundreds of years. Fireworks, for example - just like today. Clients brief - we're having a huge firework display, make the people cheer up and feel a bit better, so can you write some music that goes well with the display?

Or maybe somebody wanted to tell the story of a fairytale voyage across calm seas, but then have a storm and terrible calamities? Or maybe a bloody battle, but a proud one - or stories about fairy or swans dying?

It's the same thing - Composer thinks - hmmm let's have a big explosion, how can I do that?

Personally I absolutely hate the idea of a composer being presented with somebodies favourite music as a suggestion. I avoid musical cliches whenever I can.

Ryan - tell me what you learned from watching Guy Michelmore compose? Did you understand how it evolved - and most importantly did you spot any musical cliches?

You also need to sometimes experiment and use sounds out of context. I remember back in the 70s and 80s people who took classical tracks and used synths instead - it was popular for a short time then died out, so that's what I've been trying - I'm not sure if it works, to be honest. Is it more sci-fi or perhaps underwater? I can't decide if I like it or not - it's certainly not movie cliche, but I'm not sure it holds up. The original is destroyed in a way by the treatment and the mangling of bits of it - but I figured the constant arpeggios the piano plays were sort of robotic - so here's my question,

A good direction to expand on, or forget totally and move on.
https://youtu.be/uBF4bJo-d1c?list=OL...aZsHtO2QZ60JcA

Okay thanks, I watch Guy Michelmore... I listened to your music example there. What am I looking for specifically? When it comes to Guy Michelmores videos, does he do any on cliches specifically? I am starting off his videos now... I didn't think I was telling my composer to do a cliche though, but rather just point him in the direction I wanted.