The Angenieux Optimo zoom lenses are pretty compact and have an ENG style servo as an accessory.

And there's the Fujinon ENG style Cabrio compact PL mount zooms the same size as most 2/3" zooms and complete with hand grip and zoom rocker. It can be done, it just requires more sophisticated elements that move relative to each other much more precisely. All of which costs money.

Lets face it, very, very few people are going to buy a $35k lens for a $4k camcorder.

Crumbs, hasn't this little thread blossomed!

I did ask about LANC controllers - this is an E-Mount lens, so there's a manual 'switch' style zoom control on the lens, but the progressive multi-speed control that you'd get from a rocker must be communicated from the E-Mount.

So, I asked... "if I shoved one of these lenses on my FS100, and plugged my old Z1 LANC controller into the FS100, would I get vari-speed zoom from this lens?" (it wasn't quite pitched with these words, but you get the idea...).

There was a pause, and a 'yes, that sounds logical' answer. It may take another firmware upgrade to the FS100, but it would make sense.

Don't forget - this is a tweaked version of the kit lens - it shares so much in common with it.

It will turn your FS100/EA50 into the equivalent of the EX1 minus the last little bit of reach with the telephoto. Slightly better depth of field at f8 (this lens at f8 looks a little better than the EX1 lens at f2.8 regarding DoF), and that's not a bad thing quite frankly. :)

What I'm curious about is how will it handle focus? The 18-200mm kit lens is varifocal, so focus shifts when you zoom, this would make a servo zoom to be of little real benefit because as you zoom in and out, unless your using auto focus, the focus will change.

It is possible these days to programme a varifocal lens to shift it's focus as you zoom, this is how the EX cameras work, but that normally requires a back-focus setup routine or back focus adjustment. Most lenses only track focus accurately after back-focussing and even things like different thickness ND filters or temperature changes can upset this. I think we will have to wait and see if this new lens will track focus through the zoom range or whether you'll be forced to use autofocus to keep it in focus as you zoom.

The EX1 lens is, if you hammer it (turn off servo zoom, whack the zoom in and out), varifocal save for a little lens element that squeaks around trying to keep things sharp.

If I do a slow creep zoom with the kit lens, the AF seems to keep up with things so long as it doesn't get distracted by the background.

So, I think - yes, the kit lens' varifocal nature will be modified to provide a sort of Parfocalness, which will be easily overcome by snap zooms, and I hope that because the AF is a co-operation between camera and lens, the offset required for NDs will be built in - but that's at the expense of slow response all round.

It will probably be an £800 lens with high profit margin, competing with your high end SD ENG lens at £8k. It will fulfil the needs of Event Videography very well, but no free lunches. We'll hear complaints of focus drift on the FS100, slow response on the FS700, and probably no complaints from the EA50 camp. :)

Still - remember the EX1's slow zoom?

Features cost money. Every feature you enable requires engineering to develop it, test it and maintain it. The more features, the more a camera costs. Additionally, you as a camera owner benefit from a manufacturer choosing model replacement timing and features. It comes in the form of resale value.
Really?? Sorry I dont agree. I suspect makers know what they are doing.

Really?? Sorry I dont agree. I suspect makers know what they are doing.

I expect you are both correct. Sony in particular are good at using essentially the same camera with features turned off as the models progress down in price. In the consumer models it is very obvious. NX5U and AX2000 are good examples. NX30 and PJ760 is another. Sometimes there is a bigger change but the core camera is the same like the NX70 and CX700.

The R&D is clearly done on the the more complex camera and then marketing dictates the feature set for the real products.

Ron Evans

Jalan,
Building products on common components is just a smart way to produce products for different markets. A consumer product that doesn't have a bunch a features that the higher end model has is cheaper to produce so therefore it can have a lower price. Just because the "core" is the same, doesn't mean the cost is the same. A feature that requires a physical button that isn't included in the consumer camera is a physical button not need in manufacturing....it didn't have to be tested on that model for integration with other features and the support costs for handling problems and user issues with the feature are all lower.

An illustrative example of this is zebras. Soccer moms and grand parents won't use it so why should they pay for it? Not enabling saves the user testing of having in in the menus and the support costs for all the consumers that accidently turn it on and call in because their camera is broken with wiggling stripes.

Those who appreciate and want the greater functions are the ones that should pay for it and by putting the functions in the various models, manufacturers can develop products for various markets at various price points. The costs are borne by the proper market segment while the core gets borne across all markets which helps buyers in all of them.

I agree with you Les, however the actual price has little to do with cost and more to do with market pricing. The profit margin is a reflection of how good the R & D was in meeting its intended market. Before retiring I spent my career in high tech as both VP marketing and in R & D so I am well aware of the issues of testing both in R & D and in production.

As an example I got one of the early NX5U camcorders that both suffered the back focus issue as well as the problem with FMU128 and SD card shut downs. Both were fixed under warranty but clearly one was not tested in R & D fully and the other a manufacturing testing issue !!!

I am a Sony fan, all my cameras are Sony. NX5U, CX700, XR500, SR11 and still around but not used FX1, TRV50, HC96, TRV740. even a VX3 !!! Decks DHR1000, EV-S7000 and GV-HD700/1.

None of the current batch of cameras meet my current search for a camera that my wife can use to do closeups for our shoot that is easy to use. She currently uses the SR11, uses touch spot focus and exposure control. It is getting old and compared to the others is not as good. Low light is poor compared to the others and the exposure moves in steps. I would like a camera that has good LANC controlled variable zoom,clearly has touch spot focus and with a continuous exposure control ( no steps). Maintaining focus though zoom would be nice but that is why she uses spot focus all the time now as the SR11 will not hold focus through zooming. Why not use autofocus? Shoots are in the theatre so light changes throw off auto focus all the time. All my batteries, chargers , LANC controllers etc for Sony so a Sony is at the top of my list. If the NEX-EA50EH meets these it may well be interesting and would be an alternate to my NX5U sometimes too.

Ron Evans

.with features turned off as the models progress down in price. .

The R&D is clearly done on the the more complex camera and then marketing dictates the feature set for the real products.

Ron Evans

Too bad this wasn't the rule with the VG20. Nex 5n and 7n sported scene profile settings which included ability to adjust saturation, sharpness and contrast. Same with the Nex VG10. VG20 shows up, without it, while Sony advertizing actually included it. Of course, the next level up, the FS100 has it again.

Why is it missing in only one camera in the line ? It was obviously a deliberate move to protect from a threat Sony perceived and had nothing to do with higher price options.

Too bad this wasn't the rule with the VG20. Nex 5n and 7n sported scene profile settings which included ability to adjust saturation, sharpness and contrast. Same with the Nex VG10. VG20 shows up, without it, while Sony advertizing actually included it. Of course, the next level up, the FS100 has it again.

Why is it missing in only one camera in the line ? It was obviously a deliberate move to protect from a threat Sony perceived and had nothing to do with higher price options.

Purely marketing I expect. I am sure ALL the Sony cameras have all the capability in the on board processor. Just depends on what is decided to market ie the loaded firmware which governs what you can see in the menus etc. Certainly the older Sony's could be modified with the maintenance LANC controller and that may still be the case.

Ron Evans

Yes, Ron, we've had similar careers ... my comments were directed toward Jalan. I edited my post indicating that.

A Different Sony NEX EA50 Promo film (https://vimeo.com/groups/153499sonynexea50users/videos/47713588)

Ok, so the techno music sucks!

It will be interesting to see the lens on this camera. I am not sure why it has to look odd and clunky.....the other detachable lenses on other Sony videocams are fully automatic without looking like someone tried to motorize a lens long after the fact.

Dan Chung on the camcorder...

http://www.dslrnewsshooter.com/2012/08/22/video-interview-sony’s-nex-ea50-demonstrated/

Price now down to $3600 at B&H
Sony Sony NEX-EA50UH Camcorder with 18-200mm Servo NEX-EA50UH

Anyone know if this will shoot timelapse?

Price now down to $3600 at B&H
Sony Sony NEX-EA50UH Camcorder with 18-200mm Servo NEX-EA50UH (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/887069-REG/Sony_nex_ea50h_Sony_NEX_EA50_Camcorder_with.html)

I noticed that also.

To me it makes it a no-brainer to get the NEX-EA50 vs the NEX-VG30. By the time you add the XLR adapter to the NEX-VG30 you will be at almost the same price. In addition, I am betting the NEX-EA50 has the picture profiles that the NEX-VG30 lacks. And I like the fact the batteries the NEX-EA50 uses have been around a long time and are more likely to stay that way than the ones Sony sticks into their consumer cams (VG10/VG20/VG30) and periodically changes.

What I find interesting is the NEX-VG900 + XLR adapter + the Sony servo-zoom lens totals to $5K USD. As nice as FullFrame would be, I think I would wait to see the price tag on the NEX-FS100 replacement that has to be coming to support the servo-zoom lens(es).

I think I would wait to see the price tag on the NEX-FS100 replacement that has to be coming to support the servo-zoom lens(es).

Not sure that Sony will replace the FS100 just to support a stills lens fitted with a motor. More likely to do a firmware update along with the option to buy the hand grip from the FS700.

Do remember that the zoom lens is based on the SAL18200 so it won't track focus throughout the zoom range. You'll have to use autofcocus to hold focus as you zoom. Without the ability to adjust the back focus/flange back you can't expect a zoom to hold focus as you zoom in and out. The power zooms at IBC definitely did not hold focus manually as you zoomed. There was a pronounced focus shift as you zoomed in and out. I was told by the engineers that this would be improved, but possibly never fully eliminated. This isn't like an EX where you can defeat the focus momentarily with crash zooms, this was a noticeable shift that did not correct itself as you zoomed.

I noticed that also.

To me it makes it a no-brainer to get the NEX-EA50 vs the NEX-VG30. By the time you add the XLR adapter to the NEX-VG30 you will be at almost the same price. In addition, I am betting the NEX-EA50 has the picture profiles that the NEX-VG30 lacks. And I like the fact the batteries the NEX-EA50 uses have been around a long time and are more likely to stay that way than the ones Sony sticks into their consumer cams (VG10/VG20/VG30) and periodically changes.

.

I tend to agree that when one adds in the cost of the bigger battery, XLR adapter and Mic, viewfinder on the LCD and likely more controls the price difference favours the NEX EA50. I just need to ensure that it has touch focus etc that makes using that zoom useful like the consumer Sony cams I now use that also do not hold focus when zooming. I also have batteries and chargers from my FX1 and NX5 as well as a FMU128 that I use with the NX5U. The combination starts to look attractive.

Ron Evans

Not sure that Sony will replace the FS100 just to support a stills lens fitted with a motor. More likely to do a firmware update along with the option to buy the hand grip from the FS700.

Do remember that the zoom lens is based on the SAL18200 so it won't track focus throughout the zoom range. You'll have to use autofcocus to hold focus as you zoom. Without the ability to adjust the back focus/flange back you can't expect a zoom to hold focus as you zoom in and out. The power zooms at IBC definitely did not hold focus manually as you zoomed. There was a pronounced focus shift as you zoomed in and out. I was told by the engineers that this would be improved, but possibly never fully eliminated. This isn't like an EX where you can defeat the focus momentarily with crash zooms, this was a noticeable shift that did not correct itself as you zoomed.

I hope you are right, I'd like to see that available for the FS100.

Not sure that Sony will replace the FS100 just to support a stills lens fitted with a motor. More likely to do a firmware update along with the option to buy the hand grip from the FS700.


My expectation is that Sony will also be migrating the FullFrame+APS-C capabilities similar to the Alpha99/NEX-VG900 throughout the NEX-FSxxx line, along with the zoom rocker/control. Given the relative price points, they almost have to. NAB is going to be interesting next year!

Sony is odd about how they update products so I'm honestly not sure what to expect.

The Sony EX1r received features that never resulted in an update to the EX3.
The F3 still uses 4:2:0 internally when they started using 4:2:2 in admittedly higher end cameras but now in the new PMWs.
You'd think the FS700 features would eventually find their way into an updated F3 (slow mo for example).
The VG series starts to move into full frame.
The EA50 has a form factor some of us would like to see across the product line.
The feature progression and release just doesn't' seem logical. I can't help but think this creates confusion in the marketplace.

Sony is odd about how they update products so I'm honestly not sure what to expect.

The Sony EX1r received features that never resulted in an update to the EX3.
The F3 still uses 4:2:0 internally when they started using 4:2:2 in admittedly higher end cameras but now in the new PMWs.
You'd think the FS700 features would eventually find their way into an updated F3 (slow mo for example).
The VG series starts to move into full frame.
The EA50 has a form factor some of us would like to see across the product line.
The feature progression and release just doesn't' seem logical. I can't help but think this creates confusion in the marketplace.

Nothing odd there really. You have to remember it takes Sony 3-4 years to develop a new camera and a year or more to do an updated version.

The EX1R was developed after the EX3 and included new hardware not in the EX3 so the EX3 could not be updated by firmware alone, the EX3 sold in lower numbers than the EX1/EX1R so perhaps is was felt this did not justify the cost of re-design.

The F3 development started not long after the EX1 and uses a lot of EX1 parts including the back end processing which is why it can't do 4:2:2 internally.

Maybe we will see an updated F3, there's certainly plenty of rumours flying around. The FS100 didn't come out at exactly the same time as the F3.

The EA50 does have an interesting form factor and perhaps we will see similar on other product lines. However when Sony made a full shoulder mount version of the EX1 (PMW-320) it wasn't one of their greatest hits. A lot of people don't want shoulder mounted cameras these days.

Not sure that Sony will replace the FS100 just to support a stills lens fitted with a motor. More likely to do a firmware update along with the option to buy the hand grip from the FS700.

Do remember that the zoom lens is based on the SAL18200 so it won't track focus throughout the zoom range. You'll have to use autofcocus to hold focus as you zoom. Without the ability to adjust the back focus/flange back you can't expect a zoom to hold focus as you zoom in and out. The power zooms at IBC definitely did not hold focus manually as you zoomed. There was a pronounced focus shift as you zoomed in and out. I was told by the engineers that this would be improved, but possibly never fully eliminated. This isn't like an EX where you can defeat the focus momentarily with crash zooms, this was a noticeable shift that did not correct itself as you zoomed.

Curious to read about "pronounced focus shift." I had the FS100 and SEL18200 combo, and the latter always seemed to me to be parfocal more or less. Acceptably so for HD video anyway. Is the powered version the definitely SEL18200 with a motor, or rather Tamron's version (rebranded SEL18200LE) with a motor?

The EA50 does have an interesting form factor and perhaps we will see similar on other product lines. However when Sony made a full shoulder mount version of the EX1 (PMW-320) it wasn't one of their greatest hits. A lot of people don't want shoulder mounted cameras these days.

The issue with the PMW 320 is that, it's design a bit bulky. The EA50, being a smaller lighter camera base, looks like it can be used either hand held or shoulder mount. I think it's a fundamentally different approach to shoulder design than the 320. It's probably due to the small size and light weight though. The shoulder mount is in the back (not practically with a very front heavy camera) and the shoulder mount slides out. A design like that MIGHT work with FS100 or FS700 even. I think it would be harder with the F3 which would probably go the design route of the 320 which, as you note, wasn't very popular.

I really don’t see this as a shoulder mounted camera the weight of the cam is not really on your shoulder. It is more like a stabilizer or a third point of contact.

It's more like an Sony EX3 or the older Canon XLH1, both are also semi- shoulder camera's but not really as all the wheight is still in your hands, a friend of mine has a EX3 and he says that he can't film longer then 5 minutes handheld before it gets too heavy.

The first time I saw the shoulder extension I thought to myself “great place to mount the Nanoflash and battery."

Been out and about in Hong Kong shooting with a pre-production EA50 and I really quite like it. It is not an FS700 or FS100, the image quality is not quite that good. The pictures are contrasty and it's not as sensitive. It's really nice to have the same familiar menu's as the FS100 including the same picture profiles so you can dial in a look to suit your needs. The servo zoom is OK. It's not perfect, there is a picture shift when you change zoom direction and some small focus shifts (these should be significantly reduced in production units). It was really nice to have a functioning zoom on a big sensor camera. But even if you don't have a zoom lens the EA50's 2x electronic zoom works really well and I didn't notice any significant change in image quality when using the digital zoom. The camera is front heavy, but it's not a heavy weight camera so I didn't find it too bad to use. The buttons and switches are easy to access when it's on your shoulder. I missed having builtin ND filters and had to resort to using the shutter to deal with brighter scenes and there are no special functions like S&Q so no time-lapse or slow motion other than by shooting at 50p/60p and slowing it down in post. I did shoot some time lapse by just letting the camera roll and then speeding it up in post. It does have a few slow shutter speeds so I was able to use these in some of the night sequences I shot for a blurry effect. I'll be writing a longer more detailed review in due course and posting some sample clips and frame grabs.

Alister, how did the EA50EH hold up in low light?
I realize it won't be as clean as the FS100/700, but does it hold up well?

Been out and about in Hong Kong shooting with a pre-production EA50 and I really quite like it. It is not an FS700 or FS100, the image quality is not quite that good. The pictures are contrasty and it's not as sensitive. It's really nice to have the same familiar menu's as the FS100 including the same picture profiles so you can dial in a look to suit your needs. The servo zoom is OK. It's not perfect, there is a picture shift when you change zoom direction and some small focus shifts (these should be significantly reduced in production units). It was really nice to have a functioning zoom on a big sensor camera. But even if you don't have a zoom lens the EA50's 2x electronic zoom works really well and I didn't notice any significant change in image quality when using the digital zoom. The camera is front heavy, but it's not a heavy weight camera so I didn't find it too bad to use. The buttons and switches are easy to access when it's on your shoulder. I missed having builtin ND filters and had to resort to using the shutter to deal with brighter scenes and there are no special functions like S&Q so no time-lapse or slow motion other than by shooting at 50p/60p and slowing it down in post. I did shoot some time lapse by just letting the camera roll and then speeding it up in post. It does have a few slow shutter speeds so I was able to use these in some of the night sequences I shot for a blurry effect. I'll be writing a longer more detailed review in due course and posting some sample clips and frame grabs.
Will you share the footage with us all Alister? :)

What about the aliasing and moire?

Hi, if there is a 2x digital zoom for primes, what would a 50mm prime turn in to zoomed in at 2x?

Well it appears that it would make the 50mm lens a 100mm lens.

I shoot wedding and I find this camera very exciting. I currently use Panasonics AG-HMC 150s I cant wait to get back to a shoulder mount camera I am kinda old school and the hmc-150 was my first (and last) hand held camera. I am just a little nervous on the image quality, How can I one chip deliver accurate colors equal to a 3 chip?

and the hmc-150 was my first (and last) hand held camera

The NEX-EA50EH is still a handheld camera, the shoulderpad just extends the back of the camera and that you can lay on your shoulder but all the camera's wheight will be in your hands, just like any "handicam". The only advantage out of that formfactor is that you could hold it a bit more stable but I doubt you can do that for extended times.

I use Anton/Bauer batteries for my light and wireless at least theres a place to mount stuff like that unlike my current camera.

Finally NEXEA50 test footage (preproduction) posted somewhere.
Johnnie Behiri grouses about the lack of ND filters (Sony had to GET that people want these even if it impacts form factor and price) and more notably he describes rolling shutter as severe. If you read the comments it's likened to the earliest DSLRs used for video (not good).

"Pepephon"- Sony NEX-EA50 pre-production test footage. on Vimeo

Well I've had the review and frame grabs up on my site for a while.
NEX-EA50 Review. Great Value For The Money. | (http://www.xdcam-user.com/2012/10/nex-ea50-review-great-value-for-the-money/)
There is some skew, more than most dedicated video cameras, but I didn't find it to be horrendous. Moire and aliasing were well controlled. I have some video clips but these were shot for a specific purpose so I can't put them online just yet. Overall I thought the images I came away with were really pretty good considering the price point.

Thanks for that info Alister.
It's so hard to judge a criticism when there's no example of it to judge. Behiri's footage looks reasonable even when played at 1080 on Vimeo. It's not skewing in his slow slider/dolly shots.
It looks like it might be a reasonable camera in lower budget Corporate, Doc, ENG work.

For me, an important test would be to see how the skewing looks in "braced against the shoulder" work following a not so rapidly moving subject.

I think the market is for those of us looking at a kitted out DSLR vs something that has a "proper" camera form factor that doesn't have to be "put together" for a shoot.

I shot some fast pans of buses and trams going past and when you watch the footage you don't notice any skew, but if you step through it frame by frame you can see the buses are slightly twisted. I've seen better and I've seen worse, unless your shooting fast action like sports I don't think most people will find it a problem.

Thanks Alister. When I hear another reviewer describe the problem as "severe" and puts it in the class of the earliest DSLRs used for video, it implies bad. Your description sounds much more serviceable and tolerable for a camera in this low price range.

Another review went on line a couple of days back sans production lens.
ProVideo Coalition.com: Bruce's Blog by Bruce A. Johnson | Founder (http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/bjohnson/story/first_look_semi_review_sony_nex-ea50h_nxcam_camcorder/)

It's more technical, functional, form factor than image evaluation.
Seems Bruce Johnson feels it's a little to easy to accidentally turn off.
Although only alluded to, it seems low light performance isn't a highlight although he mentions the slow lens he was given and having to gain up indoors.
He likes the full size HDMI connector but regrets no SDI.
He loves the viewfinder but not the tube one might use with it (described as fragile).
He mentions the lack of time code sync for multicam but I certainly wouldn't expect that in this price range. Alas we live in the age of Plural Eyes after all.
The nifty feature pointed to is the 2x digital zoom. This is great used of the APS-C sensor (uses the sensor size rather than digital image blow up for those who don't quite grasp the significance).

As a wedding and event video guy, I'm really interested in this camera to compliment my NX5U.

The big selling point for me back when I made the switch from Canon to Sony was, the fact that I could simultaneously record to both SD and the FMU for instant backup. Which, in this field is huge.

The price is great. The feature set looks great. The capabilities look pretty good.

Now, just got to save up some $. lol

Only 480p now? When I last looked I thought there was 720p as well? Must say the images out of this camera look pretty good to me.

Wondering why this camera can shoot 30p, which is great, none of the other Sony APS-C sensor camcorders have this feature, even the new FF VG-900 doesn't have it. I am also wondering why Sony seems to be dropping 30p except for all of the news type camcorders. I like shooting 30p. Is having 30p on a camcorder not necessary any more, just shoot 60i and drop it into a 30p timeline if you want progressive?

Also wondering if you can record true 4:2:2 out of the HDMI port. I have yet to find where there is a straight answer on this one. Thoughts anyone?

Specs from AbelCine
Sony NEX-EA50UH Camera with 18-200mm Servo Zoom Lens - DEPOSIT :: Compact HD Cameras :: Cameras :: Equipment Sales :: AbelCine (http://www.abelcine.com/store/Sony-NEX-EA50UH-Camera-with-18-200mm-Servo-Zoom-Lens-DEPOSIT/#tabs)

1920x1080p60
HDMI output would be 4:2:2 but probably only 8 bit.
Note they list that it supports TimeCode on HDMI as well much as the FS series does.

Sony UK has product page up but not seeing it in US yet.
NEX-EA50EH (NEXEA50EH) : Product Overview : Sony Professional (http://www.sony.co.uk/pro/product/nxcamcorders/nex-ea50eh/overview)

60i will not give you 30p in any way as the temporal motion is the same as 60P it just records fields instead of full frames. Just half the vertical resolution compared to 60P but the same motion characteristics. If you want the slow frame rate you will have to record it that way. Confusion comes in that 60i is called 29.97 fps but that is timecode not exposure rate. Exposure rate is 59.94 fields per second. Camera is taking exposures at the same rate as 60P.

Would still like to know if it has touch focus like the consumer cameras.


Ron Evans

I cant wait to see this camera, if its at least as good in low light as my AG-HMC 150s I am buying 2!

Pretty sure the viewfinder is not a touch screen.