I got to play with one at the F5/55 launch event in London and IIRC (i.e. I have a really strong memory of doing this) 'tap to focus' Spot focus was enabled.

Apologies if this is the Mother Of All Middle Aged Moments, but Tap To Focus would make a lot of sense on this style of camera.

That is good to know. The spec did say touch face so i wondered if ordinary touch focus was there too. In face detection mode the camera is normally in auto . I like having CX700 etc in manual but being able to touch focus. I hope this is how it is implementd in th EA50.

Ron Evans

I wonder how good this camera can be in low light with the stock lens, which is not a fast lens. If anyone has used this 18-200 mm lens with the other cameras in this category, I would like to know your feedback. Does raising the ISO and/or adding Gain allow you to shoot in low light with this lens and not get added grain to the image?

I was thinking the same thing. That slow stock lens on that camera can't be good in low light even with the large APS-C sensor. I'm considering a JVC GY-HM600 for its low light capability (among other things) instead of the EA-50.

Hi Guys

Nothing wrong with popping on a Sony 50mm F1.8 when you have low light..with the unique 2X internal zoom you still have a 50 -100 zoom lens and still autofocusable too!

With no ND filters (which suits me doing solo shoots with 2 cameras at weddings), does anyone know if the auto-iris simply uses a combination of iris and shutter to control exposure or does it also have an automatic internal ND filter like the Panasonic HMC40/80 and new AC-90 cameras have ??

The stock lens at F3.5 will need LOT's of light and Sony have rated it at 7 lux so I'm also wondering if the lens will only be good outside ...some Churches we have are fairly dim inside too!!

Chris

The JVC-HM600 series do not have AVCHD 2.0 so no 50/60P which I think is a problem going forward now. I would certainly like to move to all 60P cameras. With the EA50 you can change the lens for a really fast one if needed. I shoot theatre now with my NX5U and even in the dark theatre shows rarely use above 9 db and since the NX5U lens rams as do lots in this price range it will be at f2.8 to f3.5 anyway. Above 9db the NX5U starts to really show grain so in this regard I think the EA50 will be a lot better than the NX5U for dark conditions even down to its f6 range since it appears to be clean video at 30db which may more than account for the lens. Will really have to see what it turns out to be with production units when they are available. I am sure more lenses will appear too.

Ron Evans

Interesting. I use an NX5U too. It would be nice if the stock EA50 can do better in low light than the NX5U.

It doesn't have smooth gain switching so that may be a little issue for me though. Something I really like on the NX5U.Will have to wait and see.

Ron Evans

I would think filming dance recitals/plays with the EA50 would not be good, since the stock lens ramps up to 6.3 f-stop when zoomed in on dark stage. I use Z7U for stage work, great Zeiss lens for low light, only ramps up to 2.0 (from 1.6 when fully wide). Zeiss lenses for EA50 look pretty expensive. You would have to purchase A-mount adapter and I do not see Zeiss lenses with much of a zoom range. Does the new zoom rocker do 2x on the A-series lenses and keep focus, or is this feature only for E-mount lenses? Does it just snap to 2x, or does it have some kind of zoom range?

I am not thinking of replacing my NX5U. I think the digital 2x zoom works with any lens as it is a processor effect cropping the sensor. So it should work with the stock lens too. Zoomed in the NX5U ramps to f3.4 with a sensor that is not as sensitive and a lot noisier so gain can't be used like the newer cameras. It will be interesting to see if the ability to use gain more than compensates for the slower lens. My CX700 easily outperforms the NX5U for a clean signal in low light for instance. The CX700 is much cleaner at 21db of gain than the NX5U at 12db the absolute limit I will use on my NX5U.

Ron Evans

Hi Guys

Being a newcomer to big sensors, would the camera in a typical indoor scenario with the stock F3.5 lens be a whole lot better compared to my Panasonics with have 1/4" chips and a lens that goes down to F1.9

Just wondering if we are talking BIG differences here considering the very large sensor even though the lens is only F3.5 ....If it makes my HMC80's look silly in that sort of lighting situation then it's really worth looking at. With the 1/4" chips on the Panny My iris would already be open and some gain applied in an ordinary domestic living room...could I expect the Sony to be a lot better???

Nother quickie question ..I see the NEX specs talk about Auto ISO AND AGC ...I'm confused I understand ISO in a stills camera and gain in a video camera ...but both??

Chris

Does someone make a fast 80-200 for that camera?

What annoys me the most is how both Canon and Sony have gone BACKWARDS regarding interchangable lenses. The Canon Hi8 camera from the EARLY 1990s had INTERCHANGABLE lenses WITH zoom control!!! WHy hasn't this system been retained and upgrade for use with the new large sensor camers both companies are now producing?? Too hard??

Canon Hi8 cameras used lenses designed for the camera specifically.
Sony's lenses are designed for a wide variety of cameras including their Alpha cameras.
The result is that only a very few lenses designed specifically for this, the FS700, etc will have built in servo zoom control.

BTW no one is locked into the stock lens. Need a faster lens, get a faster lens. That's the point of large sensor interchangeable lens cameras.

But we're pretty much stuck if we want a better servo zoom lens that will work on the EA50. At least until Sony comes out with a line of servo zoom lens to choose from.

Not going to argue with you Matt. It wasn't a feature I was particularly looking for.

Finally decided to join this forum after reading posts for years. Looking into this camera as well. Will be interested to see more reviews as more people get their hands on it and compare it to other cameras out there. Saw this recent footage comparison of this camera and found it very interesting. Thought I'd share...

Sony NEX-EA50 vs. Sony HVR-Z5U on Vimeo

In many respects I found the comments of more value than the video comparison.

I don't doubt there are many people who want to use a large sensor camera to replace a small sensor camera but I personally feel they serve two different purposes even if there's some overlap.

I was much more interested in the comments comparing the EA50 to the Canon 60D. The question that arises, for me, is DSLR vs EA50. If one were going just for "cinematic" one might be inclined to spend just a little more and get the FS100. As someone who does corporate vide and often with horrible time constraints, the EA50 form factor looks to really help. The question is at what cost to quality, if any. More useful in that kind of decision might be comparing it to the Canon 60D using matching lenses. Is it worth the hassle of a DSLR with rig vs the ease of use and flexibility of the EA50. At least that's the questions that come to my mind for corporate use.

Interesting comparison of the EA50 vs FS100
I find this of value because it deals with the questions some may have in choosing between the more "cinematic" FS100 or the more ergonomically versatile EA50. In not a case of which is better but what you can or lose when making such a choice.

Sony NEX-EA50 vs. Sony NEX-FS100 (and the Parfocal 3x+ Zoom Challenge) - Streaming Media Producer (http://www.streamingmedia.com/Producer/Articles/ReadArticle.aspx?ArticleID=86298)

Fascinating comparison of the FS100 vs EA50. However, he mentions that the EA50 requires +9db of gain to reach the sensitivity of the FS100 which "equates it to 3 stops of exposure". I always thought that +6db is one stop so wouldn't that make it 1.5 stops less sensitive instead of 3 stops?? Forgive me, kinda new with some of this math.

For event/wedding shooting, I'm okay personally with a bit less shallow depth of field in order to have a bit more "play room". Coming from a smaller sensor cam, I think the EA50 will be plenty shallow for my particular run n' gun style so that's okay that it appears a bit less shallow than the FS100.

Obviously the FS100/700 is a great low light cam, but according to the video I posted before, that user didn't experience much noise up through an ISO of 2500, and still good even through 5000. With a starting ISO of 160, doesn't that mean he found it clean through 24db and "surprisingly pretty decent" up through 30db? Again, I may be off in my "ISO vs db" math or not understanding something completely here but that sounds good to me....even if the FS100 can match the EA50's +24db performance at just +15db.

Toss in the slow power zoom lens and I'm all confused on how this will work at an actual event/wedding when I try to push in for a close up during a dark toast or a dimly lit father-daughter dance, etc. but I guess time, and a few more reviews I hope, will tell.

Don't know if this has been shown here but eventhough it's not the same camera I"m wondering if it is representative to the nex 50, here the full frame nex vg900 was tested (see "https://vimeo.com/53821829") and it came out not that good, I can't imagine that the nex 50 will be that better?

James, my understanding of gain vs stops is the same as yours.

I also think he's a bit "zoom" focused (and the title of the article admits that intent). I don't think the article thoroughly deals with the advantages/disadvantages in the comparison (but that may not have been his intent).

Generally lenses made for photography aren't designed for live zooming (breathing and aperture). Certainly some lens manufacturers are a bit more conscious of the demand but do expect to pay the price for it.

If you're an "event" shooter dealing with night or indoor weddings you can pretty much skip the stock lens IMHO. You're going to want the fastest lens you can afford and consider the great plus having 2x (near) lossless zoom. Keep in mind 2x is fairly small. It's enough for reframing shots a bit. The advantage of a zoom lens for an event shooter (IMHO) is that one has the option of being fairly wide when needed and being at the other end when shallow depth of field is more important. Trying to do that with a live (servo) zoom through on a budget . . . (well one can fantasize).

Of course zooming in for shallow depth of field when your fast lens becomes slower is a problem but it's also the reality. At that point is when you have to consider changing lenses so you have the right tool (lens choices) for the job.

Noa, I don't see how you can draw that conclusion. The VG900 and EA50 aren't related in components or target market. The VG900 is certainly not an EA50 with a larger sensor.

it's not a conclusion, just a question.

Hi Guys

Although video footage is always appreciated it always seems to be in the "backyard" so it's pretty tough to judge a camera on footage done at home (I'm also guilty BTW!!)

This is an event camera so has anyone actually used it for an event??? I'd love to see a wedding shot with this using the stock zoom ...Is it going to skew badly if you pan ..is moire going to be an issue???
A real on-site test will be 100X more useful than carefully done static shots

I would love the form factor for wedding shoots (and the weight too) but I have my own doubts on how the sensor would handle an event??

If anyone already has an EA50 please take it out into the real world and use it in a real situation with people and movement ...I'd love to see genuine results.

Chris

Fascinating comparison of the FS100 vs EA50. However, he mentions that the EA50 requires +9db of gain to reach the sensitivity of the FS100 which "equates it to 3 stops of exposure". I always thought that +6db is one stop so wouldn't that make it 1.5 stops less sensitive instead of 3 stops?? Forgive me, kinda new with some of this math.

James: You are correct and 6db = 1 F-stop. I've requested a correction in the original article. Thanks for pointing it out.

If anyone already has an EA50 please take it out into the real world and use it in a real situation with people and movement ...I'd love to see genuine results.

Chris

Looks like the same guy has posted a more real world video using the EA50. Nothing special but there are pans, etc. Looks nice with "some" issues.

https://vimeo.com/53911957

I've seen better quality video done with an iPhone. That is the best he could do?

I'd like to see a side by side with a gh2 or gh3, just to see how it resolves detail, that seemed to be the bottleneck for the vg900 and I get the impression it is the same here.

I really didn't see any people in that video at all...?? Just trains 'n planes and buildings!! That's about the same use as a backyard video IMO. I'd still like to see an event shot with it.

Noa?? Why a comparison with a GH2 ?? It's basically the same sort of sensor ... I would rather just see how the camera handles weddings and events ... Do we really want to say that yes the GH2 is better/worse ....I simply want to see if the cam is a viable wedding camera or not.

Chris

In the video I linked to the vg900' the image was very soft compared to the gh2 or 3, I"m not saying the nex 50 suffers the same problem, but I would be surprised if Sony can do that better with this large sensor camera. That's why I like to see how this one performs compared to a gh2 or 3 or even better a vg900.

It's also not the same sensor as the vg900 is full frame but that apparantly is no guarantee for a good image. It's like the vg20, I have seen many crap like looking wedding videos (refering to image quality) and just a few that look good, I"m not that convinced anymore about image quality when it comes to Sony's new large sensor videocamera's.

Hi Noa

Couldn't agree more!!! I just thought BIG sensor great image awesome in low light...from what I have seen so far the little Panasonic AC-90 produces a far nicer image with it's tiny 1/4.7" backlit chips !!

Problem is I really like the Sony form factor and weight!! That's what sucked me in!!!

I have yet to be convinced !! The full frame of the new 900 in theory should blow everything away but it doesn't either !!! I can hadly see the EA50 being any better!

Chris

You also have to consider the nex50 is not a real schoudercamera, more like a semi one like the canon xl-h1. This means you have to carry all the weight in your hands, something to consider for longer continuous handheld registrations. In that way the Panasonic AC-90 might be even a better choice if you don't care that much about shallow dof.

Hi Noa

Good point !! Unless the shoulder pad is almost in the middle you never achieve a balance anyway...I cheat on the HMC82's ..I have a sprung rod up front going into a waist belt and that takes all the weight of the camera. You can mod any cam that has a front mount LCD (That's all Sony have done!!) just with a simple rail underneath and a shoulder pad and then a loupe on the LCD.

It is, still easier to get it all in one like Sony have done!!

Are you shooting with any big sensors?? Do you have a moire issue??

Chris

Are you shooting with any big sensors?? Do you have a moire issue??

Yes and yes, I do have 2 videocamera's but also 2 dslr's (Canon 550d) and the moire on those can be very nasty if I"m shooting with a wide angle and deep dof and if there is fine detail (like rooftiles) in the background. I also think those first gen canon's are about as worse as it can get, every newer big sensor camera should be a bit better and some almost don't have any moire issues at all.

All these DSLR sensor based camcorders and DSLR's themselves are missing one absolutely critical function when it comes to get ParFocal operation: Back Focus adjustment.

As DSLR lenses don't have back focus adjustment it must be done on the camera. The F3 is the lowest cost s35mm camera with this ability. Without a means to adjust and correct for manufacturing tolerances, ear and tear, temperature etc it will be near impossible to get a lens completely par focal unless you want to start adding shims.

I found the EA50 to be 1.5 stops less sensitive than the FS100 for similar noise.

Alister, did you have to opportunity to compare the EA50 to Sony's full frame VG900 and how both compare imagewise? From what I read in your review you are impressed with the EA50 while others have nothing good to say about the vg900, I know they are different camera's but they are both large sensor camera's from the same supplier in the same price range and with the vg900 even being a full frame sensor I find it strange that it would perform that much worse?

Alister, did you have to opportunity to compare the EA50 to Sony's full frame VG900 and how both compare imagewise?

OMG the VG 900 is crappy in Videmode to much trown away Pixel
Alaising like hell and Chromatic Abberation

more camcorders german test with more camcorders the VG900
http://www.slashcam.de/news/single/Die-Blackmagic-Cinema-Camera-gegen-den-Rest-der-We-10281.html

and weeping here...
http://www.palsomedia.com/vg900/

I have not tested the VG900 so can't comment. I was pleasantly surprised by the EA50. I thought it did a very good job for a camera based around a stills sensor.

From what I am reading here, Sony seems to have dropped the ball when it comes the EA50's low light capabilities, something crucial to me for weddings and other low light events. Unless I hear positive feedback on this front, I will wait till NAB in April to see if perhaps Sony updates the FS100 or comes out with yet another camera that may merge the best aspects of the EA50 and the FS100. We'll see.

Sony haven't dropped the ball at all, the reduced low light performance is simply the result of using a sensor with smaller pixels. When you use a sensor designed for high resolution stills, compared to a dedicated HD or even 4K video sensor the pixels will be much smaller and thus the camera will be less sensitive. The EA50 is built to a price point and a big part of the saving comes from using technology and parts from the mass consumer market. The EA50 is still better in low light than most small sensor cameras.

Seems as if Sony took a few things from the NX5U too or the other cameras in the range. Being able to use the FMU128 is good since I use that all the time with my NX5U. I will certainly be interested to see how the low light compares to the NX5U which isn't the greatest in low light. I was looking for an upgrade to my NX5U to improve the noise level in low light to match my consumer cameras, get the touch controls of my CX700 etc and the NEX-EA50 seems to address most of these with the advantage of interchangeable lenses too. ! I am sure it would be possible to make it quite good in low light just not with the stock lens. One built from the FS100 would be better for me as I do not want to take any stills with the camera but I am sure if this was the case the consumer touch features I would like would not be included !!!

Ron Evans

How does it compare to a Canon 7d for low light?

The EA50 is still better in low light than most small sensor cameras.

Alister, you say "most"... which small sensor camera have better low light performance than EA50?

Besides ergonomics, is there a reason to get this over an FS100 for events? I guess maybe its a bit less expensive and has a servo zoom rocker on the side and handle which is nice. But its also 1.5 stops less sensitive than the FS100 and neither have an ND filter or HDSDI outputs. Oh, but I guess the EA50 also has a "near lossless" digital zoom which would conceivably extend the stock lens to a 400mm one. Hmm. Decisions. I too am starting to hope that come April 2013 at NAB, Sony will hopefully release another option in the similar price range.

Fascinating comparison of the FS100 vs EA50. However, he mentions that the EA50 requires +9db of gain to reach the sensitivity of the FS100 which "equates it to 3 stops of exposure". I always thought that +6db is one stop so wouldn't that make it 1.5 stops less sensitive instead of 3 stops?? Forgive me, kinda new with some of this math.

copying from Wikipedia:
A change in power ratio by a factor of two is approximately a 3 dB change.


Meaning that one stop equals 3dB and not 6dB as you assume. In general even in sound, a difference of 3dB means either half or double the amount. The initial claim of 3stops between the 2 cameras is valid.

copying from Wikipedia:
A change in power ratio by a factor of two is approximately a 3 dB change.


Meaning that one stop equals 3dB and not 6dB as you assume. In general even in sound, a difference of 3dB means either half or double the amount. The initial claim of 3stops between the 2 cameras is valid.

It's all very confusing, yes. However, I'm quite sure I'm right in that +6db = 1stop. I read that wiki page you quote...or tried to anyway (ha!), and it may have more to do with audio or when it refers to video its a bit different with "logs" and such. Regardless, however video works and without getting too crazy technical, I'm pretty sure +9db of video gain is 1.5 stops. See this article by video-pro Alister Chapman for reference:

What is ISO and how does it compare to gain? | (http://www.xdcam-user.com/2011/02/what-is-iso-and-how-does-it-compare-to-gain/)

Cheers!

Thanks James

So even a two cameras one with a native iso of say 100 and one with one of 300 can produce the same image relative to IQ when noise is taken into account ??? Your ISO 300 camera might start off with a noisy picture yet the lower iso one might be squeaky clean!! The Panasonic AC-90 is a good example..It only has a native ISO of only 40 but you can add 30db of gain and still have a noise free image so the picture can actually look a lot better than a higher ISO camera that has a noisy image!!

Just for reference what is the native ISO of the EA50 with the stock lens???? The specs say "auto ISO" is 160 -1600 so does that mean the native ISO at 0db is 160???

Chris

Thanks James

So even a two cameras one with a native iso of say 100 and one with one of 300 can produce the same image relative to IQ when noise is taken into account ??? Your ISO 300 camera might start off with a noisy picture yet the lower iso one might be squeaky clean!! The Panasonic AC-90 is a good example..It only has a native ISO of only 40 but you can add 30db of gain and still have a noise free image so the picture can actually look a lot better than a higher ISO camera that has a noisy image!!

Just for reference what is the native ISO of the EA50 with the stock lens???? The specs say "auto ISO" is 160 -1600 so does that mean the native ISO at 0db is 160???

Chris

Yes, it all comes down to how each camera handles noise at different ISO settings. Some cameras clearly handle gain better than others. I doubt the AC90 is completely noise-free at 30db, but it sounds like it's pretty dang good. Then again I've ready that the EA50 is also fairly noise-free at even higher ISO's. I'm not totally sure but I do believe that the EA50's is at 160 ISO at 0db, yes. Of course the stock lens that is used is the other factor that may drive that sensitivity down but the advantage is that you can switch it out for a faster one if needed. As for the auto iris question, I never use auto settings on cameras (maybe an occasional auto focus) so I'm not 100% certain (I'm saying that a lot these days) but I think that means that if you leave the camera on "auto ISO" it will go up to 1600. But I do know that in video mode, you can push it past that manually up to 5000 or 6400 ISO I believe. If you decide to use the camera to shoot stills it can go above 12000 ISO I believe. Again, this is from memory of what I read in the past but that's how I understand it.

Thanks James

I'd like to know how the EA50 with the stock lens and 12db gain would look like..Admitedly the AC-90 would need 24db to reach the same sensitivity as it's on a native ISO40 so at 24db is would effectively be ISO320 and to get to a 320 ISO the Sony only needs 12db gain BUT the 90 is absolutely squeaky clean at 24db so I would expect the EA50 to perform up to at least 24db with zero noise (double the 90's sensitivity since it costs twice as much!! ) Take a look at the posts on the wedding forum and there is an image there from Tim with the FX1000 and AC-90 side by side ...the 90 is running at 30db gain and it's tough to find much noise at all!!

I guess we will really only discover performances once people actually start using them??? I really do like it's form factor even though it's not really balanced..I'm sure you could hang a battery off the end plus a couple of audio receivers too.

Chris

The explanation for why 3db of gain represents a doubling of power in a loudspeaker yet it takes 6db of gain to represent the doubling of light (1 f-stop) in a camera is that the former is expressing power (P) while the latter is expressing voltage (E). Power is (E^2/R). The R is dropped since we assume output inpedance is equal to input inpedance.

In the former, gain is 10 log (Pin/Pout) db. In the latter, gain is 10 log (Eout/Ein)^2 db, which reduces to 20 log (Eout/Ein) db.

Therefore, 6db equals 1 f-stop.