Vendible Book,

i noticed some plans you posted earlier, but they don't make much sense and the picture is a bit small to study properly, is there anyway you could label what goes in and where from a few different angles, with bigger pictures so i can see how it is working?

Thankyou,

zac

If people want to go the non-moving groundglass route, then medium format objective lenses onto a larger fixed forsted glass might be the way to go., ie., bigger format bigger groundglass, smaller grain defects across the image.

It may be feasable to use the whole of a secondhand medium format camera or modify it to mount the small camcorder.

Re: the credit -- of course, man!

Re: the shaking image -- that's a design problem that will be overcome when I build and mount my rail system. For the moment, the adapter is "free-standing," attached to the front of my GL1 with a piece of rubber coupling and an adjustable metal strip that tightens around the lens housing. While the weight is nice and it keeps the adapter tight to the front of the camera, the rubber has enough give as to shake when I make any adjustments to the film lens...

Any tips on where you got the parts for your rail setup? I really like the curved handle you put in place...but the overall design is nicely simple and effective.

- jim

Hey Jim, do you have some pics to share? I too have a xm2 and would like to see your setup being that we have the same camera. Thanks

Perhaps we should separate this thread to continue the progress about the agus35, and make a new one for the new vendi35

Charles:

I've got pics up but they're hardly conclusive:


http://ideaspora.net/agus35/front.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/rear.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/motor.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/assembled.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/motordetail.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/sanded.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/finished.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/finishedmount.jpg

http://ideaspora.net/agus35/finishedrear.jpg



I will have tutorial up by the second week of January.

- jim

Thanks Jim. Looks pretty neat :)

To those who have completed their systems: what type/power macro lenses do you use? I know some have used the macro portion of their WA adapters, but some must be using regular macro/close-up filters. What power are you using? Can you zoom through these a bit and still pull focus on the projected image? Since this is the only portion of the project that involves purchasing a legitimate piece of equipment I'd like to be well informed about what works. I'd like this thing to be as compact as possible. Thanks!

this is just a thought but would the material they use for rear projection TV's work for the static solution? same principle something is projected onto it from the rear and you see it on the other side. might not pass enought light thru though for this application.

Now if anyone has acess to some of this material it might be worth a try

oh yea, I just had to say:

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/positive10.jpg

gg from zenith 50`s
 

hello people.!

Vendi, you are wrong about NO GROUND GLASS that provides a good static solution.

I went to a used photo cam store and i found a cam by ZENITH that has a GROUND GLASS with a DIFUSING (fresnel?, im a brazilian, here we call it `lente difusora`)

lens attached behind it!

man, IT REALLY WORKS >expletive removed< GREAT

the GG was made 40 years ago. is perfect, besides only a scratch that i dont notice everytime.

and the grain is very little, it only adds a more film look aspect.

no vignette, no nothing, cause the DIFUSING LENS behind it just EXPAND the lens image to the WHOLE GROUND GLASS!!

if you tell me where to send the video i made (without the things adapted to a box), i will upload right now.

CIAO

Hey Daniel,
If you want to send the video to me I can post on my site.
Can you also take photos of your rig and post them.

Just an idea.
taylor@moorefilms.com

ZENITH GROUND GLASS
 

...AH, the man who selled me, said that its almost impossible to find one of those these days!!!!
i bought it for 10$ .

NONE of others photo cams ground glasses is the same CLEAN as this one.

scratch my rear projection Idea all they use is a fresnal no acutal screen. looking back on what daniel discoverd though maybe we should take a ground glass and a fresnal sandwitched together?

"the grain is very little, it only adds a more film look aspect."

I said that no GG will work for high quality. You saw the grain, and I know exactly what you saw.

To me it only produces ok results. Try move the camera and have objects move in front of it, also try different light angles. The grain is certainly not film like, the grains are static, makes it look like it's shooting behind a glass (which is true).

If you scale your video to smaller size, this works fine, because the grain will be averaged out and not as visible. But for real things like DVD, or indy film, higher quality is needed. But again, Super fine GG will produce ok results, just not great. If you think it's good enough, then it's good enough.

If you want to produce an upright image, take a look at my design, better yet, improve it.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=18690

pff
 

I said that its very little.

i know that im talking about.

i cant see no grain even when the lens projected image is not covered from light, i dont see any grain at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i put this on the tv, and no grain, and the test was even without a cover.

i can show you the footage.

by the way, have you ever tried to use a real photocam ground glass?

man, ZENITH is RUSSIAN COMPANY, they know it all.

ciao

Re: ZENITH GROUND GLASS
 

<<<-- Originally posted by Daniel Moloko : ...AH, the man who selled me, said that its almost impossible to find one of those these days!!!!
i bought it for 10$ .

NONE of others photo cams ground glasses is the same CLEAN as this one. -->>>

daniel,

i didn't tried it yet, but here in poland you can find TONS of that ZENIT (wthout "H") - if this is the same producer - this was USSR 35mm still camera. Are we are talking about the same thing? What camera (type/model) you have?

if you find it interesting - (the zenit ground glass) - i can check here and there and maybe send it where needed. i'm sure that you can find here zenit in proper working condition - the whole photo camera (WITH the lens) for 15-20$ max (which means that theoretically GG will cost much, much less).

so, if yo buy the whole camera - you can use the GG and experiment with the rest - the lens, maybe also pentaprism - who knows. but i'm not sure about packing and transport fees...
anyhow - at least you can try.
is it possible to find somewhere your tests with that ZENIT GG?

filip

Here are a few Zenit links:

http://www.rugift.com/photocameras/zenit_cameras.htm

http://www.btinternet.com/~stowupland/index.htm

http://www.rus-camera.com/camera.php...t&camera=zenit

a ball inside
 

it not a new zenith camera.

it was from an old zenith, 50's

the seller told me that those flat ground glass (with no grain) is almost impossible to find these days cause all the cameras are with the same glasses but the flat ground glass is marked with something, like a ball inside it.

ciao

Hi Daniel,

How is it spelled on your camera?

Is it spelled like "Z-E-N-I-T-H"? (with an "H" at the end?)

OR is it spelled like "Z-E-N-I-T"? (with NO "H" at the end?)

- don

i dont have the camera anymore, just the ground glass

i think is zenit, only.

Taylor Moore said that was going to put the pic of it on his web site

Video from Daniel Moloko

Here is Daniels link
www.moorefilms.com/daniel.htm

about the teste
 

about the test:

it was just for you people to take a look at the ground glass.

and i just put it on the front of the lens i got. it doesnt grain.

anyway, i think its better than the AGUS rotating project cause the fresnel attached just does everything i need - no vignetting.

and if u think it is still graining, i say that it may be graining, but just as much as the spinning frosted CD.

zenit - which?
 

daniel,

do yo remember which model was that one you took the ground glass from? i mean not the year, but type... ZENIT E, ZENIT B... or other?

(i do not know if this is clear enough, english is not my native language. to be honest it's my fifth)

filip

Am I the only one thinking the non moving GG is great in concept but will not work in execution?

i think it would be awesome if it didn't move. then you woudnt need that big ugly cd spindle+motor. but, can some1 take a pic of their ground glass? i used 400 gritt and cannot see clearly through it so i am wondering how the camera would get a clear picture?

ground glass substitues
 

Might be of some help:

http://lists.kjsl.com/pipermail/acg/...er/000639.html

Someone talking about ground glass and substitutes he has tried (for making cameras).

Quote:

"I have used frosted acrylic film purchase in a tablet of about 25 sheets from an art supply store. This is intended for Ink Drawing and is frosted on one side only. It produces excellent images. It is available in different thickness. I happened to like 0.005" inch thick. In-fact I will be using the thicker sheets and plain clear-glass to replace the view-screen on a TLR I have been completely restoring. The plain glass will be on the outside to allow durability."


I haven't tried this as I am still waiting for a few parts, however, it may be a viable alternative to the sanding.


Best,
Von

"Am I the only one thinking the non moving GG is great in concept but will not work in execution?"

There are materials beyond ground glass and spinning cds. Don't be hasty, I have something in mind and as far as I can tell, it would be perfect for this application. But it's not something you can find in Walmart.

"i used 400 gritt and cannot see clearly through it"

400 grit? You'll see something better when it's over 1000 grit, and don't use sand papers, they only mess things up. Use these aluminium oxide dusts. But I can tell you that I have tried and it only gives ok result. For high quality, you need something more special.

For what it is worth, you may find the following Optics FAQ handy:
http://www.edmundoptics.com/TechSupport/optics.cfm

Optics:
http://www.edmundoptics.com/IOD/Browse.cfm?catid=10

Fresnel Lenses:
http://www.edmundoptics.com/IOD/Disp...Productid=2039

this looks very familiar
http://www.edmundoptics.com/IOD/Disp...productid=1966

T-Mount Adaptors (hmmmm...):
http://www.edmundoptics.com/IOD/Disp...productid=1460

More Lens Adaptors:
http://www.edmundoptics.com/IOD/Disp...productid=1459

Video Lenses?:
http://www.edmundoptics.com/Catalog/Custom/218.cfm

Cool!!!:
http://www.nightowloptics.com/addfra...product=NOCA42

- don

HEYYYY eletric shavers motor
 

Maybe i found a solution.

i was thinking about a MOVING SYSTEM MOTOR that can vibrate something while not spining it. (i have a ground glass thats like a 16x9 screen)

so, have u ever seen the system of a ELETRIC SHAVER?????

the eletric shaver can vibrate doing a moviment from left to right, left right, really fast so that the shavers knifes (lamines? dont know the english words for it) vibrate till then dissapear...thats just what we need, remember???????????


when we are going to try it???

ciao

Here are Filips Penta Prism Pix

www.moorefilms.com/prism.htm

I don't understand why a concave lense just can't be used.

An optomistrist could make one, the quality would be excellent, it would cause no distortion and of course would totally invert the image. These types of things could be places just behind the lens mount, flip the image and bang directly onto the ground glass. Suddenly you would have a very small device.


Zac

why waste time trying to invert the image recorded?

only needs to invert the display image, from the lcd.

anyway, lets try to make a motor function that do not spin like a cd and vibrates a ground glass. thats all


ciao

I for one, would like my image to be coming it correctly from the start to stop be stuffing around with it too much in post, i feel it is important.
Zac

I do believe that someone had tried using a shaver motor instead of a rotary motor and it was the noisiest thing to listen to... It was a nice, novel idea by Cosmin (Cosmin35?), but noisy: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...3790#post73790

You'd be better off using a miniature DC brushless motor with the proper tourque rating - it will be probably be almost completely noiseless.

You are making too many compromises by not inverting the image inside the adaptor with a corrective prism (or something like that). If you look at the links I left from Edmund Optics, you'll find the prices are extremely affordable. Read the Optics FAQ if you are unsure of what you need.

- don

<<<-- Originally posted by Zac Stein : I don't understand why a concave lense just can't be used.

An optomistrist could make one, the quality would be excellent, it would cause no distortion and of course would totally invert the image. These types of things could be places just behind the lens mount, flip the image and bang directly onto the ground glass. Suddenly you would have a very small device.


Zac -->>>

It's not as simple as it sounds. You must calculate the focal point correctly to make proper size of the image. You must put the new lens out of the 50mm focal plane of the 35mm lens, plus the focal distance of the new lens itself, and the GG is going to be far away from this new lens. You are going to have a very long adapter.

Etched Glass
 

I found a company here that can make acid etched round glass for a very reasonble cost. I am in California. It is not perfectly circular but I plan to spin it at about 100 rpm. I won't be working on it until I get back from Christmas.

If anyone is interested in buying one let me know and I will take your order. I am not a shipping house but I suppose I could figure out how to get it to you.

One more thing, the quality of the etching isn't perfect either but it makes a very nice image.

you can email me at ckalan1@netzero.net or call me at 714 538-2484

I have finished my Agus35! The CD motor is really noisy (I don't think I have it balanced). And, I get lots of Flickering, but no vignetting. And, for some reason, I can't focus on things more than about 4 feet away??? I do not have a fresnel lens installed, but the DOF is better than the tests I did without the spinning CD. I used 1000 grit paper and sanded in one motion across the disk (I don't know if this is the recommended way?). Haven't tested in the light of day yet, so don't know the real abilities. Anyonen have comments? I will try to get some footage tomorrow that is acceptable to post...until then, let me know of any improvements I can make...thanks in advance!

Clay

J. Clayton,

you are in the babies step yet, you have some problems with the distance from the SLR lens and the GG seens like it is too close or too far (my best guess is too close) the flickering is cause you probably didnt use a discman piece or it isnt well fitted, also remember that no all cds are perfectly straight some of them are bended a little.


About the shave machine and making this to vibrate... that is not a good solution, the noise is really high and you just cant get good results with it. if you are making this homebuilt the cd option is the simple and more effective way... and cheaper. And simplier to build.



BTW for everybody interested in the comercial version, i got some news... i got the prism and i can find more real cheap :) ... thanks to Guatemala cheap market.

heheheh no more info for now until i have some real pictures of this new baby. Also we are still working now in making an universal lens adapter. We have some ideas so stay tunned.

Hi Guys

I made a mock up last night using a 35m lens, a cardboard box and a piece of 6x4" satin glass (4mm) that I just shoved through 2 sides.

When I put my Sony DCR-TRV16e into the box and output the picture onto my 32" tv, the quality was great. I didn't notice any grain and had little to no vignetting and I also couldn't see a light spot. The TV probably masked what little grain there was. The camera was attached to the box using a 30-37mm step up ring connected to the Cokin A series adapter ring which was drilled and screwed onto the box.

I'm going to play with it over Xmas and see how much grain there is when I view the video on my pc and then blow it up using Spline pro. If there is very little grain then I will put the project in a 4x4" box. I'm going to try some thinner satin glass to see if that yields a better quality image.

Regards

Terry