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<<<-- Originally posted by Don Mahr : Agus where did you get the pentaprism from?
And is there any way you could put up a simple little diagram of how yours is put together with the pentaprism? Thanks -->>> from here... http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l2080.html i got 4 to make some copies :) . That one you put it in the viewfinder of your dv camera so you still shot flipped, but with less loss of light but you can see it flipped in the viewfinder. and here... http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l2097d.html i made some test with that one, but i will make a new adapter from scratch to then compare both versions. also i will be receivin this in a couple of days to test it up. http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l3020p.html They can zoom and have a wide aperture size. F/1.4 ! also i will give this one a try. http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l1465.html thanks for all to keep up with this thread, and i am really coming close to a fully comercial version working :) |
fresnel lens
just returned from a tour through my city here in switzerland in order to get a fresnel.....no chance i give up! if anyone in europe has one and could send me a link of an online-store or any the guys in the states want to make me happy and send me one, perhaps we could make a deal and i could send you some premium swiss chocolate(;-).
Filip. about the 37mm Macro-Lens. I tested my agus with a sony p-100 with 37mm and i took my cheap sony wide angle 0.6 the one that's completly out of plastic(can post a picture if anyone is interested) and took of the front lens. It mus be between seven and ten diopters and only a bit of zooming is needed to capture the picture on GG. thomas mailto:maes@maes.ch |
Re: www.dvinfo.net/media/hart
Furthur to Chris' post above, the filenames are :- "agustele.jpg" which is an image of the close-couple optical adaptor for the PD150 and the telescope eyepiece the lens set came from. This is a very big file as I did not downsample the image so as to keep it faithful to 1:1. "agusassy2.jpg" which is a downsampled version of a an original scan image. This shows the Agus35 "Australian Plumber's Version" attached to the PD150 via its own lens hood mount over the telescope eyepiece lens set in a home-made adaptor which separately attaches into the PD150 58mm filter thread. "agusaust.jpg" This is a huge 1.1Mb file of several components which were placed face down on a document scanner. The file has not been downsampled in order to keep it faithful to 1:1. "agusarm3.jpg" is an image which is about the sharpest I have been able to achieve with the rotating CD used as a groundglass. True glass dressed with aluminium oxide 600 grade powder yields a better image but so far I have been only able to make fixed panels out of microscope slides. It is also critical for that CD to spin true. Even the most slightest run-out will move the image and therefore soften it. Run-out can be checked for by looking at your still frames in an image software at high magnification. If the disk is not running true, the image will be alternately sharp and soft on the CD which will also be moving in and out of camcorder focus. This will be too small to see in the viewfinder. In the highly magnified image you will see minute interlace artifacts which suggests very small movements of the groundglass image between frames. You solve one of the flickering defects caused by run-out by turning the spindle motor faster but this has the side-effect of the camcorder and 35mm lens seeing a "thicker" groundglass with loss of resolution. FOOTNOTE ADDED LATER: I did a websearch tonight on dove prisms. It seems that dove prisms may not be an option for our purposes as those which yield a wide enough image will not fit within the focal lengths of our 35mm lenses or the space between our groundglass image plane and camcorder close-up lenses. |
i tried with dove prisms... they only flip the imave vertically, not horizontaly... so no solution.. what you need is a pentaprism and copy the same configuration from a slr camera.
anyone have a site where you can buy fresnel lens online ? |
More from Bob:
"Attached are three .jpg files of cinemascope lens tests with the Agus35. The same lens resolves better into 35mm lenses than into video direct or into 16mm motion picture lenses. Close-up, there is little to tell between the 4:3 and 2x anamorphic image yield via the same prime lens. From about 20ft to infinity it all starts to fall apart. So the scenic vistas are not an option. Finely textured low contrast scenic vistas never were with MiniDV, or CineAlta for that matter, so all is not necessarily lost. For simple use as an effect stitched into another format the results from the Agus35 2x anamorphic combination would be fine in medium to close up shots of actors and action with the background kept soft." www.dvinfo.net/media/hart/aguscne1.JPG www.dvinfo.net/media/hart/aguscne3.JPG www.dvinfo.net/media/hart/aguscne2.JPG |
hey bob where i can buy those lens ??!?! can you show up a picture of them ?
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Agus.
The cinemascope lens is a "Proskar 2X Anamorphic 16". This and other brands were fairly common in the 70s - 80s for projection of 16mm copies of 35mm movies. 16mm was big before 80s video took the place of film prints for movie distribution to ships at sea, oil rigs, remote workplaces and construction sites. The Proskars came with an adaptor to directly fit into Bell and Howell 50mm focal length projector lenses. Some others were of the traditional cinema design with a rod and swingdown arrangement. I'll hunt down a .jpg of the same lens fitted up to a Bolex. I think its still on the computer here somewhere. They should be findable secondhand as I have seen one or two over the years among professional gear in photographic equipment stores. You might still find them covered in dust on a shelf in small village cinemas where video projectors have taken over. Some of the Christian organisations may still have them around in basements and attics, though most if not all the Anderson style movie production was distributed in standard frame (4:3). |
Furthur to above, I have sent to Chris some .jpg files titled "Anamorphic On Bolex" and Anamorphic on Bolex2" which illustrate the Proskar lens. It is mounted onto a 1970s Cosmicar 25mm C Mount prime lens in that illustration.
(Note for 16mm motion film experimenters. - The filter thread in the Cosmicar DOES-NOT match the thread on back of the Proskar anamorphic but is close enough that it fastens on for fixed test purposes. The Cosmicar had been dropped and the end was ruined already so it did not matter. The results onto the smaller format standard 16mm camera frame were not impressive. I did not waste film stock on it.) For the Agus35 test images, the Proskar lens was jigged against the front of the 55mm Nikon lens. It would be interesting to try the AGUS35 into a 16mm motion film camera once all the exposures are worked out. If it was a viable production tool, P+S Technik would have probably already pushed it as an alternative to 35mm motion film. Might extend the life of 16mm film if it was viable?? but I think the generational losses in image quality would kill it off. - Just a thought!! |
Footnote to the above - If you are lucky enough to have the Century Optics or Optex 16:9 anamorphic lenses with the 58mm thread, some 55mm SLR lenses I have run into have a front filter thread which is not rotated when the lens focus is adjusted. The barrel moves back and forth only.
This should enable focus pulls with 16:9 adaptors attached via step-down adaptor rings. The Micro-Nikkor has a 52mm filter thread, the X Fujinon a 49mm filter thread. The SLR lenses may not like the extra weight of the anamorphic lenses on front so these might need to be supported in a sliding sleeve or separately mounted on rods to avoid loading the SLR lens altogether. Various AGUS35 prototypes might be a bit light for anything but rod mounting the anamorphic anyway. Other longer lenses and wide-angles tend to have a front element and filter mount which rotates as the focus is adjusted. Rod-mounting the anamorphic lens is the most practical option. If the anamorphic must be coupled direct to the SLR lens, then mounting a sliding keyway on a rod to secure the handle of the adjustment ring of the anamorphic lens then leaving this ring unlocked to allow the lens body to move freely with the rotating barrel of the main lens would be an alternative. If you have a bayonet-ring style mount as with the Century Optics PD150 model, then life is more difficult. You might at a pinch be able dismantle the lens and have a filter thread machined onto the back of the lens housing and use step rings to fit the SLR lens. This choice would also defeat the adjustment system on the lens and adjustment would be limited to positioning on the threaded mount itself. I don't think I would would want to go there. It is a bit expensive to take those sort of chances with. To make a bayonet style adaptor, for a machinist it's a relatively simple task requiring a piece of metal stock about 74mm in diameter or an alloy pipe flange of some sort providing a sizeable clearance hole to be made in the centre and a shoulder for the filter thread on the SLR lens. |
Agus.
There's two .jpg files of the Proskar Anamorphic 2x in www.dvinfo.net/media/hart They are identifiable by the part filenames "Anamorphic Lens on B" There's also an illustration of a car window mount for a CP16, made from West Coast truck mirror frames and some added steel. When opening this live on-line, you may encounter a white screen and be led to think theres a fault. The image has a lot of white in it. Just pan it around and you'll soon pick up some details. The logo on the mag does not refer to the movie "Kill Bill" but to a union sticker for a labour rally in WA a few years back which reads "Kill the Bill". I shot some S16 film there for historical archive purposes. |
maybe strange idea, but who knows...
i'm far from my camera now and i never tested that...
the "idea" is following- - use chinch cable and connect it on analog video OUTPUT on your camera - connect this cable to certain device (i do not know what to use, but let say this device will do the trick, some programmed IC etc...) which will turn image upside down, and SEND the inverted (upside down) video signal to it's own output - connect s-video cable to that IC device to "output side" of that device - connect that very same s-video cable to the s-video socket on camera (the IC should "say" to the camera to treat that signal as INPUT!) - the same device should send the inverted (upside down) image JUST to the LCD flip screen, not to the camera's recorder. now, what will happened? will we see image upside down - if say IC works ok? anything at all? is this possible at all? camera --> analog video output(chinch)-->"device" (image upside down)---> s-video cable-->s-video as input--->camera's lcd flip monitor please IGNORE my lack of knowledge in electronics. just a thought. filip |
Have made a rough pattern adaptor for the Century Optics 16:9 anamorphic into Micro Nikkor 55mm.
For close-up work it's not going to be all that good under 4 feet away. The combination will not resolve a test pattern vertically and horizontally at the same focus setting on the Micro Nikkor lens. You can get about 450 lines one way or another but not for both. It was however a severe low-light test with everything wide-open. With the prime lens stopped down to about f5.6 things do improve and daylight performance should be better. This is not to criticise the Nikkor or Century Optics products. They were never ever intended to be subjected to this sort of misuse. Has anyone done any post-production experiments for "film-look" with images aquired via the Agus35 system? I suspect these images will need different treatment particularly for sharpness than raw video. Filip. There is nothing wrong with the concept of your idea. Long ago before wall mounts it used to be as simple as turning the tube coils through 180 degrees on a television set when hanging it by its base from an overhead mount. I don't know if any camcorders have the option of outputting and importing video at the same time via the ports you mentioned. This is a matter of somebody with the knowing, to choose components and do the circuit design legwork. Some small LCD monitors have horizontal reversal built in. It might be a lot more difficult but not impossible, for the average homebody to put together, than assembling secondhand lenses, low or no-cost pipe, plastic and hardware bits which have become part of the Agus cost minimisation ethos. I examined turning the CCD array over in the VX2000/PD150 camcorder families. - No good. The module is donkey-trapped with a one-way shape and fastener pattern to protect against incorrect assembly. |
Fresnel Lens source
I ordered my Fresnels from this website they are located in china, but they shipped very fast. http://www.3dlens.com/
Luke |
<<<-- Originally posted by John Gaspain : I found a source for REAL glass CD's!!!....well sorta. My buddy is gonna try and get one for me from a recording studio. Apparently they use glass CD's for master cuts of songs so they last forever called a "Glass Master" I should have more info in a few days.
WOO HOO!! check this out http://www.disctronics.co.uk/technol...rep_master.htm John -->>> turns out that the CD reproduction places have the glass CD's, not the mastering studios, they use it to 'stamp' out thousands of plastic CD's. So I still dont have one. Anybody know a CD reproducer? |
RE: GLASS CD SIZE DISKS.
I have received some info from Ohara in Japan regarding CD sized glass disks for better groundglasses. It is quoted below. Their representative has been a real gentleman, very patient with my dumb enquiries and has steered me towards a product which might suit us. Don't know about the costs yet. Message :- """" Dear Mr. Bob Hart; Thank you for your e-mail. We can put 15mm ID on 120mm Outer Diamater disk. We can provide the thickness of 1.0mm. I would propose we supply the Cut Disks with 1.2 or 1.3mm in thickness so you can finish the disks to be 1.0mm thick after polishing by your hand. It seems Concentricity between ID and OD for accurate spinning is critical for you. Our best specification for the concentricity is 5 micron meters or less. Will this value meet your requirement? Regarding our Material for 3.5" Hard Disk Drive, unfortunately the material is partially crystallized and is not translucent. Therefore I believe you shall make a choice of the material from our regular optical glass line-up. If you are interested in receiving a quotation from us for cut-disks, please let me know the following points: 1. OD (120mm) and ID(15mm) tolerances 2. Prefered thickness and the tolerance of the of the cut disks(Is 1.2 or 1.3mm OK?) 3. OD - ID Concentricity( is 5 Micron Meter or less OK?) 4. Quantity 5. Prefered Glass Type We look forward to hearing from you. Best regards; Hiro Tsuruta, Ohara Inc. """" END OF QUOTE. |
GL1 macro lens
this isnt related to the most popular topic of finding a higher quality cd shaped glass, but I was wondering what macro lens people recomend I buy for my GL1. Which company? Is +7 enough? Is +10 too much? I want something that won't give me significant distortion, but also won't give me vignetting. Once I have this I will finally be able to put together my adapter.
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Image flipping.
Here is a link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3071734060&category=48609 to an lcd monitor that claims to be able to flip image horizontaly or vertically. It must not be that difficult to do electronically as this is just a $70 monitor w/$15 shipping. I know the quality couldn't be much for that price. Also I have no connection with this, just thought it was interesting for those not trying to flip optically in the adapter.
Paul dvdof.com |
chemically treated glass & variable speed
I've been following the thread for some time.
I'm a chemist by trade and have been trying out various etching methods. I think I have a repeatable way to etch glass blanks. I searched the thread but didn't see anyone mention a source of blanks that are CD sized. Any leads? I have an Intel QX3 USB microscope and hope to get some images up as soon as I can find a plastic matte finish stock CD blank for comparison. Also, I have built a variable speed motor controller. Has anyone here tried to vary the speed of the motor. Obviously the faster you spin it the more temporal averaging. I'm just starting to try it out it's controlled with a 5K pot. |
Noah. There's more qualified people than I to comment on macro lenses and some websites and vendors quotes furthur back through this thread.
Between 7x and 10x seems to be the consensus on what works. 7x or a combination of 1x +2x +4x in a stack apparently can be had in common 58mm filter thread (pitch 0.7mm). 10x can as well but so far the lens itself is a lot smaller than the 58mm ring it is built into. My own tests have been with the stacked lenses which comes as 3 lenses in a pouch kit from HOYA. I have also used a lens set out of a telescope eyepiece in a home-made 58mm adaptor. It contains two lenses which have to be assembled in reverse. With the HOYA stack, you have to sit off about 5.5" from the groundglass for the correct framing which is a little awkward to handle. This yields a good flat frame with little distortion but may be soft in the corners. With the telescope lens set, you can go as close as 2" to 2.5" which enabled a close couple of the Agus to the camcorder. The downside with this so far has been significant barrel distortion and soft corners. This lens set has a greater magnification than 10x. Jim Lafferty seems to have arrived at the best combination for his GL1 so keep an eye out for his posts or visit his website which is referred to in several posts on this discussion. He has published a comprehensive how-to which is being continuously updated at -- http://ideaspora.net/agus35/ --. James. One chemical method of frosting the groundglass apparently yields an excellent fine uniform opaque texture in the glass surface according to a local person I have spoken to who works in art glass. I haven't gone into it furthur since I was also told the process requires specialised skills and equipment. I was also counselled that it was potentially dangerous for the average home handyman to try and home-brew without prior training. Appropriately intimidated, I decided to stay with something safe I could control and adjust myself so am playing with the aluminium oxide and the armstrong method for now. Ohara in Japan can supply CD sized disks with 15mm centre hole and 120mm outer diameter. Do you have in mind buying in a batch for participants here who might forward order and doing a small production run of etching? |
thanks for the thoughtful reply
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Noah. I forgot to mention above. Chris the webmaster here has been kind enough to post some Agus35 images for me at -- www.dvinfo.net/media/hart -- There is a test pattern on the bottom of the list for the HOYA stack.
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I have sent a .jpg image with a request for Chris webmaster to post. It demonstrates the Century Optics 16:9 anamorphic - Micro Nikkor 55mm lens combination via Agus35 into PD150. When it goes up it will be listed as filename :-
--- agus35 in16.9+some filmlook.JPG ---- at --- www.dvinfo.net/media/hart ---- The images have also been embellished with post-processing along the lines of the film-look articles published on this site with the exception of the motion blurring and unsharpening thing. The image via this path is soft as it is without need of furthur softening. |
Agus35 for canon xl-1
Hey!
I have been following the development of the Agus35 almost from the beginning. You are all doing a great job! I really want to build one for my Canon XL-1, but I don't know what to do about the macro. I have checked out the Century optics, but with the whole thing mounted the camera it gets too huge and a bad balance. So I was thinking about buying the P+S mount for the XL and attach an AGUS35 to this. (this mount is only the price of two diopters). So towards the question: Do you think that the P+S mount would work with the AGUS35? Do you know of an alternative? PS: Has anyone tried a vibrator from a mobilephone to vibrate the GG?? |
a marithon
great, so now that i have finally ended a 2 week reading of the posts, I now feel ready to make a go at posting myself..
1) movietube: does anyone know anything more about what it can do? (price, focal length, camera model compatibility, etc.) 2) since it is seems impossible to have a definitive model of the agus35, due to the distances of the gg and lens. How is it possible to have a commercial version? All of the cameras are different in their lens size and other factors. the only thing i could come up with, is to have separate models for each of the different cameras, or make it adjustable (yuck). 3) the best way to avoid making the camera look like a Tommy gun is by obtaining/making a box design (instead of "cd holder" round), like the people who made the mini50 prototype. it would be sad to loose such inventive and resourceful filmmakers because of a camera design flaw :( 4) agus, thanks for yours and your fathers (maybe others unnoted) ingenuity. this project has irrupted throughout the entire DV film community, and I hope you are noted somewhere sometime for changing it somehow. Pretty soon, I will make an attempt at my own (albeit-retrograde) version of the mini35/mini50/agus35 based on what I have learned and continue to learn here.. But Agus, since the real agus 35 does not exist yet. Could you send me a copy of the agus35 for free when it comes out? or share in the vasts mounds of loot when you tag that? I mean, whats a dollar compared to several million? Cause, your sitting on a goldmine boy! ;) j/k Just keep in mind that, regardless of the people out there that have the time and technical skills to make their own copies of your design, there are that many more people that simply want to buy one. p.s. i emailed movietube for more info and have yet to receive a response |
P+S Tecknik for their Mini35 would have had to face the same problem of the vast array of camera types and combinations. Getting their groundglass to work would have been the easy part.
Keeping the thing quiet, easily operable, reliable, coming up with the different relay lens combinations, relay lens adaptor combinations, a compact image inverter, a universal base mount, front lens mount combinations, all at a high precision and having them integrate without conflict in a compact functional package is an R & D bill they might well be still recovering, hence the high cost of their product which has a limited market. The Agus35s achieved so far are putting the basic principle in a box, adapting it to a fixed camera type, one's personal own and hanging a single lens mount on the front. P+S Technik are probably quite amused by what has happened so far, possibly impressed by results achieved so early in this alternative evolution. Will they will feel threatened if the Agus35 remains at an enthusiast or hobby level. Probably not, but they will be watching and maybe even learning. They won't be fazed by Agus35 operators doing the occasional wedding vid or budget music clip which is about as far as many will take it. The moment a particular Agus35 evolution moves into being a direct marketplace competitor then their patent attorney's collar can be expected to be let slip. Film-makers having experienced the creative benefit of the appliance via the Agus35s might be more likely to seek the professional level product after they progress to the commercial arena. Reliability, versatility, short set-up times and predictable performance are essential where time and it's efficient management is money and survival. I've mentioned earlier that if the P+S Technik people are smart, they will act like the software people do and market budget shortform kits of the most recent obsolete generation of the core technology for low budget players to become familiar and comfortable with. They may not be big enough players to afford to do this and may be a bunch of enthusiasts like ourselves, albeit now a commercial entity instead of a widely dispersed community enabled by modern communications. It would be interesting to hear their feelings on the Agus35, hopefully in a friendly, colleagial and non-threatening form. |
Im wondering how many people are working on this? I mean we are on page 55 with 824 replies!!! but...
It's kinda funny how we havent moved that far or at all from Agus's first version. The first footage he posted is still fresh in my mind...the smoke rolling off the cigarette then tumbling off into the background fading away, Great clip Agus. I post this because I would like to see everyone start thinking about alternatives to the "plastic rotating GG" which is inherently flawed because its plastic, look towards other options and technolgies. Im currently trying to get a real glass CD from a CD reproducing facility so thats what im working on right now. Im going to start a list of tasks and goals to complete, with everyones help we can tackle this! ok, here we go 1- find a replacement for the plastic GG that is not too expensive (glass, crystal, 35mm camera GG parts?) 2- resolve the Vigneting/hot spot issue (fresnel about works 80%?) ...only 2 goals for now, If you want to add to this just let me know. I will update this every couple of days. DVi Community Rocks!, John |
I've been thinking the same way for awhile. This project has been on my mind a long time before this thread was started and since I just recently found out that other people are trying to make adapters too the design I had been working on has been evolving - seperate from outside input and ideas.
First of alot of the ideas of this thread are starting to point of the way I designed my adapter. But there are some improvements that are being over looked. 1)You'll need a APOCHROMATIC triplet lens in order to properly focus on the "ground glass". 2)There are better than the CD plastic people. Research other materials and learn the characteristics of light and how it reacts to diffusion to figure out the best solution. 3)A fresnel can be replaced by a simple lens. With greater clarity. 4)Argus' design served the purpose of a $20 solution. Think bigger. 5)Panavision anamorphic lens can be used on your adaper to increase the horizontal resolution of your video to near HD standards. 6)Prisms arent needed if you plan on using a seperate small on board LCD screen that can electronically flip and mirror image your video. 7)The same monitor may be able to unsqueeze your anamorphic image so you can preview what your shooting properly as you shoot it. 8)Dont rotate a CD of ground glass. You need to make it more in a overall circular motion. Mini35 newest model changed to work this way. I can keep on going on and on and everything Im telling you here I had to learn or figured out for myself by doing research. Im just saying that we could be doing alot more here. Its long time over due that we greatly evolve the original $20 design. |
John.
I have sent a request to Hiro at Ohara in Japan for a per unit quote on CD sized optical disks with hole in centre for making groundglasses. We have arrived at a glass type which is one of the cheaper lines they have. He will be sending me a small sample for me to try to put the groundglass finish on. Different glasses have different hardnesses and the aluminium oxide which apparently yields the best result may not be hard enough to dress a harder glass. Once this is sorted and some prices quoted we may well have a source for real groundglass disks. The post a few back from a chemist offers some encouragement in possibly being able to produce a better groundglass by chemical etching. I have an anamorphic adaptor mount prototyped and working for the Century Optics 16:9 - Micro Nikkor 55mm SLR lens combination. For this I attempted to construct a how-to for posting as it has applications for other than the AGUS35, but the document ended up being 6mb including .bmp illustrations, and the word processor has saved it but won't re-open it. I might still send the 5 page .pdf text-only I saved and the separate .jpg images to Chris for posting here. It's made out of plumbers plastic bits but is intended as a proving pattern for a metal adaptor to be made later. Regarding the hot spot, if you frame not to the 35mm SLR still-camera gate, but to the smaller 35mm widescreen-movie gate on the groundglass image, (21mm x 11mm approx), stay on f5.6 or wider with the SLR lens, the hot spot mostly goes away except for wideangle lenses like 28mm. I haven't used a fresnel lens and haven't discovered a need to so far. |
Bob,
I really dont think that the PS dudes really give a damn about this project. Maybe tomorrow i will start experimenting with prism to rotate the image. Also...i found something really really cool about prism and mirrors, and that is that you almost dont need a fresnel lens, you can full zoom in, and the camera dont need to enter to macro mode... Make the test just to be sure, and put your dv camera behind your slr camera viefinder and try to zoom in until there is no vigenting and tell me what happens. Also,Even if we havent flip up the image we are getting some amazing footage. I will post it really soon, as we are still shooting this short film, which was the reason the adapter was built. Thanks for all the support Agus Casse |
Agus.
Into the Nikon FM2 viewfinder with the PD150, you get an upright sharp image similar to the fixed groundglass tests I have done. By the time you zoom through to eliminate the vignetting your image area on the SLR groundglass is a little smaller than the size of the 35mm widescreen movie frame. The centre circle on the groundglass fills the camcorder frame. This is the same issue which sent me for the telescope eyepiece lens when adapting the night vision. - Eliminating the vignette causes over-magnification of the centre of the available image through the standard eyepiece because the exit pupil is too small for the camcorder. When zooming through to eliminate the vignette, the image grows faster behind the retreating vignette outline. Smaller camcorders may not have this problem as much as a PD150 or XL1. Maybe a larger prism and eyepiece lens with wider exit pupil would deal with the vignette problem and centre over-enlargement. I know absolutely nothing about prisms so I am of no use on this subject. The resolution from the current Agus35's is as sharp and sometimes sharper than stills I've seen posted from the Mini35 into MiniDV. This may be because there are fewer pieces of glass between the camcorder and groundglass. |
Brett,
I think your gruff insistence that we all need to do some research is a bit off, especially when your post plays like someone who thinks they know it all, and yet refuses to share their findings. Mark that as the first offense of your post -- completely at odds with the spirit of the original design... Then you go on to say such incoherent things as: "2)There are better than the CD plastic people. Research other materials..." Apparently you've overlooked pages upon pages of research in this thread and others where people have done just that. If you've got advice on where we can find a better solution than a plastic CD that is: a) affordable and readily accessible for all here, b) rugged and/or disposable enough as to be field-worthy material, then by all means you've got my attention. "3)A fresnel can be replaced by a simple lens. With greater clarity." Yes. Thanks. We've been through this too. "5)Panavision anamorphic lens can be used on your adaper to increase the horizontal resolution of your video to near HD standards." CCD dictates resolution, not lens dynamics. Are you talking about aspect ratio? And...if you've got access to Panavision lenses, why are you wasting your time with a project that aims to undercut a $7,500 device by building a $30-400 one? I presume you're wealthy enough to go out and get yourself a genuine P&S device...again, contrary to the spirit of the project in the first place (noticing a pattern yet?) ... Maybe when you come back with more information that tempers what appears to be little more than hubris, we'll take your word for it. Until then, Agus's footage looks good enough that I don't feel the need to "think bigger." - jim |
Has anybody yet tried disassembling their camcorder flip-out screen to rotate the LCD screen 180 degrees within its frame?
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Jim I like to start by apologizing for my moment of frustration in my last post. Let me better explain myself. I was reacting to John's comment that after 55 pages and 824 replies we haven't moved too far from the original design. In that moment of shared frustration on how long we have all been working on this versus how much we have progressed I had to agree with him but only to a point. While some people are still tinkering with the original design their are others on this thread that have taken the time to truely understand the chracteristics of optics and how it applies in theory to what we are trying to do here. These are the people that have progressed the adapter to where it is now. I was hoping with my original post that we could ALL get on the same page and move as a group even faster on this project. But while I had good intentions I had the wrong approach so once again I apologize for that.
Anyways as far as more details on the parts I described: 1)APOchromatic triplets lenses (see above post) 2)Ground Glass- as we all know ground glass comes in different grades of texture. Each has their own image projectable characteristics. There is a trade off between image brightness and how much grain is in the glass. There is a point where the grain is so fine that too much of the images' light goes right through the glass and the image starts to appear dark again. Also the hot spot many people are seeing is due to one or a combination of two things. Either they arent using a fresnel/lens to redirect the 35mm lens light STRAIGHT at the ground glass or they are using ground glass of the wrong grain texture. In general the grainer the glass the more is likely to pick up incoming light from more extreme angles (ie wide angle lenses). But even though the ground glass may be moving the camera will still pick up the diffused glowing characteristic in the image so you cant just uses very grainy glass. Acid etching is a old photo glass process and is very promising as it creates a finer texture to the glass. And then you have Bosscreen's out there with no grain because instead of texture glass they use a thin wax solution sandwiched between two pieces of glass. Considering they are 4x5 in size, cant be cut to a smaller size or have a cd hole drilled in the middle and the its possible the wax will melt on hot days (not to mention we would be spinning it at high speed) you can probably guess what will happen. Edmund Scientifc offer something called Halo Diffusers which is currently being research for its grainless properties. And with the grainless glass offered in the MovieTube adapter we now know there is at least one perfect solution out there waiting to be found. Until then its the missing link to the sucess of our adapters. 3)fresnel lens are used with ground glass for the reason above. But for optical systems like were are making we need a more seemless lens then the grooves found in the fresel. There is a reason why camera lenses dont use fresnels. There are however used in SLR viewfinders because they save space, but they trade it in for optical quality. 4)Argus made that first design to mainly prove a point. To prove that it could be done for $20 and with household items but in order to do this with professional results we are going to have incorporate professional optics, parts and materials. So this means its going to cost more but if we are clever about it I dont see it getting over a few hundred dollars to do it right. 5)anamorphic lenses with a 2.35 aspect ratio squeeze the image to fit on a more square like target gate area. When you use these lens with your dv camera your squeezing that projecting image on to you FULL CCD. While if you simply shoot with the cameras letterbox feature your throwing away 1/3 and in this case 1/2 of your cameras possible resolution. BTW you dont have to rent expensive panavision anamorphics to do this. On the low end you can BUY cheap Russian made 35mm anamorphic lenses for next to nothing. They pop up on Ebay often. 6)Prisms vs. LCD screens (see above post) 7)Anamorphic Unsqueeze in LCD (see number 5) 8)The latest version of the P+S Technik Mini35 abandoned the idea of spinning the ground glass disc due to image quality problems and the overall adaper size was too big to accomodate it. Instead they choose to vibrate it in one place a circular motion similar a disc sander. IF we end up not finding "THE grainless glass" and have to move it in some way this is probably are best option. I have a design if anyones interested. Hope that answers your questions. |
Looks great Agus!
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ground glass
I am still working on making ground glass. the first try was with
powder from the glass shop. results were ok . the second try was with glass etching cream. this worked much better the glass shop cut the glass in the shape of a cd . put on the etching cream for about an hour .this was purchased at pearl art supply store the name was -{armour etch} I did not seat the cd on the motor true and I am getting vibration. the glass shop charged me $12 to cut 4 glass cds and I think the etching cream was about $7 .... thanks again to everyone for all the great research |
Robert.
The causing of the entrails of my camera to see the light of day strikes abject fear into my heart lest I break something in the attempt. There may be merit in your idea however. It may be that the display can be rewired for switchable inverted operation. The switching function which occurs when the LCD screens are faced forward may be as simple as contact points or brushes in a swivel base. I don't know the electronic magic but if the reversal occurs by this method, then causing this by an added small switch might be possible. I shall have to study that website with the dismantled VX2000 again. |
Movie Tube
Got this today, thought you all would appreciate it:
"Hello Seth Richter: Thanks for your interest in our 35mm Camera system called MOVIEtube. MOVIEtube will hit the market summer 2004 and will be sold in various kinds. The MOVIEtube product line is providing the same depth of field and angel of view as the 35mm format. Because there is no need to rotate the grain less groundglas, MOVIEtube is providing a sharper image with no hotspot and it is operating without any noise. The patented groundglas provides a almost loss less light transmission- for shooting in artificial light situations and by night. For use in professional productions we developed the MOVIEtube PRO, with professional features known from traditional movie cameras: - A integrated shoulder-set for use on shoulder for living-camera moves - Three WALTERgrip handles for low shots and handheld action - A socket for use with Sony compatible professional viewfinder, to provide a sharp image for controlling the focus. - Equipped with standard Arri connectors for wireless follow-focus, wireless image transmitter and all the other Arri accessories like focus control monitor etc. - Standard video rods for video accessories - 35mm or 16mm rods for connecting matboxes and accessories - 2 Balanced XLR-connectors for connecting professional sound gear To start more cost-conscious with the MOVIEtube product line we are proud to introduce the MOVIEtube LT. The MOVIEtube LT is a small unit with less features than the MOVIEtube PRO, but providing the same Image as the PRO. The MOVIEtube LT is running without electronic power, except the Battery on the DV-Camera. Therefore it is lightweight, small and by the fraction of the cost of a MOVIEtube PRO. MOVIEtube LT can be later upgraded to be a full-blown MOVIEtube PRO unit. The MOVIEtube System accepts Lenses from Panavision, Arri, Nikon, Canon, Minolta, Pentax, Contax! At the moment the MOVIEtube 35mm Camera System is approved for the following cameras:* - Sony PD-100 - Sony PD-150 - Sony VX 1000/2000 - Sony TVR Series - Canon XM2 - Panasonic DVX100 - others will follow! * Approved cameras can be docked directly on the MOVIEtube. No additional relay lenses are needed. Canon XL-1 /s is not supported. At the moment we are not able to quote the exact price for the MOVIEtube PRO and the MOVIEtube LT . For further information please visit frequently our Web Domain http://www.movietube.com it will be online in a few months! A 3D technique section will provide answers for many questions about MOVIEtube. A show room and a user forum are waiting to be visited. Thanks again for your interest! We are receiving huge interest in MOVIEtube from people all around the globe, even though we didn’t start the MOVIEtube sales promotion yet!We would be happy to welcome you as a satisfied MOVIEtube user some day Best Regards JK -Marketing & Sales MOVIEtube-" |
movie tube
The movietube web site seems to indicate that they're able to do all this without spinning or vibrating the ground glass. The use of microcrystalline lens.
I think if we find out how this material is made, or find a similar material, I think we're home. the work being done on the {static adapter thread }looks to be going in that direction. |
Brett,
I appreciate your apologies -- it's rare to find someone online who holds themselves accountable for their words and actions, and fewer still who would ever admit that they could be wrong. However, I think you've got different ideas about the Agus35 than I, and so while I can understand and respect what you're trying to do by "advancing" the design, it runs contrary to what I hold as being most valuable. More clearly, I mean to say that my Agus35 design works from a position of assumed ignorance and poverty -- I don't have the knowledge of optics, the time to obtain such knowledge, and even less, the money to pursue your goals. I'm a working filmmaker, which puts me in a position to assume that these "deficiencies" are true of others like me, and so accessibility and simplicity are my two main design priorities. As an extension of this, I'd suggest that the further you stray from these two guidelines, it's more and more appropriate to say you're endeavoring an entirely different project -- it's the difference between ordering a cheesesteak sandwich and a filet mignon -- both have their ups and downs, and both share certain commonalities, but it would be foolish to argue they're "the same thing." Good luck, though, and I'm looking forward to your findings. - jim |
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