Does anybody know if it's possible to get the 24p sequence out of an editing system onto 24p HD tape? Could you export OMFs or Quicktimes?

It seems even the DVX200 is designed for 1080/60i.

It would be nice to have a 24p master for a film output option.

Anybody experienced in film outs from the DVX?

The DVX can do a pretty good blowup from 480/24 up to 720/24. I've done sample blowups using PhotoZoom Pro software and was quite impressed with the results.

Pushing it to 1080/24 was not satisfactory, but up to 720 looked pretty good.

I've blown DVX footage up to 35mm film. The footage is on DVFilm.com's demo reel, which you can request from them for screening in your own town's theater. Overall, the results were decent to excellent, depending on where you were sitting in the theater. If you were up close to the front, the results were pretty good, but not outstanding... definitely way, WAY better than "28 Days Later" or "Open Water", but not gonna fool anyone into thinking you'd shot on 35! But sitting in the back of the theater, the image looked fantastic. Easily could pass for Super16.

Thanks for the reply! Very helpful info. I'll check out the DVFilm website.

I've got to respectfully disagree with you, Barry. I've seen "28 Days Later" many times, including at the theater. I just watched it last night on HBO. I think it's the best looking mini DV movie I've ever seen. Yeah, it has a edge enhancement look about it but it looks surprising better the DVX shot, "Murderball", which IMHO looks like hell.

Peace.

Uhh... yeah... 28 Days Later and Open Water are not even close. The muted colors on 28 Days Later were intentional and the print I saw looked better than any DVX blow up I have seen...


ash =o)

I don't know what to tell you -- I saw 28 Days Later in the theater and thought it looked awful awful awful. I'm sure on DVD it looks fantastic, but on the big screen it was horribly soft and grainy and edge-enhanced.

I thought it was completely unacceptable, and really distracted from the experience. Granted they wanted a certain look, but it was rough to watch.

It also depends on where you sit in the theater -- if you were towards the back, everything looks much better than if you're closer to the front...

Hrrmmm... there were 2 master prints made of that... maybe 3... I saw the later one with the different ending and it looked terrific. Most people I saw it with thought it was shot on 16mm with some DV mixed in. Open Water was CLEARLY DV the entire time... The best SD bumps I have seen have come from the XL2... 24P DVX stuff can look quite good. Going to film is a whole other animal and requires preparation and execution every step of the way...



ash =o)

Didn't you get a little stair-stepping on diagonals when you used PhotoZoom Pro, Barry? I seem to recall it was mild and the picture otherwise looked great -- better then the HD10, in fact.

Okay, i have a small problem.

I have been shooting a series with the dv100, and normally i use the regular 24p shooting mode--however, in one instance, someone else decided to shoot in the 24p Advanced mode. This wouldnt be so bad if i knew which footage had been shot in that mode! 90% of the material is shot using the standard 24p mode but there is some footage that needs to be digitized that is 24pA and i have no idea which footage it is.

So my question then is: is there anyway of knowing when you have to digitize whether footage is 24p or 24pA? Is there any kind of in-camera display that will let you know? Is there any way of checking to see if the framerate is 24fps?

The footage i think is being digitized into adobe premier; i know FCP has some kind of built in detection plug-in but i dont think Premier does.

and then once i know which has been shot using 24p and 24pA, how is it possible to mix the footage? Would the 24pA footage have to be converted to 29.97?

I don't know how FCP or Premiere handle the pulldown. In Sony Vegas software it's completely transparent -- it doesn't matter whether you shot 24p or 24pa, the software removes the pulldown on the fly and you can freely mix & match both modes; it makes no difference. I believe FCP makes you pre-process the file to remove pulldown. Don't know how Premiere does it.

As for determining which is which; there are two ways. One, if you have the camera original tapes, you can tell when playing it back -- toggle the COUNTER button a few times and you'll see it changes from timecode to a counter to a frame rate display -- it'll print "24P" or "24PA" on the screen.

If you've already digitized the footage, the way to tell is to single-step through five frames. If you see three sharp progressive frames followed by two interlaced frames, then it's 24P mode. If you see four sharp progressive frames followed by one interlaced frame, then it's 24PA.

We shot some footage on 24p and then subsequently shot the rest of our feature in 24pa. We captured the 24pa with the pulldown, and are now working on a 23.98 timeline. What's the best way to bring the standard 24p footage into the workflow?

Thanks,

arne

ok....i'm not sure what the hell is going on here..when i'm shooting at 24p i get lots of ghosting when i pan around or zoom in and out on a moving subject..etc....i havent reset the camera yet to original settings ..but i also havnt played with 24p setting much either..so yah...
does anyone know what could be going on here....i recently taped an event and it turned out like $hit....

i dont know if its just my eye..or maybe i'm expecting more..but there is just a ton of interlacing and ghosting especially when up close to the television....bah.....this is frustrating


*so it turns out my tv sux ...i just cheked the footage on antoher telly and it seems to be ok....but still i gues with 24p u cant really whip pan and zoom cuz it'll turn out not to good

If you're running a Mac system you could use Cinema Tools to perform a Reverse Telecine on the 24P standard clips and then import the reversed clips into FCP and cut away!

Yeah, it depends on what editor you're using. If you're using Vegas, you can freely intermix 24p and 24pa footage without doing anything different, or needing to do any pulldown removal, etc.

lots of lookers but no replys..hmmm

ok....i'm not sure what the hell is going on here..when i'm shooting at 24p i get lots of ghosting when i pan around or zoom in and out on a moving subject..etc....i havent reset the camera yet to original settings ..but i also havnt played with 24p setting much either..so yah...
does anyone know what could be going on here....i recently taped an event and it turned out like $hit....

i dont know if its just my eye..or maybe i'm expecting more..but there is just a ton of interlacing and ghosting especially when up close to the television....bah.....this is frustrating


*so it turns out my tv sux ...i just cheked the footage on antoher telly and it seems to be ok....but still i gues with 24p u cant really whip pan and zoom cuz it'll turn out not to good


Dear Saturnin,

I have read that the DVX-100A has a tendandcy to GHOST in 24p. And you should expect the fluttering when shooting in 24p. I've no experience with this but I've read other posts that address the issues of posting 24p on the web. Good luck. I'm right there with you buddy..... not sure what the hell is going on either.


Steph

yah...the thing is ....looking at footage on your pc screen is fine..cuz it looks damn good...i've seen tone of videos that are shot on 24p with 1/250 shutter and it looks pretty nice..but now i wonder how it all looks on the television?
hmmm
i gotta do more tests.....

Hey Guys,
On set my finger or when handeling the camera changed the scene file dial to f5 from f6 and shot 24p accidentally. Most of my footage is 24pa but there is some places where it has happened but I dunno where. Is there any way I can check to see which parts are 24p. Im capturing into final cut pro with the advanced pulldown preset so it's removing the pulldown while capturung. I am worried about the parts that were shot with 24p, what will happen when it gets to those parts. I know about one specific part that was 24p but Im sure it has happened a couple of times during shooting and I need some way to know where they are.

Thanks

You can easily tell which mode the footage was shot in, assuming you have the original tape (which I presume you do, since you're digitizing from it!)

Just play it back in the DVX, and cycle through the "counter" button options -- one of the options displays the frame rate it was shot at, and it'll either say "24P" or "24PA". Using that you can tell exactly where the switch took place.

Thanks Barry I didn't think of that!!!
You are the man!!

-Gev

I currently edit on premiere pro 1.0 not 1.5 and haven't been able to find out much about it's 24p support vs. premiere pro 1.5. Im ordering a dvx100a sometime early next week and need to know If im going to have to update my software as well. So any information on this would be greatly appreciated, does 1.0 support 24p advanced?...just 24p? or neither? again,thank you for any information on this at all.


I also was wondering if it will be able to do a real 24p timeline so If I put 30p footage into it it would be slowed down a little? I shoot action sports often and was hoping to be able to add 30p footage into the timeline to get a little true slow motion.



-Jake

Support for 24p was added with 1.5. Your footage will still play in 1.0 or any other NLE for that matter. You just won't be able to remove the pulldown from the footage. All this means is that you won't be able to output a true 24p sequence for say, a filmout (which isn't likely anyway), or do a true 24p DVD. Again, probably isn't a biggy.

I suggest you shoot in 24p Normal rather than 24p Advanced so that the pulldown cadence looks right. Use of 24pa is more appropriate for the conditions above for technical reasons I won't go into.

If I shoot footage in 24p regular (what I planned on) and start a project with that footage then add in 30p footage will the 30p footage be slowed down and playback at 24fps?...can you do this in premiere pro 1.5 if not 1.0?

thanks

Jake

Yes. Shouldn't be a problem mixing the two. Premiere will not affect any speed changes. Panasonic 24p is actually 29.97 (with the pulldown added), so the frame rate is identical to 30p (which is also actually 29.97). You could also add 60i to the project. Each of the 3 will have a distinct look though.

In fact, Premiere 1.5 has a limitation right now in that it removes the pulldown from 24p material whether you want it to or not. If you're going to mix video types you would be better off with 1.0!

See the thing is I wanted it to slow it down, read orginal post, when I shoot action sports Its nice to mix the slightly slowed down footage with the real time stuff. So if I used 1.5 It would slow it down? getting smooth true slow motion with no resolution loss would be really nice even if it is just a little bit
slower...although 20% slower is actually pretty good.

thanks


-Jake

What you want to do is possible; I just don't know if it can be done in Premiere Pro. Hopefully someone will weigh in who's done it. In Vegas it's very easy -- just drop the 30p clip into a 24p timeline, right-click it and select "playback rate: 0.80" (for 80% speed). Then you get frame-accurate fillm-style slow motion, and it delivers a quite nice slow-mo effect.

Dropping your 30p clip into 24p timeline will not automatically slow it down (which is what I meant by "Premiere will not affect any speed changes"). I should have added the word "automatically". That's what you implied in your question.

Like Barry suggests, to get good slo-mo, shoot that material in 30p and slow it down to 80%. Any version of Premiere can do slo-mo easily. In this case 80% is the magic number for the highest quality from 30p footage. Of course, you could select any other percentage but it won't be as smooth. It may or may not require rendering. BTW, non-realtime previews in Premiere are low res, so don't be alarmed. Once it's rendered, WYSIWYG.

Oh, and I'll plug Barry's book while I'm at it! Worthwhile purchase if you haven't already done so.

I wouldnt consider droping speed of a clip in premiere...its horrible its uses tons of frame blending and just looks bad...but yea 80% is the number I guess


-thanks alot.

Hi all,

I have a Panasonic DVX-100A and would have posted this question on that forum but there doesn't seem to be alot of activity there. So thought I would throw this out to all of you brainiacs and see if someone could help.

I have a director that wants to shoot in 24p for a youth Diabetes walk tomorrow. Having never used 24p, I tried to dissuade her because of the smearing problem I have read about on this site, but in reality I was trying to get her to change her mind because of my lack of experience with this format. Uh-oh.....

That confession made, I now need to know anything and everything you men and women are willing to take the time to share. I'm sure I can set the menu to record in 24p but are there any other recording issues I should be aware of? How to control the smearing on pans? Do I need to try and hold hand-held shots even more steadily because of the flutter? Please alert me to everything I might not know, which is embarrassingly, everything. Sorry for the huge request. My bad for not researching this earlier, but I just found out about this 24p assignment today.....

THANK YOU SO MUCH IN ADVANCE,

Steph

Hi Steph,

Start here:
http://www.adamwilt.com/24p/index.html
After that, there's not much else to say - it's that good.

Good luck.

Hi Steph,

Start here:
http://www.adamwilt.com/24p/index.html
After that, there's not much else to say - it's that good.

Good luck.


Thank you so much for the reply, Jack.

I'll try the link you suggested now.

Thanks again,

Steph

Hi Stephanie,

I stumbled upon this thread you might find useful in a pinch:

http://www.uemforums.com/2pop/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=6495&Main=6466

Hope it helps a little & best of luck with your shoot!

~Mike

Really, it's not a big bear....you can shoot pretty loosely with 24p and not have any glaringly obvious defects in your footage, even the panning smear. Handheld is no different. I mean, the "smear" or rather "studder" is there while panning sort of slowly, but not slow enough for a real smooth image, but these are subtle things, nothing that would "ruin" your footage. It's just a compromise that must be taken into consideration for certain types of shots...for instance if you were panning across a landscape. You should keep in mind that the movie Murderball, about quadroplegic wheelchair sports, was shot with the DVX using 24p, and a lot of the footage was from cameras strapped to the very much in motion wheel chair athletes themselves. To sum it up, it is my opinion (one informed by having shot hundreds of hours of DVX 24p footage) that you really don't have anything to worry about in this regard for the type of footage it seems you'll be shooting. But you will want to spend some time getting to know the camera (no matter what you shoot with) before showtime. You'll simply have to have a feel for it, knowing things like how to operate the iris/focus/neutral density filters/white balance. Dont worry too much about the menu settings, you can just use scene file 6 with all parameters set at default values and get amazing 24p footage, assuming your compositions are good.

Hi Steph,

Start here:
http://www.adamwilt.com/24p/index.html
After that, there's not much else to say - it's that good.

Good luck.


What a great resource. Thanks!

Dear Jack, Michael and Daniel


Have been away from the forum for awhile...But now wanted to thank you for your replies. They will be very helpful to me and other readers I'm sure.

Thank you so much for taking the time to address this issue.

Stephanie

not sure if this is the right sub forum, please move it if it is not, thanx and sorry
anyway,

i'm almost done my film, shot 90% on dvx100a in 24p, editied in pro and AE

here is site http://www.asphaltjunkiez.com
http://www.asphaltjunkiez.com/trailer

enjoy

Saturnin

looks really good man! good AE comp's too.

What camera/capture settings did you use cause mine is coming out like junk!

i shot in scene dial f5 on the dvx, white balanced for each shoot.
some of the shots i shot with diff shutter speeds etc... but majority were on stock settings.

the interviews were shot with two kino flows 500watt and umbrellas, didnt have the softboxes. One of the interviews only used a back light


captured on pro 1.0 and imported to 1.5 due to the fact that i had both 60i footage and 24p and 1.5 doesnt like em both(but thats another story)

did some cc in AE and premiere
right now i'm mixing sound in pro 1.5
and its turning out well

Nicely done action shots. Tight editing.

Nice trailer.

Ed

thanx...i will have another trailer done before the release...differnt style

I am using Final Cut Pro and am trying to capture footage shot in 24p ( not advanced) for editing in a 24p timeline. Apparently advanced mode must be used or it will be captured at 29.97. My question is how can I convert to use this footage with all my other 24pa (23.98) footage in my 24p timeline? Thanks.

Methinks you'd get more responses if you post this question in the
Non-linear Editing on a Mac section of the forum.
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=30


You could also take a look at this thread:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=61135
No replies yet, but the topic is similar.

Hey guy's im shooting an event similiar to UFC (ultimate fighting championship) and I can't decide if I should shoot 24p standard or 60i. What would you guy's think?

Planning to go on Pay Per View, DVD etc.

Live events are almost invariably shot in 60i or high-def 60p, especially sporting events.

If you're doing some sort of documentary about the sport, 24p might be appropriate, but if you're actually shooting the event itself, people are accustomed to seeing those events at 60i or 60p.

Thanks Barry, Do you think the DVX100 is an appropriate choice

Checkout the interview referenced in this thread:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=61357

I recently bought a DVX100B (just arrived last week). I use Premiere 6.5 and was thinking of upgrading to Pro 2.0 because it's the cheapest way to go and I'm familiar with it. But the question is -- does it handle 24P well (basic or advanced 24P)? Or is there a different alternative that I need to be looking at?

Hopefully this question is appropriate for this forum. If not, let me know.

Dale

Many of us DVX users migrated to Vegas because of its unparalleled handling of 24P. Vegas + DVX = magic. Vegas offers a free download, so try it and see what you think.

Yes vegas is pretty good at the 24P. I'm no longer a PC guy so have my Vegas+DVDA version 5 + Upgrade to 6 (License all fully transferable and you can upgrade etc. Effectively the Vegas Production Suite) for sale if you find Vegas is good for you and want to get it. It's just lying around here now not getting used, so I'll probably flick it for a good price + shipping.

Aaron

Barry,

Thanks. I will probably download it and try it. I have a Matrox RT.X10 card. Do you know of any compatability issues there? (Although I got the card primarily to capture video from my older analog camcorder, I have used several of the Matrox effects).

What is Vegas' advantage with the DVX that is causing people to switch to it? In general how does it compare with Premiere 6.5?

Aaron, I assume from your post you've gone to a Mac. If I like Vegas, I may be interested. I think you can send an e-mail to me via the members list if you want to talk more offline or I can post my e-mail address. I'm new here so I'm not sure of the best protocol.


Dale