Is stereo necessary? Rode NT4 for documentary, interviews...

Ray Ambrosi · May 27th, 2006, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gian Pablo Villamil

Exactly.
The concern with, say the Sony mike or the AT 835ST in L/R mode, is that they don't do a straight transform between M-S and L-R: they apply multipliers to give the narrow or wide field effects. (It would be nice to know what these multipliers are...) So you'd have to do some tweaking to reconstruct the exact, original M-S inputs. However, since the MSED plugin is doing two symmetrical transforms, you can still use it to tweak "spatialization" of an incoming L-R signal, even if you don't know how that signal was constructed from the original M-S. You're basically applying differences.

Thanks Gian. You've explained things in a way that's easy for me to understand. So after reading this, I conclude that considering the high cost of M-S mics, and my need for an internal battery, I'm going to buy a AT825 stereo mic (AA battery and lightweight). If I want to try to get M-S audio, I'll use that piece of software to manipulate the recordings and obtain it. After reading the posts, the AT825 seems to have fewer noise issues than the Rode NT4, and is half the weight. The Sony would be decent perhaps, but it seems that pros doing use it. That seems to be a revealing fact on its performance.

Any opinions about my decision before I go out to buy? Thanks for the rental idea, but at $45 per day, its not worth it for me to rent and I don't know what I'm listening for yet. I'm going to make my decision based on those finely-tuned & experienced ears of the people who know

Gian Pablo Villamil · May 27th, 2006, 06:30 PM

Here's a thought: get some video you like (maybe a clip from a movie) with stereo sound, drop it into your NLE and use the MSED plugin to fiddle with it. That will give you an idea of what is possible.

For example, copy the stereo tracks. Use the plugin on the original tracks in "inline" mode to drop the gain on the mid and leave only the sides. Use the plugin on the copy in "encode" mode, gain up the mid and kill the side to extract only the center channel. Mix all the tracks together. Experiment with panning the center channel back and forth. You should be able to do stuff like moving only the dialogue from left to right, while the background sound stays put. It's no substitute for actually having a bunch of different mikes, but you can have some fun, and learn some stuff.

David Ennis · May 28th, 2006, 08:06 AM

BTW, several other of the free VST plugins at that site are nice too--a real time frequency distribution display, a mono to quasi-stereo processor, etc.

Ty Ford · May 28th, 2006, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seth Bloombaum

Yeah, that's the question alright.

In this case, how "line" is line, how "shotgun" is shotgun? Within what looks to be the interference tube of a short shotgun, there's the figure-8 capsule, which must be in the slotted section of the tube, plus the mid capsule... so how much interference tube is left to provide side cancellation to the mid capsule? Does the mid-mic have the (hollow sounding) characterstics of a shotgun when used indoors?

I'm looking for a single-housing M-S mic for primary use indoors. With what I can afford there are really only two I'm aware of, the AT835ST and the Shure VP88. However, I don't know anyone who has either one, nor a retailer in this area, so I'm very interested in Gian Pablo's experience of the AT.

Well there is the Neumann RSM 191 (you will be really upset after hearing it to know you can't afford it). You can get a lot of work done with the 835ST.

I have a review of both in my archive.

Regards,

Ty Ford

David Ennis · May 28th, 2006, 12:38 PM

Ty, although you found the LF roll off patterns of the ATs interesting I gather that you liked the overall sound of the VP88 better. Is that right?

Seth Bloombaum · May 28th, 2006, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

Well there is the Neumann RSM 191 (you will be really upset after hearing it to know you can't afford it). You can get a lot of work done with the 835ST.

I have a review of both in my archive.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Ty, thanks for the advice. I *have* employed a sound engineer who has the RSM 191, it is an awesome mic that I would love to use all the time, but no, I can't afford to purchase one!

I'll check out your reviews.

Ty Ford · May 28th, 2006, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Ty, although you found the LF roll off patterns of the ATs interesting I gather that you liked the overall sound of the VP88 better. Is that right?

Well the problem is I didn't review them at the same time so I can't respond directly in a A/B sort of way.

I do remember that the wider settings of the VP88 resulted in noticeably more noise (presumably from the gain being turned up on the side capsule.)

Regards,

Ty

May 28th, 2006, 08:06 AM	#63
David Ennis Fred Retread Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Hartford, CT Posts: 1,227	BTW, several other of the free VST plugins at that site are nice too--a real time frequency distribution display, a mono to quasi-stereo processor, etc. __________________ "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence..." - Calvin Coolidge "My brain is wired to want to know how other things are wired." - Me Last edited by David Ennis; May 28th, 2006 at 12:39 PM.

May 28th, 2006, 12:38 PM	#65
David Ennis Fred Retread Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Hartford, CT Posts: 1,227	Ty, although you found the LF roll off patterns of the ATs interesting I gather that you liked the overall sound of the VP88 better. Is that right? __________________ "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence..." - Calvin Coolidge "My brain is wired to want to know how other things are wired." - Me

May 27th, 2006, 06:30 PM	#62
Gian Pablo Villamil Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 138	Here's a thought: get some video you like (maybe a clip from a movie) with stereo sound, drop it into your NLE and use the MSED plugin to fiddle with it. That will give you an idea of what is possible. For example, copy the stereo tracks. Use the plugin on the original tracks in "inline" mode to drop the gain on the mid and leave only the sides. Use the plugin on the copy in "encode" mode, gain up the mid and kill the side to extract only the center channel. Mix all the tracks together. Experiment with panning the center channel back and forth. You should be able to do stuff like moving only the dialogue from left to right, while the background sound stays put. It's no substitute for actually having a bunch of different mikes, but you can have some fun, and learn some stuff.