B&H has had the Sony NEX-EA50 camera listed for Pre-Order for quite some time. For the last couple of weeks it was “in-stock”. Now it is back on pre-order again. They must have sold their initial allotment. Damn, by the time it is back in stock I may have my eye on something else with all of the new choices available. But I am a corporate event, run n gun, and interview guy. I really think the NEX-EA50 is my next acquisition. Like many of you on this board I am waiting for all the information I can get as there is not much available yet.

Does anyone think that the VG3O is the same camera without the XLRs and shoulder mount?

The VG30 can only record 60i, 60p and 24p, not 30p and no overseas formats. The EA50 can record 30p, which is my preference for the web and for low light (using 30 shutter when needed, low light looks great). The EA50 can also record numerous international formats, plus it looks like a professional camcorder. The VG20 can actually record 30p, but in 60i wrapper. Why Sony dropped this from the VG30, maybe someone else can answer. You get shotgun mic with the EA50 as well as tubular eyepiece, which comes in handy when outside. By the time you outfit the VG30 to be like the EA50, not much difference in price and you wind up with a consumer looking camcorder with added XLR adapter and shotgun mic, along with stripped down recording formats and not an ideal camcorder for filming in bright outdoors.

one thing id like to know is: the low light performance that is on B&H's website says 1.7 lux at 1/24th and auto iris. Is that with the bundled lenses? Or is that camera only and the bundled lense will bring it more like 5 or 6 lux?

Hi Randy

It only comes with the stock lens at this point in time so 1.75 lux is with autoiris AND autogain so to achieve that rating the gain could be 27db!!! Gosh I really expected it to be a lot more sensitive with such a big sensor!!! Most 1/3rd chip video cameras can easily achieve that with full gain at 1/50 or 1/60th shutter. My HMC82's are almost there with 1/4" chips if I run it at 1/24 or 1/25 and panning at that shutter is out of the question. I'm sure that it will be a wizard in low light with a manual F1.4 lens but with the stock lens you will struggle in low light I think!!

Bear in mind that the Panny AC-90 has clean gain almost up to 30db but a fast lens (F1.5) and is half the price of the Sony. Now if it came with the stock lens AND a second zoom at F1.4 that could autofocus then it might be worth over $4K .. B&H have reduced the pre-order price now to $4200 from $4800

I am at the point where I would still rather have two AC-90's and I would still have some change in my pocket!!

Chris

Bear in mind that the Panny AC-90 has clean gain almost up to 30db but a fast lens (F1.5) and is half the price of the Sony

The pana ac90 iso rating is 40, so 30db gain and a f1.5 lens don't make it a light sensitive camera, the big advantage the panasonic has is that you hardly see grain at these high gain values. The Sony cx 7xx series f.i. and also the Canon hf g10 type of camera's are a better choice if low light performance is what you are after.

Chris: A bit off topic but I thought you wanted to see a pana in action at a wedding? below I found what seems to be a wedding done with it.

"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GWPGNJxPnU"

HDMI output is 4:2:2 and if it is 8 bit or 10 bit.

I'll be able to get this info straight from the horse's mouth on Monday next week, but from what I know already the HDMI output is 4:2:2 at 8 bit just like NEX-FS series and VG series.

The Tap-to-focus system is limited to E-mount lenses. Alpha lenses do things in a different way with the LE-EA2.

Hi Noa

Yep, I realise that the AC-90 has a lot lower rating than the EA-50 which will have a much higher iso even with the stock lens! I would love to know what sort of sensitivity one would get at a wedding reception dropping the stock lens and snapping on a Sony 50mm F1.8 ....You still have the facility of the internal 2X zoom so it might be quite manageable at a dim and dark wedding ??

Tim did a wedding on Saturday with the AC-90 so I'm eager to see how it coped at the reception.

Shucks!! I still really do like the EA50 form factor though cos I'm a shoulder mount person BUT I would still have to budget for a second fast lens for receptions I feel????

Thanks for the link ..it was a birthday 16th called a "quincerca" or something not a wedding!!

I would really love to see an EA-50 wedding though! It might just sway me!!

Chris

Although I really like the direction Sony is heading with this camera, unless you need a new camera right now, it might be a good idea to wait until NAB in April to see if Sony updates FS100 with 2x rocker zoom or comes out with similar, but improved model. From what I am reading, FS100 is much better in low light and its sensor is designed more for cinema; the one on the EA50 has smaller pixels and is really a still photo sensor. (Of course, the same can be said for most DSLR's that shoot video; some are better in low light than others). If your primary concern is low light performance, but you want the form factor of NEX-EA50, why rush into a purchase for the winter months when something that may be perfect low light, shallow Dof, run and gun camcorder might be just around the corner? Of course, the EA50 is cheap right now for what it can do and no camera is perfect. What to do...what to do...

I think im going to drive to NY at the end of the month and get my hands on one. I want to put it up against my AG-150s. Specs can only tell you so much.

Hi Guys

I was just looking at Sony Asia website and they are already listing two models of the EA50!! The EA50H comes with the stock lens (18-200) and then they also have the EA50K which says nothing about an "included 18-200 zoom lens" at all and it's image shows a fixed lens so I'm, wondering if the K just might be the "body only" version????

Global Media also lists both models with roughly the same wording too!!

Interesting?? A body only version would be a lot more flexible!

Chris

I am a big fan of Adobe On Location, I have been using it since Digital Juice created it before they sold it to Adobe. I have always connected to it with fire wire. Does anyone use a mini USB output from a camera to On Location? First, I don't even know if On Location will find a signal incoming from USB. Second, the mini USB listed for the EA-50 is called an output (high speed on some specs), I don't even know what kind of video signal it will be sending? Any chance I will still be able to use my lap top with On Location? It is a great program.

Steve

I've used the USB, it's just a way to read the memory card. In essence, your camera becomes a $3600 sd card reader. Nothing more. There is no video signal or anything like that...

That's what I was afraid of.

I am a big fan of Adobe On Location, I have been using it since Digital Juice created it before they sold it to Adobe. I have always connected to it with fire wire. Does anyone use a mini USB output from a camera to On Location? First, I don't even know if On Location will find a signal incoming from USB. Second, the mini USB listed for the EA-50 is called an output (high speed on some specs), I don't even know what kind of video signal it will be sending? Any chance I will still be able to use my lap top with On Location? It is a great program.

Steve

The term 'output' means that it allows data out from the camera, as opposed to input, i.e. recordeing to the card from an outside source. USB never has been a viable video interface, (ignore trivial devices likle webcams) as it is not autonomous and does not have any guaranteed data rate. The EA50's digital video out interface is HDMI. If a more professional camera is released on the back of the success of the EA50 form factor concept, say based on the S35 chip of the FS100, then it should have an SDI output.
So the Adobe On Location tool is really at the end of its life.

It was a dumb question. I knew the answer, I was just being hopeful.

Not only is Adobe On location near the end of it's life so are many other things I use. I have old systems built entirely around fire wire. I would still use them if I could, I liked the fire wire days.

The no SD-HDI aspect of this camera hurts. But I can not complain one bit. If you want pro features you gota pay pro prices. This is a budget camera, SDI-HD is the first thing to go.

Would the Black Magic Intensity not do? HDMI in, USB3 out. IIRC, it comes with Media Express recording software. Perhaps not quite On Location, but maybe On Location supports the Intensity properly now.

I recently did a green screen job using the FS100. To record in 4:2:2 I used a Mac Air via an intensity extreme over Thunderbolt. The software I used was Scopebox which is way better than Media Express as it has scopes which help with exposure etc

A little more test footage....

Shot on all auto, Auto focus, iso, iris, etc...

Except the rack focus shots which were spot focus

Sony NEX-EA50 Test Footage auto everything on Vimeo

Nice shooting Ed, I like it. Even compressed for Vimeo it looked to me like the camera has a pretty good contrast range? Servo lenses are not known for holding focus well while zooming, in auto or manual. Does this one? You did it, but of course I don't know how much footage you did not use. And there is the vertical move down the tree that's out.

Here is my question. In manual mode. If you use the traditional way we focus with manual broadcast cameras by zooming all the way in tight, pulling a focus, and then pulling out to compose, will it hold it? I would be really surprised if it does. Servo lenses are not good at that.

I would not recommend zooming in to focus with the servo zoom. The focus may be different between the zoomed in and zoomed out position. As there is no function or facility for adjusting the back focus/flange back some focus shifts will be normal.

There are two versions for the Asia Pacific market, one with the power zoom, one with the manual zoom. The model with the manual zoom will not be available in all other regions/markets.

Alister, since you have used the camera, how severe would you find the moire and aliasing on the camera? Do you know if it compares with a 5dII or a 7D? I know that the moire and aliasing on my 550d can be quite nasty on very fine detail and in some cases ruin the shot. I can get away with such a shot if I use it at a wedding but not if I make a corporate movie.

Noa this was something I found on Youtube.Sony NEX-EA50 - Pruebas de Imagen - YouTube moire at about 4:25.

Ron Evans

thx Ron! the moire is certainly there which I knew but it seems much better controlled compared to the 5dII and that's what I wanted to know.

Hi Noa

I thought is was quite good actually..the 5DII was much more pronounced!! He goes on about your other concerns too and shucks the autofocus isn't bad either!! Watch at least from 4 to 8 minutes of the clip and I can't understand Spanish but it's easy to see the comparisons. Rolling shutter seems a little worse than the Canon.

I was trying to find a clip done at a trade fair in Europe where the moire on a guys checked shirt was really bad but apart from that poorly shot clip all the footage looks quite good!! I do really like the idea of getting to a very dim Church and being able to pull out a fast lens which you just cannot do with a normal video camera!

I still rather like this camera and it's still top of my list!!! Has anyone got a link to a manual so we can see all the functions???

Chris

I am interested in this camera too for my wife to use when we shoot shows and an alternate for my NX5U for more creative stuff. My wife normally uses our SR11 or CX700 using spot focus in the theatre since autofocus is not reliable with lighting changes but with AE shift. So semi auto use and the EA50 seems to meet this need great. Since almost all my stuff is in the theatre lack of ND's is of no concern the opposite in fact with low light being the norm so my only concern is if the stock lens gives enough performance in low light or will I have the complication( for my wife) of using a faster manual zoom lens. The NX5U ramps to f3.5 and is useless much above 9db of gain. 12db I can clean with Neat filter but thats a lengthy choice. So if my calculations are correct the EA50 at its worse would match the NX5U at 12db. ( EA50 f6.5 at 30db) If that is the cases then it should be OK. I will try a demo unit locally after Christmas.

Ron Evans

Regarding Moire I found this test on Vimeo by Ian Morris worth looking at.
The first shot is OK. The 2nd shot is very bad IMHO especially if you look at it in HD in full screen.

NEX-EA50 Moire Example on Vimeo

I think it depends, when I look at the comparison video a bit higher between the 5dII and the nex ea50 I would consider the 5DII to be very bad and the sony just "ok". I"m sure if that building would have been filmed with the 5d or a 7d you could see lines dancing all over the wall.

I am interested in this camera too for my wife to use when we shoot shows

Not sure if this is a good camera to shoot performances, it's not a matter of adding a fast lens to gain in low light performance, it will just be very difficult to maintain focus. Even if you use the stock lens this one does not maintain focus if you zoom in, lock focus and zoom out, there will be shifts in focus which is something you don't want. I think that the ac-ag90 will be a much better camera for this purpose.

Noa, good comment. It's really about right tool for the job in this case.

If you're shooting sports or performance, one has to consider whether shallow DOF is important as maintaining focus on the subject.

On the other hand, if you're shooting either in a multicam situation, you can assign "zones' to each camera based on focal plane if you're looking for shallow DOF or, at least, you can cut to another camera while one camera refocuses.

You're right when considering comparing the EA50 to other DSLRs. The problem "we" face is again right tool for the job. The additional problem is the lack of control in some situations. Imagine going into a corporate interview shoot and choosing the EA50 because you want the sDOF separation from the background but discover the person being interviewed has shirt or suit with fine lines in it. The client may find the results unacceptable. Sigh!

The problem is that the only camera's that can produce shallow dof and can have a filmic like image and which have all the attributes of a real videocamera start from at least 6000 to 7000 euro for a body only and that's not the budget I have. Everything below that prize means something is missing or doesn't function as it should. It's almost like the camera manufacturers like to punish people that don't have the real cash. :)

A solution for filming interviews with the ea50 which could display moire is to carry a Panasonic gh2 with one lens with you just in case, if it's a corporate client that expect high quality that's a extra investment you have to make I guess, even if it's just for a single shot in a whole project.

Good point Noa but none of the small Sony's hold focus either so nothing new for the EA50 and in the dark zoomed in it will be ramped close to the f6.5 limit so will not have that shallow a depth of field either. We are used to focusing at the focal length to be used that is the value of spot focus. Refocus every time the lens is zoomed in or out is normal procedure for us so again nothing new with the EA50. It will be used for close ups so any shallow depth of field will also be fine highlighting the subject.

Ron Evans

If you have to have a GH2 with lens you've added to the cost. You've also subtracted from the convenience.

B&H has the Sony FS100 for $4800 (USA) with kit lens and $4200 without.
The EA50 is $3600 with kit lens.
The Panasonic GH2 with kit lens is $700 or $500 without.

The FS100 with kit lens shows at about 3621 Euros
The EA50 with kit lens at about 2715 Euros
Yes there's the form factor difference but consider the potential issues there's diminishing advantage of the EA50.

EA still has the form factor advantage for run and gun relative to cost but for interviews likely shot on tripod, not so much.

Good point Noa but none of the small Sony's hold focus either so nothing new for the EA50
Yes, noticed that as well, only if I"m not too far from the stage it does hold focus but if I"m all the way in the back and if I have to zoom in completely it doesn't. Another thing to consider might be how the image looks and if it will not deviate too much form your other camera's when mixed.

Yes there's the form factor difference but consider the potential issues there's diminishing advantage of the EA50.

Ugh, I know, so much to think about when choosing another camera, the price for the ea50 is allready stretching my budget and a fs100 is outside that, I was not planning to get a gh2, just gave it as possible solution but you are right that the extra costs could get you a fs100 instead and be done with it.

It's not that I plan to do a lot high end jobs but I want to have a videocamera to replace my xh-a1 for those few jobs where size does matter and where you need a certain image "look" (not video but "cinema" like), something that has all the functions a real videocamera has but also the "benefits" of a dslr at a not too high price point. For my weddings I have the gear to cover all I need, every camera has it's issues as well but combined they give me a lot of options to choose what is best for which situation.

I was also thinking BMC but if you are lucky it will take months to get it and even then there is so much more to invest to make it really production ready.

I wish I could see some more real life moire examples from the ea50, it doesn't look "that" bad to me, especially compared to a 5DII but I see other owners complain it has so much aliasing and moire.

Also not to forget that you really need a quality ND filter with the ea50 and they are not cheap either.

In my case I am looking for a higher quality camera than the CX700 ( the best of the little cameras I have) but still have Spot focus and variable AE shift features that are on most consumer cameras but not the pro version. In this regard the EA50 is the only one at the moment !!! The Panasonic AC90 does not have Spot focus for instance only face detection. If it was just an alternate camera for my NX5U I would get the FS100 too but to give that to my wife to operate in semi auto............ Also the EA50 ( as can the FS100 ) use the batteries and FMU128 that I use on the NX5U and would match well too in editing I expect since the little Sony's do. I will also look at the VG30 which also may fit the bill since I do not need the audio features of the EA50 though the extra controls when I use the camera may still favour the EA50. Will have to wait and see what comes out in the new year.

Ron Evans

Hi Guys

I still love the form factor regardless and Craigs clip on moire was very minimal ... would the client actually see it?? I reckon that unless he was a builder (or smoke stack constructor) most would not even notice it!!

We tend to get very technical about our footage and see things that most people don't even notice! A tiny bit of moire in a wedding veil would really go un-noticed as the bride would really be looking at what she is doing and here flawless makeup and IF she did notice the little flicker she would more than likely attribute it to the sun in the fabric and consider it a nice effect!

What I do like about the 50 is that Sony seem to have left nothing out (Ed sent me a full manual..Thanks Ed!!) and stuff that I like and expect is all provided ...things like focus assist and push to focus means you can ask the camera to get focus and then stay in manual..you can also enlarge the area instantly to check that before locking the focus. The AC-90 sadly has left out any sort of auto audio control for their XLR channels which is a killer for me at weddings and ambient levels that change constantly ..the 50 has auto/manual on each XLR input like a pro camera should have.

Noa, also bear in mind that the Sony works much the same way as the Panasonic so a ND in bright sunshine is probably needed on both cameras. I do admit the 90 (at half the cost) is tempting but then (being a shoulder-mount person) I would have to consider a decent loupe for the LCD and a shoulder mount rig so that also adds to the price.

It would be really nice if Noa bought one and shot a few weddings with it and gave us a nice review and sample footage.

Seriously there are virtually no cameras left out there with this form factor at all...You could get a JVC HM750 for a lot more money with still with old style CCD's or a Panasonic HVX 370 again at a much higher cost and expensive P2 media so the Sony really doesn't have a lot of competition as far as form factor is concerned!

Chris

and would match well too in editing I expect since the little Sony's do. That was what I warned about a bit earlier in this thread, the nex 50 is a large sensor camera and might deviate in the way it looks from your other camera's, but as I understand it has presets that can be adjusted so you might have to tweak it.

Hi Guys

I still love the form factor regardless and Craigs clip on moire was very minimal ... would the client actually see it?? I reckon that unless he was a builder (or smoke stack constructor) most would not even notice it!!
....
Chris

look at the video at full frame HD on Vimeo and look at the brick wall of the building. This is not something that takes a discerning eye to see IMHO. A pan across a building as an establishing shot is very common.

This screenshot is not a blow up. It's what it actually looks like at 1080 on Vimeo and it's dancing like crazy when it's playing. Diagonal blue lines dancing across the building.

It would be really nice if Noa bought one and shot a few weddings with it and gave us a nice review and sample footage.

I shot my last wedding for the coming months past weekend :) Almost no-one gets married here between Januari and April and I usually use this period to catch up on my editing backlog and to do some personal projects with my camera. I think I will bite the bullet and order the nex 50 as soon as I get a few answers from creativevideo.uk in regard to warranty and also what to do if the camera malfunctions as the camera comes with full PrimeSupport, they are a uk based company and I live in Belgium so need to be sure I"m covered if something happens to the camera, it's nice to save money on a purchase this way (they are about 5 to 10% cheaper the BE stores) but not if there are a lot of issues getting the camera repaired. Their site says the camera is in stock so if I buy I could have it quite soon. I have a interesting project coming up soon (that I do for fun) with 2 guys playing the "dhol" (Dhol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhol)) and I hope to be using this camera for it, we"ll see and if that happens I surely will report how that goes.

Diagonal blue lines dancing across the building.

Do you have a canon dslr Craig you can compare these type of shots with?

Hi Noa

I have gone thru the manual and this camera ticks all my boxes so I think I will get just one for now after the silly season and still keep my two HMC82's and shoot a few weddings...if it works as I think it should then I can sell the 82's and replace with another EA-50 ...All my video lights run on Sony batteries so I already have batteries too!!

Being Summer here I have another 3 weddings in December, 6 in January and 2 in February..our slack season is June/July but I'd prefer to be able to take all 3 to a wedding and double up shots with my 2nd shooter and do some comparisons before burning bridges!! The AC-130's taught me a lesson!!

Just for interest I get the occasional moire on the 1/4" CMOS chips on the HMC's especially roof tiles and brides have never complained...at Realty shoots all windows here have fine mesh insect screens and even the HMC shows moire on those now and again when the light is right!!

Do you have a manual?? If you want a copy I can upload to my server for you?? It has tons of information

Chris

Don??

This is the simple rig I use under the HMC82's ...it's basically two 1/2" aluminium tubes with a plate in the top middle which goes into the camera tripod screw and an offset plate on the bottom middle to attach your quick release plate. At the back of the rails I have an aluminium bracket for the receiver and then in front undewr the lens hood is my mini ball head that connects to the rod of my ENG mount and takes all the front weight off the camera and transfers it to the waist belt...This works a treat on the HMC so there is no reason why you cannot use the same thing under the EA-50 ?? That way you have a quick release, plus receiver mounts (my 2nd cam has dual mounts for 2 receivers) plus you have a connection point for the sprung rod of your ENG rig...it solves all problems and costs pennies!!!

Chris

Do you have a manual?? If you want a copy I can upload to my server for you?? It has tons of information

Yes, please!

Just for interest I get the occasional moire on the 1/4" CMOS chips on the HMC's especially roof tiles and brides have never complained
My cx730 also shows signs of moire with very fine detail, but it is at an acceptable level, you notice it but only if you closely look at it.

Hi Noa

http://www.softweigh.com/ea50manual.pdf

Chris

Hey Chris, thanks for the manual. I think it'll might be some good reading with a glass of brandy and a big cigar! lol

Actually, I have the DVTec ENG rig, had it for years used it on a few different full sized cams and have pretty much figured out a way to use it on the 50. Mounting the receiver is no longer a concern, I see the sliding shoulder pad had at least and what appears to be 2 threaded holes in the top. I know one is 1/4-20, the other is either the same or a 3/8. In any case I have already drawn out a design for a bracket for my receiver. On this camera it seems to be very important for some extra weight on the back of the camera as even the Zacuto rig I have seen for it shows a relatively heavy weight mounted on the sliding pad. I still have a couple of questions but more and more it appears that the Sony NEX-EA50 will be joining me as I foray deeper into this black hole that we all so love! ;-)

Again thanks for the manual!

My NX5U also shows moire too. Did a dance show last week and the girls were wearing tops with horizontal stripes alternating black and white. In high definition all was well when downconverted showed moire. Clearly just the scaling on the interlaced ot progressive display caused this effect. The XR500, CX700 and SR11 all showed this effect. Just this one dance.

Ron Evans

Thx for the link to the manual Chris, if I only had the camera on my lap now test the functions that would be a nice way to start the holidays. :)

Does anyone have a good e-mount adapter solution for using other lenses with the EA50 or FS100? I have done some research and here is what I found and none if it sounds ideal:

1. Metabones adapter for Canon: can adjust aperture and do IS, no AF in movie mode, kind of pricey.
2. Sony LA-EA1 for A-mount: can adjust aperture (not smoothly, jumps to wide open then back down from what I hear), no AF, no IS, not expensive.
3. Sony LA-EA2 for A-mount: can smoothly adjust aperture and can do AF, no IS, traps some light going to sensor (so it can do AF), extends outward at bottom so camera for quick release on tripod would need some special mounting, not cheap.
4. Novoflex adapter for NIkon: can adjust aperture, no AF, no IS, pricey for what little it seems to do (although I know the least about this one).

Any other better e-mount adapters out there? I do not have a collection of lenses so I am not locked into getting any particular lens brand or adapter, just want the right combination. The main issue for me is being able to adjust aperture smoothly while filming since many lenses now do not have aperture ring. I looked at the e-mount lenses that are available but most of them are not fast. I want to eventually collect fast lenses to use with the EA-50 or the FS100 (still deciding between these 2 cams, but leaning towards EA-50).