Some folk here may recall me carrying on about an adaptor which uses a lens set out of a telescope eyepiece. It does not make the image upright but it does allow a closer coupling of a 35mm motion film format widescreen size image into a PD150.

Two .pdf files which Chris will be kind enough to post can be found sometime soon at --- www.dvinfo.net/media/hart/ ---- for those who might have a curiosity and interest.

I am not an engineer, so the drawing should be regarded with some cautious contempt. The adaptor however did work in its intended application without any problems.

When installing into the 58mm filter thread on the PD150, extreme care has to be taken to avoid crossthreading as the PD150 housing is plastic and can be very quickly ruined by careless handling.

Additional bracing off the camcorder tripod mount is highly recommended as the PD150 lens enclosure to maincase fixing is simply not robust enough for additional load-bearing on the filter mount.

Bob's latest PDF's now online at www.dvinfo.net/media/hart/ -- cheers,

Devin Doyle
Please email me.Thanx

taylor@moorefilms.com

To Daniel Moloko:
I also thinking about system maded from some old broken SLR photo camera. But when I saw your shots... Of course there are no grain, because there are no detail at all, they are very blurry, and very dim. It looks like an old rewritten VHS record. I hope it is possible to film SLR ground glass in better way because when I'm looking through my SLR camera viewfinder i see crystal clear and sharp image. If I'll fail I'll try to put spinning CD instead of ground glass. Hard to believe, but maybe home maded spinning ground glass from CD really is better solution than hi-quality ground glass from camera.


BTW, some info about fibre solutions:

http://www.us.schott.com/fiberoptics/english/products/healthcare/imagingfiberoptics/fusedcomponents/faceplates.html

First of all for anyone interested I just picked up the Maxell 50 pack that contains the frosted cd at me local Circuit City store. I also saw the same pack at Staples and Office Depot. Its the one with the aqua blue label. Cant wait to try it.

I have a couple of questions regarding the Fresnel lens issue.

1. Is it always neccessary to use the fresnel in the design of the adapter?

2.From the description given by Devin and Spencer regarding their design, am I to understand that the fresnel lens is the same lens used by a typical pocket magnifier. Wouldnt that be the same lens as a magnifying glass?

Thanks for your help
Mike Perkin

Here is a draft of an enquiry I thought I would send to the Schott company referred to above :-

Given that there are a large number of participants in the Agus 35, I thought it might be more appropriate for folks here to have some sort of editorial rights and to correct the intended email where it needs same.

"""
Dear Sir.

I participate in a group at www.dvinfo.net which is workshopping a low-budget 35mm motion picture format adaptor for video camcorders. We currently use transparent CD disks hand finished on one face as a groundglass opaque plane for an image projected from an objective lens. To improve apparent resolution, the disk is spun so that the surface texture moves through the frame faster than the videocamera can resolve it but the projected image remains. There are some resolution and light transmission issues remaining and plastic CD disk surfaces are easily injured.

Could you advise :-

- if you make 120mm outer diameter clear glass disks with 15mm center holes and 1mm to 2mm thicknesses which would spin true which we could hand lap with fine grits to make groundglasses? (There is a Japanese company OHARA which makes such a product, "GD-FHT" for testing computer hard drive read heads but efforts to contact this company have been unsuccessful so far. Their product might be over-engineered for our purposes and out of our affordable price range. An alternative might be computer hard drive glass substrates.)

- if your fibre-optic image display panels function as a groundglass screen to fine groundglass standards?

(The CP16R motion picture camera used a small fibre-optic panel as a viewfinder groundglass screen in the early to mid seventies)?

- if your image display panels can be made to 120mm outer diameters?

- if they can be made with a 15mm diameter centre spindle hole?

- if they are capable of being rotated at speeds up to 3200 RPM without flying to pieces.

(There would be conflict with centrifugal forces on the disk by minor periodic lateral forces introduced by the centre hub across the disk from motor vibrations and greater intermittant lateral forces introduced by operator movements?)

What sort of costs would we be looking at if disks could be made?


It is believed coherent bundles for 180 degree image twisting are not made for diameters of 30mm and that costs would be more than conventional lens paths. Can you advise on this.

Any information you can offer would be greatly appreciated. As a marketplace, this might be a limited one. However if you have a fibre-optic product which exceeds the effectiveness of groundglass as a projection screen, P + S Tecknik in Germany might be a potential market for you if they haven't already evolved something better. They make the professional level MINI35 and PRO35 products comparable to our own more basic projects.

Regards from WA

Bob Hart.

""""

Adding to my earlier post, Chris has posted for me at www.dvinfo.net/media/hart/ some .jpg images of comparative tests of the telescope eyepiece
lenses versus the stack of 1x + 2x + 3x 58mm close-up lenses some folk have been using on the PD150. Lighting conditions were bottom end to get closest to real-world conditions.

The eyepiece tests were improvised by fastening a paper template of a 35mm widescreen gate on a fixed groundglass (microscope slide dressed with 600 grade aluminium oxide) and the objective lens crudely set up on an open jig. Ambient light was falling on the groundglass so there is reduced contrast.

to Ignas Gramba
 

how can u say its looks like VHS?

are u crazy?

what video did you watch?

man, i got it projected to an audience, they went crazy. theres no grain, the definition is the highest for a minidv system. just what i was expecting

have u ever seen the footage from agus 35 with children playing in a park?

that excatly what i got with mine zenit GG. the only diference is that i dont have a spin cd.

by the way, i work in movies, im very used to look at TELECINE 35MM. to me, my footage looks like a Telecine.
besides some of the night shots that dont gave me enough lite to do a good shot.

ciao

to daniel moloko
 

daniel,

is it possible for you to send somewhere full resolution still frames, with no or at least low compression on it?
i think we all wish to see that in as good as possible resolution.

thanks.

filip

One of Daniel's image (first one) is posted here:

http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lou...o+Still+Images

http://www.bobflash.com.br/franquias...merbeachv8.wmv


this is the best video i did with the adaptor

ciao

Daniel, in that second image there seems to be quite a lot of grain, almost as much as using the frosted cd as a static solution.

Anyway, we've completed the second mini50 for my Sony VX2000. It is nearly identical to Devin's, but the box has been cut down to allow the camera to get closer to the GG while still retaining the correct GG to 50mm distance. We found that with our Samigon 58mm +10's that getting closer to the GG and being less zoomed in kills the distortion that Agus had mentioned about our previous test, which can be found here:
www.par-t-com.net/media.html

And the images of the newest adapter are here:

http://par-t-com.net/mini50/wide_side.jpg
http://par-t-com.net/mini50/wide_angle.jpg
http://par-t-com.net/mini50/low_mount.jpg
http://par-t-com.net/mini50/lens_mount.jpg
http://par-t-com.net/mini50/tight_led.jpg
http://par-t-com.net/mini50/top_view.jpg
http://par-t-com.net/mini50/inside_wide.jpg
http://par-t-com.net/mini50/inside_medium.jpg
http://par-t-com.net/mini50/inside_tight.jpg

As you can see, the new adapter also features a niftly little LED to help remind us that the motor is running. Also, I had the mount to a Bogen monopod layin' around after building our steadicam, which sort of makes handheld footage more possible. The image from this new adapter seem to be about perfect, and I hope to get some footage up as soon as I have time (classes just started up again.)

Spencer Houck

Daniel, I saw 2 dark clips from cristmas party, and summerbeach.wmv
All are low quality, maybe it is about compression for internet, but i doubt. I think You didn't catch 100% focus on ground plate.

Lens...anyone on a DVX100?
 

I'm curious ( now that more Agus35s are popping up) -- What type of SLR lens works best for the price. I'm not a big photographer and don't have any lenses lying around-this will be my greatest expense. What size? Anything special I need to look for. I found a couple lenses nearby that I could buy-- fstops as low as 1.8 on one and 2.8 on another. Is there a big difference here? I found one with an "80 mm macro zoom" would this be useful? I'm wanting to put it on a dvx100(A) (that's one more thing I've got to get :))
Is anyone here currently running an Agus on this camera?

Thanks for coping with my ignorace...

Hi Fenn,
I have been following this closely as I have a DVX100 and the issues with this camera is it probably will require a Acromatic Diopter lens (Century Optics make one). I am presently building one for my little Sony TRV 8 as a concept test.

Check out http://www.dvxuser.com/cgi-bin/DVX/Y...num=1070228577

I started a topic specifically relating to this and the DVX.

Let me know how it goes.....

okey ignas.

if u dont know how to look at an image and overlook the internet compression, that not my problem.

i dont have the chance to show you the real stuff without compression, so, forget it. trash as u can.

make something worth and show it here.

the image you may like would look suberb, as u dont like anything that i did. so, im really looking foward to see what u did to fullfill your needs

ciao

DVX100/Lens
 

Thanks Taylor... I guess I'll join the throng experimenting on the DVX. I'd prefer to see someone else who has gotten it to work before I waste my time and money :)
I guess I'll have to boldly explore this new frontier with some uncertainty! This will be a fun task. Sorry for not knowing much on lenses, but I'd like to clarify. The DVX100 has not yet been successfully adapted much because it need some sort of magnification to pick up the gg image. Correct? So another $50-$250 for an acromatic diopter. How about if I get an SLR lens with a "macro zoom". Will this work, or is it a totally different concept. Another problem is, one macro zoom lens I found is at f4.5. I'm guessing that may limit light intake a bit to severely?

Thanks again for the help...

Re: DVX100/Lens
 

I guess I'll have to boldly explore this new frontier with some uncertainty! This will be a fun task. Sorry for not knowing much on lenses, but I'd like to clarify. The DVX100 has not yet been successfully adapted much because it need some sort of magnification to pick up the gg image. Correct?

Yes Correct.

So another $50-$250 for an acromatic diopter. How about if I get an SLR lens with a "macro zoom". Will this work, or is it a totally different concept.

Different Concept as the DVX has to have the diopter attached to it so it can focus on the GG without the device being 5 feet away.

Another problem is, one macro zoom lens I found is at f4.5. I'm guessing that may limit light intake a bit to severely?

Yeah create a standard mount that will take say Pentax lens then start with say a 5omm, as fast as you can get. Then as it develops you can add more lens to your bag.

Lower f number the faster the lens lets light in.

Hope this helps. I know Martin on the DVX user forum is close...but since Christmas has been quiet...Must be building:)

Thanks again for the help... -->>>

So what is the difference between the standard SONY Handycam TRV Lens and a DVX lens? Why will the DVX not focus on something close without the diopter? I'll have to pull my TRV-310 out and do some experimentation. I'm about to buy a 50mm lens on e-bay. Everything else is ready, casing, gg, motor, etc... Thanks...

The achomatic dioptre. Could someone please enlighten this ignorant mind. My solutions so far for getting the PD150 close enough to the groundglass all tend to blur the corners.

I've sent another .jpg to Chris. I reprinted the test pattern on photo paper for crisper lines and ran the two tests again. They were combined in Ulead Photoplus4 at 50% transparency for easier comparison.

The results are intriguing for a camera which claims to resolve at 530 TV lines. The test patterns were small in the frame which should in theory cause the resolution to be on the low side, but make up your own minds on it.

The tests are far from scientific in that they have not been done with the camera and pattern on a frame with accurate centering and the lighting was very low which hopefully reflects real-world conditions.

This image will be at www.dvinfo.net/media/hart/ and is titled testpnew0+5.jpg

As for lenses, the best glass on front for best result. I would favour prime lenses, not zooms which are often not as sharp. You already have the zoom facility in your camcorder which will work a lot better than 35mm zooms through a groundglass. Your chances of getting the backfocus right and keeping it that way for a zoom lens with an improvised mount may not be good.

DVX Lens
 

The difference is the DVX does not have macro lens like the Sony does the DVX's minium focus distance is like 4ft.

Where as the Sony TRV can focus alot closer.

Daniel....
 

Did ever find out what camera that ground glass came from? I'm still interested and would like to give the static way a chance first. Thanks, Corey

I dont think that the frosted cd at high speed produces grain, thats not true, but what you get is lower light perception, and thats even considering thatt we are not yet flipping the image yet.


Hey Daniel,... your adapter rocks !!!!! excellent video and optics !! you got there some treasure.

Got some footage capped with my new mini50 adapter on my Sony VX2000. Check out "Mini50 on VX2k" in the tests section here:
www.par-t-com.net/media.html

I'm pretty sure the distortion is gone, and I'm very happy with the image, hopefully the random shots of my friends playing video games will show enough to prove it. ;)

Thanks again everyone on this crazy-huge thread!

Spencer Houck

Spencer. Is there any chance of getting a frame grab from your Mini50 as a .jpg file up somewhere, maybe even here. Chris has been putting my tests up here so would probably be no problem if you request putting it in with my lot.

Landline speed here is as slow as 752 bytes per second so meaningful Quicktime just is not an option.

I'd like to see if the Samigon is good into the corners as my options are not so good.

I am in the process of redesigning my adapter. I posted a couple of questions regarding the fresnel len. I didnt get any response so I'll try posting the question again.

1. Is it always neccessary to use the fresnel in the design of the adapter?

2.From the description given by Devin and Spencer regarding their design, am I to understand that the fresnel lens is the same lens used by a typical pocket magnifier. Wouldnt that be the same lens as a magnifying glass?

Thanks for your help
Mike Perkin

Bob, Spencer and I worked together on both adapters so maybe I can shed some light on the Samigon adapter. First of all, let me post 2 pictures of our adapters:

- the first model for my GL1 http://www.par-t-com.net/mini50_wide.JPG
- the second model for Spence's VX2k http://www.par-t-com.net/mini50/wide_side.jpg

If you watch the test below the one that Spencer just posted on our media page http://www.par-t-com.net/media.html entitled "Completed Mini50 (w/ ground glass)" you'll see that there's distortion in the corners due to the samigon +10 macro. Spencer's new test has no distortion using the same filter. How? The boxes vary in size. Since mine is a bit longer you must move more towards the telephoto end (zoom in) and therefore distortion is introduced. Since Spencer's box is smaller, and the image is projected no further than 1/2" away from the lens, little zooming is necessary. I returned my Samigon and ordered a +10 macro that had glass covering the whole 58mm diameter, not just 40mm or however much the Samigon does. Hopefully this will correct the distortion on my end. +10 adapters generally do introduce distortion, it's just a matter of getting around it. So, if you're interested in the Samigon, build a shallower box. I think overall it's a better image when all the optics are as close as possible, but then you run the risk of not having enough room to adjust everything. I'll keep you posted on which macro I end up using.

new producer of frosted CD!!!!
 

hi there,

i just bought a pack of 25 CDs produced by (unknown for me, never saw it before) company named MSONIC, from Taiwan.

on the top side of the disk is written:
48x
80min/700Mb
CD-R
Silver-Silver
price (at least in poland for 25pcs approx 4$)

and here is GOOD PART!

there are TWO frosted disk in this pack. One on the top, and one at the bottom. for me they are identical to MAxell ones. (i have one maxell's)
i sent to taylor my pics of it. i beleive the link will follow soon.
i bought it in "Geant" hypermarket (the french supermarket chain common in Poland, where i live).

maybe this will helps someone.

Filips Frosted CD's
 

Here the link to the frosted CD's and pkging.

www.moorefilms.com/frosted.htm

Spencer, Awesome job. Footage looks great!!!!
Three things:

1. Are you getting pulsing when you rack forcus? Meaning is there a slight image shift....when going between 2 different focal planes.

2. Really want to see some exterior day shots.


3. What is the diameter of your and Devins lens. As the DVX is 72mm and I might have problems getting this rig to be workable.

Thanks, and to answer:
1. Yeah, there is some "breathing"(i think thats what it's called) when shifting focus, things in different planes grow or shrink, but thats due to it being a still photo lens not meant for racking while recording. Real 35 mm film lenses have complex systems to fix that.

2. We'll try to shoot some exteriors with good light, may take a bit, seeing as it "feels like" -1°F outside.

3. Devin's GL1, and my VX2000 both have 58mm threads.

Spencer Houck

<<<-- Originally posted by Mike Perkin :
2.From the description given by Devin and Spencer regarding their design, am I to understand that the fresnel lens is the same lens used by a typical pocket magnifier. Wouldnt that be the same lens as a magnifying glass?
>>>

I was about to say no, but stopped myself. From my (limited) understanding of optics, fresnel lenses are designed to spread out light. Upon further thought, that's what a convex lense seems to do, too.

The advantage of a fresnel lens (and why they were first made) is that they weight less and are much thinner than a regular lens.

Anyone experiment with a regular magnifying glass? I'll see if I can dig one up today.

Ryan

Latest image from Bob Hart:

http://www.dvinfo.net/media/hart/testpnew0+5.JPG

Bob says: Here's another .jpg for the album. I printed another cleaner copy of the
test pattern on photo paper for crisper lines and ran the comparative tst
again. The result is intriguing and confounding at the same time.


It is framed smaller than a test pattern would be therefore the resolution
must in theory at least be lower. But it seems to be up there at around 600
lines horizontal. The Agus image which is the one beneath also seems to have
less stepladdering on diagonal lines than the image direct into the PD150.
It seems the softer image rules. Setting the sharpness on the PD150 might
achieve the same result. The tests are far from scientific as the shots are
in low light and the camera and test pattern not mounted to a common frame."

I'm almost done building mine and am ready to buy a new lens for this. The one I've been using really sucks. Please can anyone one suggest a decent lens to look at for around $200.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

Well if you buy used you wont' have to spend anywhere near $200.

I would go with a Nikon len, 1.2 0r 1.4 as fast as you can get.

I really want to jump into this... but I think i'm going to wait until someone has some schematics and a solid design. Great job guys! Spencer your footage really looks promising. Could you maybe post some pictures of the Agus50 for the GL1? I have a GL2 and I'm just wondering how to go about making one if I come across some money soon. Thanks! great job!

-Kay

Curt, we posted pics earlier in the thread. However, Paul Doss was nice enough to copy that post and pics over to his webspace. Visit http://www.thecountrybulletin.com/new_page_14.htm.

GG from an old Zenit vibrate?
 

Hey i was reading a lot on this subject. I have been navigating through all of the 48 pages and i have noticed Daniel's posts where he talked about the gg from an old Zenit camera. I also noticed some one mentioning the soundless brushless vibrating motor. Since i know nothing about motors and not much at all about ground plates i am wondering if anyone knows how to make the "brushless soundless motor" work say with an old GG from the Zenit camera. Guys i own one of those cams they are 70s model of a Zenit B! ( i bet after this post you won't be able to find it on ebay ha). From Daniel's pictures of his model the adaptor is incredibly small and sturdy looking. I am not really that technical, anyone want to contribute some ideas?

here is another test video of mine

www.metafilms.net/upload_files/agus35.avi about 1.3mb

and guess my setup

<<<-- Originally posted by Bob Hart : Spencer. Is there any chance of getting a frame grab from your Mini50 as a .jpg file up somewhere, maybe even here. Chris has been putting my tests up here so would probably be no problem if you request putting it in with my lot.

Landline speed here is as slow as 752 bytes per second so meaningful Quicktime just is not an option.

I'd like to see if the Samigon is good into the corners as my options are not so good. -->>>

Hey Bob, sorry for taking so long for this.

Screen grabs from mini50 test on VX2000(in a relatively dark room):

www.par-t-com.net/mini50/grab1.jpg
www.par-t-com.net/mini50/grab2.jpg
www.par-t-com.net/mini50/grab3.jpg
www.par-t-com.net/mini50/grab4.jpg

These grabs are after I used Premiere Pro's color corrector, which introduced some grain to the pics, but I think you can get the picture. Notice that there is just a slight bit of vignette, but with a 16:9 crop in combonation with safe margins, it does what we want.

The test can be found here: www.par-t-com.net/media.html

Spencer Houck