Another way to smoothly adjusting the exposure is by using a variable nd filter, I have all cheap fast samyang primes that have a iris ring, they don't adjust smoothly but it's fast to set a desired f-stop (depending on what shallow dof you want) and then I can use the vari nd filter to handle my exposure.

You can always get the Samyang/Rokinono Cine primes which have silky smooth manual iris control. They come in 14mm T3, 24mm T1.5, 35mm T1.5 and 85mm T1.5 focal lengths and are excellent value for the money. You can use them with a cheap non electronic adapter.

Canon lenses step in 1/8th stop increments which is very noticeable if you change aperture mid shot. Sony E-Mount lenses step in much smaller increments, so iris changes are hard to spot.

Yes, I was looking at the Rokinon and Samyang lenses, looks like they are the same lenses when you compare them and both great bang for the buck. Any advantage of one brand over the other? What if I want to use the Sigma 30mm or 20mm? I am thinking then that I would have to get at least the Sony LA-EA1 to get aperture adjustment. (I do not want to spend $400.00 to get Metabones adapter just to get this capability). So, I guess it might be smarter to go with A-mount vs. Canon adapter to go to e-mount on EA50. Of course this would mean not being able to use Canon lenses unless I buy older, used lenses with aperture ring and then use cheap adapter.

They are the same lenses, sold under different names.

The only advantage for the Metabones adapter for me, was that I already had all sorts of Canon glass, everything from an 11-16 up to a 300 2.8. Plus, with the Metabones the image stabilization seems to work, and that is a big help for the handheld stuff.

I wish the auto focus would work with video, but it does not.

I own the Samyang 14 2.8 and it is a very sharp lens.

Ed, could you comment on the digital 2:1 zoom and its usefulness in using a long fast lens that I may use in the theatre for closeups?

Ron Evans

I've used the digital zoom on many occasions. Sony claims that the zoom is lossless, and I've not been able to tell the difference.

I've used the zoom with my 70-200 2.8 and 85 1.8.

I've not tried it with the 300, but I'm sure it would work fine. It surely looks lossless to me. I posted a sample of the digital zoom, if you missed it its at Sony NEX EA50 TEST on Vimeo

Hard to tell when it's digital zoomed
Ed

Thanks Ed. I had missed that.

Ron Evans

I think I will bite the bullet and order the nex 50 as soon as I get a few answers from creativevideo.uk in regard to warranty and also what to do if the camera malfunctions as the camera comes with full PrimeSupport, they are a uk based company and I live in Belgium so need to be sure I"m covered if something happens to the camera, it's nice to save money on a purchase this way (they are about 5 to 10% cheaper the BE stores) but not if there are a lot of issues getting the camera repaired.

Noa, I have no idea if this shop (Sony NEX-EA50EH (http://www.buchmann.ch/catalog/product_info.php?currency=EUR&products_name=&products_id=31982&osCsid=09728e8d1ff98f457b1d46eee257a39d&chf.x=12&chf.y=0)) is any good, but when you check Their price in euro, it's very sharp. I'm interested in buying the ea50 too, and looking for a good price as well. Nevertheless, service is an important value as well.
Btw. Also living in Belgium.

Joris

Ha, from Halen :) That's a half hour drive from my place, I found a Dutch supplier that's cheaper then the uk one, not much but still about 200 euro cheaper then the cheapest I could find in Belgium. (3378 euro in NL vs 3569 euro in BE)
The Dutch supplier is about 2,5 hours drive so in case of a issue with the camera and if urgent I could drive over to hand deliver it. It's not the first time I buy a camera in the Netherlands.

Not sure if it's allowed to directly link to suppliers that are not dvinfo sponsors but your link does show a very sharp price, only it's a Swiss store which is about 7 hours drive from my place so post delivery is the only option.

It's easy to have a store nearby that can give you a replacement camera so often spending a few hundred euro"s more can be a good investment, only I have enough back up camera's to finish any job I do so I can wait if necessary.

Maybe if we both buy at the same time the store will give a additional discount :D

What will you be using the camera for?

Just received mine yesterday. I have to say that I am pleased with how good this camera looks, even at +18! It has a solid feel and is balanced with the supplied lens. Considering the price, and my client base, this is an excellent purchase. I also purchased the 50mm, f1.8 lens. One note, FCP 7 does not like the 60p media. I probably won't shoot it because I don't like the look. If I do ClipWrap and Premiere have no problem with it. I installed the supplied Clip Browser software and I still need to figure out all of the features.

On my camera 25p or 50p looks exactly the same with the only difference you will get stutter if you pan to quick which is not the case with 50p, 50p also slows down much better so for me there is no reason to film in 25p anymore. I"m interested to see how you perceive the "moire" issue, not everybody seems to be too happy about it.

To me 60p has a "video" like quality that reminds me of televised sports or soap operas. I've seen major motion pictures on TV's that up the rate to 60p and it looks like it was shot on video. Not sure if there is the same correlation in Pal. Of course I can test that (: I hadn't thought about the slo-motion benefit of 60p.
Based on what I've seen uploaded, there is moire, but it seems to be less than some other DSLR footage I've seen and edited. I think it's reasonable for my clients. Of course I'll know more as I have opportunity to use it. I plan to use this camera mostly for interviews and probably some b-roll. I have a Sony Z7 that has a much faster and a bit longer zoom lens, not to mention a much more usable servo zoom.

But both 30p and 60p are progressive formats with the second one having the double amount of full frames, so the only difference is that 30p will stutter more when you fast pan, do you feel it is the stutter only that gives that "cinema" feeling?

Hi Noa

Seems like we have the 50 coming in downunder now..I found a supplier over East for AUS$4060 with free delivery which isn't bad at all. I wonder what Global Media will have them for?? Are you buying locally or from the UK?

Chris

But both 30p and 60p are progressive formats with the second one having the double amount of full frames, so the only difference is that 30p will stutter more when you fast pan, do you feel it is the stutter only that gives that "cinema" feeling?

With the Hobbit being filmed at 48fps there is a lot of info on how we perceive frame rates. I think the research show that frame rates below 48fps appear as "unreal" to us where as frame rates above that level are perceived as real. This is why 50i/60i which are field or exposure rates with 50p and 60p being full frames at the same camera exposure rates are perceived as "real" or video like. The temporal rate for 50i is the same as 50p likewise 60i and 60p the progressive version just happens to have a full frame of pixels rather than half the vertical resolution of a field. The lower the frame rate the more unreal !!!! This logic I understand. What I don't understand is using 24p for a documentary !!!! Sort of saying this isn't really true !!!!

Ron Evans

Hi Ron

24p is "supposed" to look more filmic so why use it for a doc or something as standard as a choral group performing..I have a mate also in Canada who shoots everything at 24p and his main shoots are choral groups that his wife performs in which really don't need to be filmic at all. Maybe it's just a gimmick that people use to make their videos look different? At weddings I use a lot of stedicam so I really need to shoot double frame rate purely to get decent slomo rather than anything else...even at 25P or 30P I find that you have to be careful with judder during pans...as we shoot PAL here we only have 25P currently which is decidedly slow and juddery when there is movement.

Just looking at the 50's specs in the manual and I really love the fact that it has a focus enlarge button right on the grip ...that's clever!! I always have to hunt for my button during weddings on the HMC's ..I rather like the variable XLR sensitivy too...a big improvement from having either -60db or -50db only.

It hard to see on the manual but do I detect a couple of threads on the top side of the slideout shoulder mount pad?? That would be great for some extra back weight or even sling your receivers off the back

Chris

There are three holes with two having threads, standard 1/4 20.. I have created a weight that fits on that space and has a threaded mount, so it all balances. I don't use it all the time, much of what I shoot is on sticks, or news where I'm off and running, but it's nice to have it if I'm going to be shooting lots of sholder stuff.

Yeah that was a bit of a concern for me as well but Ed did mention in another post here somewhere about the threaded hole. Now that I've seen the manual, I did design a plate to mount my wireless receiver to and that plate will be mounted to one of those holes with a 1/4-20 wingnut that I have been saving in my "misc kit box" for more time than I care to remember. I've even got a piece that I can fit with the help of my sons press as a VHS pin to keep everything in place.
Also from reading the manual and actually seeing where the controls and buttons are located it has made me much more content about the fact that there are no NDs. It appears that the ISO, shutter speed and iris can all be changed very quickly. At least it looks that way. I'll not be ordering until after I return from my vaca so probably not until the end of Jan but unless something else hits me like a ton of bricks or I win many thousands at the casino the NEX-EA50U will be in my case soon enough.

Chris, the control specs are very similar to my NX5U which also has the advantage of dual SD/Memory card slots ( only one on the EA50). It is starting to look attractive for me in that it gives me a large sensor version that uses the same batteries, FMU128, Lanc controllers etc of the NX5U. It also has the things that would make it usable by my wife who is used to me setting the AE shift point and her using the spot focus. Also has 60p which I would love to go to on all my cameras. Just have to come to terms with the price !!!! Useful thing that is missing from the EA50 that is on the NX5U is smooth gain switching.

Ron Evans

Are you buying locally or from the UK?

I send a mail to the UK supplier the 19th in the morning with some questions about warranty etc but have not received a reply yet, then I send a mail to the NL supplier the 20th (which is a bit cheaper) and received a reply 2 hours later. I have to say I was a bit tempted by that link that Joris provided to that Swiss supplier so I send them a mail as well yesterday morning but they did not reply yet, they are over 300 euro's cheaper which is a lot but if the camera malfunctions that's a problem as they are located over 700 km from my place and you need to send by post, I"m also not sure if the camera would be returned after repair free of charge.

The fact alone that I got so prompt and to the point reply from the Dutch supplier I think I will place an order next week there, they are located about 2,5 hour drive from me so not a big deal, I often had weddings this year that where 2 hour drives from where I live.

This EA50 thread has now morphed into a dedicated EA50 forum:

Sony NEX-EA50 (all variants) Forum at DVinfo.net (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-nex-ea50-all-variants/)

Please consider starting *new* topics instead of piling onto this one -- thanks!

Noa, I have no idea if this shop (Sony NEX-EA50EH (http://www.buchmann.ch/catalog/product_info.php?currency=EUR&products_name=&products_id=31982&osCsid=09728e8d1ff98f457b1d46eee257a39d&chf.x=12&chf.y=0)) is any good, but when you check Their price in euro, it's very sharp.

I just found out that because Switzerland is not a part of the European Union you will have to pay customduties and taxes when ordering from Belgium meaning that "sharp" prize will be at the same level as when you buy it here. I"ll be placing my order tomorrow, the Dutch store did not have any stock but the camera was on order, they didn't know when it would arrive but since the UK seem to have stock I guess the first camera's should start to arrive beginning Januari.

I just placed the order, lets just hope I won't regret it...

You won't regret it. I have one. It rocks. The lossless digital zoom will blow you away as it works with primes and zooms including the kit lens. Output is extremely clean, both for video and stills. I have a VG 20 that shoots superb video and stills. Ditto for the 50. Sony has a winner here IMHO. Thus far, the $$ has been very well spent.

If you compare the image from the nex50 to your vg20, is there much difference?

The 50 is cleaner both in video and stills. I just shot some carolers with it and the output is really good. I'm betting there are update firmware and chip set keyed to the sensor, which is the same one as in the 20. The rig is very substantial. People say it's really light but...that's not really the case. With the kit lens, it definitely has heft. The built in handle and shoulder mount are terrific. It's serious hardware without doubt and...the reaction of people seeing this is pretty amazing. Very sleek and somewhat "dangerous" looking in a Bauhaus sort of way.

I use ancient nikkors and with the digital zoom, the lenses hold focus. HTH.

Hi Noa

I certainly don't think you will regret it at all...I'm following your lead and placing an order for one after the silly season (everything is crazy 2 days from Christmas!!) It also seems like Don Bloom will go ahead so I think you can be very confident and look forward to the new gear. It's even harder for me!!! I have been with Panasonic for over 20 years so for me to jump ship after all those years must mean that the 50 is worth changing teams for.

It will be great to also find out what faster lens works well at receptions and at low light Churches.

Let us know when your camera arrives and tell us your initial impressions

Chris

I use ancient nikkors and with the digital zoom, the lenses hold focus. HTH.

Beside my Samyangs (also called rokinons) I do have a pair of nikon nikkors here, I only need to find out what type of adapter I need to buy, I don't need the metabones one as all my lenses don't communicate to the camera body anyway but it's interesting that the digital zoom gives zoom capability to prime lenzes. I guess any cheap adapter you find on ebay from Chinese origin will do, no?

It will be great to also find out what faster lens works well at receptions and at low light Churches.

Well, basically any fast lens as the principle is the same as with a dslr, only your dof becomes very narrow in that case making it much more difficult to maintain focus. I"ll be very interested to see how the iso values compare to my dslr, meaning if 1600 iso on both camera's have the same sensitivity. With my 550d 1600 iso is about as far as I go and 3200 iso if I have no other choice but on the nex ea50 I read that up to 5000 Iso is usable. That would give you the opportunity to stop down the iris a bit in darker areas so you get a larger dof.

The more I look at the spec the more I think the EA50 is like a larger single sensor NX5. Has most of the same features, missing a few and has a few more !!. It misses out the smooth gain switching ( which I use all the time on the NX5U ) has much the same assignable buttons, batteries FMU128 but lacks the dual SD slots. Big gains for me are Spot focus and histogram. If the low light performance with stock lens can match the little 1/3" Sony like my CX700 its a winner. Will try a demo after Christmas. The CX700 ramps to f3.4 full zoom at 21db of gain so it depends how close f6.3 at 30db is on the EA50 !!! The NX5U also ramps to 3.4 on full zoom but is almost not usable without a lot of noise reduction afterwards beyond 12db.

Ron Evans

but lacks the dual SD slots

I read that the Sony supports the new mirroring memory stick (MS-PX64/32/16) which allows dual recording onto one card, have not seen prizes yet.

Yeah 1 slot is a bummer but keep in mind that the FMU128 unit (at least according to what I read earlier when it first came out) can record up to 11 hours so using that as primary and cards which do 2hrs50mins (32gig) as backup could be expensive initally but cost effective and pay for itself in less than a year.
HOWEVER, this camera IMO should have had dual slots and the issue would be a non-issue.
Oh well, as we have all said before, there is no such thing as a perfect camera. :-(

Yeah 1 slot is a bummer

It doesn't need a dual slot as it supports the new mirroring memory stick which gives you a backup while recording, with a 64gb (32gb mirror) card you should be able to cover almost any event that lasts over several hours continuously.

I cannot really understand how the FMU128 could be worth it. It costs 10x as much as a 64gb SD card and also more than an Atamos Ninja 2. And with the ninja you get the benefit of better picture as well.
It's really priced way beyond it's value.

In videoland a lot of stuff is overprized, that's often the prize you have to pay for professional accesoires. At least the nex ea50 comes at a normal prize.

I cannot really understand how the FMU128 could be worth it. It costs 10x as much as a 64gb SD card and also more than an Atamos Ninja 2. And with the ninja you get the benefit of better picture as well.
It's really priced way beyond it's value.

Well after just checking B&H prices the Ninja 2 is $995.00 (usd) and the FMU is $640 (USD) and records 11 hours of AVCHD where as the Ninja records to Apple ProRes or Avid DNxHD. So there seems to be quite a price difference plus if one is doing multiple cameras then the cost goes up big time.
I like the Ninja but frankly for the kind of work I personally do, it's not worth the money and honestly neither is the FMU. Probably just get some 64gig mirroring cards.

Also keep in mind something is only overpriced if it doesn't do the job you want it to. This is true of everything we buy.

Ah, then it's a bit difference. Here in Sweden the difference is much less for some reason.
And, also it's hard not to compare the price to that of other SSD disks and SD cards.

I've never had an SD card fail. Ok, I was drunk and accidentally erased one once. ;)

Sony include a 16gb dual Memory Stick with the EA50. I cannot find a way to set it to dual or use the full 16gb as a single card which you are supposed to be able to. It says 43 minutes available so I suppose that means it acts as a 8gb dual.

I cannot really understand how the FMU128 could be worth it. It costs 10x as much as a 64gb SD card and also more than an Atamos Ninja 2. And with the ninja you get the benefit of better picture as well.
It's really priced way beyond it's value.

Well I got my FMU128 when I bought my NX5U several years ago and at that time there was a 50% discount when you bought the FMU128 with the NX5U ( was about $400 ) so was worth it then and I use all the time now. At the moment in NA, FMU128 is about $650 and the Ninja 2 about $1200 with a hard disc. I agree Ninja 2 is a better deal but still almost twice the cost of the FMU128. The other thing that I have noted is that the FMU128 will transfer to the PC twice as fast as a class 10 SD card and not quite as fast as the hard drive Sony cams like the XR500.

Ron Evans

In Belgium the Ninja and the sony fmu are the same price (both almost 1000 euro and for the Ninja that's excl harddisc), if your into video, Europe is not always a fun place to live in.

Hi guys,

I'm thinking of getting the EA50 to replace my Canon XA10 as my main camera. I'm also looking for a cheaper backup camera that will produce a comparable image. Is the VG20 going to be the best option?

Or does anyone have any better suggestions?

Cheers for any info :)

I've done one shoot where I had a VG20 as the secondary angle to the EA50. Although, due to the VG20 almost being out of batteries it was set a bit wrong which caused some weirdness, the pictures worked well together. I guess a NEX5 would work too as an even cheaper option.
(See my first impressions thread, for more info and videos)

As far as I know the vg20 has a fixed picture profile meaning you have to tweak your ea50 image to match the vg20. That doesn't leave you with many options when shooting if you want to achieve a certain look in camera. Why don't you keep your xa10 as second camera? You have to consider that the ea50 can be compared with a dslr, the slow stock lens does give you some focus room to work with but once you start adding faster lenzes you"ll be happy you have one camera that can keep everything sharp front to back, a lot depends ofcourse what you will be shooting, for weddings f.i. I certainly would go for the nex50 and xa10 combo.

Hmm I was thinking that but I thought the picture would have been too different due to the totally different sized sensors. Could be wrong..

The 50 amd 20 are very closely matched as I have both and used both on a night time shoot a week ago. (Video will be forth coming.) The output of the 50 is better then the 20, especially in low light, as the support tech, as stated before in another post, is probably better then in the slighly older 20. The other thing that's interesting is the fact the still aspect ration now matchers the video in the 50, something not true in the 20. The 50's a beast but a good beast and the digital zoom is something that changes the game regarding primes and zooms because speed is not lost in using this tech. The system performs without issue and, when matched with the 20, the combination works without issue.

Last but not least, one finds that using primes extensively on a shoot becomes a no brainer thanks to the framing ability of the digital zoom.

I did some tests with the digital zoom and the supplied 17-200mm lens. I shot fully zoomed in optically (200mm) and then added 2x digital (400mm). The fully zoomed in digital is soft and full of macroblock artifacts. To me it's not usable. I also did the test using the 50mm f1.8 prime with the same results. Image grabs from the 200mm test are attached.

Comparing the stills at the same size, in Photoshop , the digital version is more in focus and cleaner so it does a good job I think. I don't see any real problems other than some edges when blown up that would be acceptable I think in that regard both images look the same. What were the shooting parameters?

Ron Evans

Were you looking at both at 100% in Photoshop? If you blow the non-digital zoom photo up to the same size (200 %) then you only have 2 Mega Pixels to work with and it looks worse. If you keep both at 100% then the no digital zoom image is noticeably sharper. I expected the same results as you would get in zooming into a 14mp digital still or 2 to 4K video and that is not what I see. This is even more evident in the moving video.

Here is a YouTube version of the video NEX Test 1 - YouTube You can see that as I zoom in the image softens noticeably. I think that if I kept the focal length at 200mm and physically moved the camera in to the 400mm digital zoom framing then it would be noticeably sharper.

I used the digital zoom extensively on a video I shot of carolers. No problem whatsoever.

Eventhough it's compressed I do see a loss in resolution when it starts to zoom in, ugh, I really hope I won't have to wait too long for the camera, there are some more user videos appearing on vimeo and youtube and some look great and some not, I saw one yesterday where there where quite bad interlacing artifacts but I saw others where there practically was no sign of it. Now the same with this digital zoom, Robert says it's no issue while I do see issues in Lee's video. As soon as I get the camera I"m out for a whole day test-riding it so I can see for myself what it actually can or cannot do.