This guy has followed up. Apparently he got some hate mail. This is what he posted on craigslist making the same offer.

_______

Apology for the150.00 day thing, but the offer stands.

Reply to: gigs-199859110@craigslist.org
Date: 2006-08-28, 10:13AM EDT


I have a lot of this stuff lying around I've been out for a while and this stuff was just gathering dust. I assure you I'm am neither a trust fund baby or a kook. I've just been out a while and looking to get back in by offering a good deal to the right project (yes I'll be a little picky).

So I'm sorry if I offended any of you "Real DPs" but I assure you none of my equipment is stolen from school, I've been out of school for about 20 years. And if you are as good as you say you are you have nothing to fear from me.

If you want to make a low budget horror (I also have about 3 gallons of fake blood), or Any other type of film (no porno) I'll talk, if you want to send me emails insulting my family tree and telling me where to stick my thumb - I'll read them too, they are amusing.

This offer is temporary one maybe two projects then I assure you I'll raise my rates so as not to "dilute the industry" (though it seems to be pretty watered down at the moment.)

Please note: You must include me in the package with credit as DP or Gaffer. You can't rent and sublease as one guy suggested. (one guy wanted to rent and rerent my stuff.)

Here's the list again:

For 150.00 a day (gas and meals extra Yes I do have an SUV big enough to carry all this - I'll take more if you offer)

_________
and he lists the stuff below again.

He posted one more time though with the following comments:

________________________________
from the "150 DP"

Reply to: gigs-199978136@craigslist.org
Date: 2006-08-28, 1:58PM EDT

Yes I realize that I and my equipment are worth way more than 150.00/day. This is only a temporary thing, and I'm sick of being underbid too. I've been out of the game for a while (mostly in LA). So to the guy posting who does feel like he has something to fear - I make you this proposal: You saw my list of equipment and I can provide you with a list of valid credits going back 12 or so years. So, Hook me up and I'll bring my toys to the show and we can both play. I was charging 300.00 to 600.00 a day when I shot on film. Until I can make the contacts this is what I got.

The offer is good only for a short time and yes the response has been good.

Sheeze- a side note: Please, no more death threats or insults to my family tree. I'm really not worth that kind of effort.




This is someone offering their services:

"All this 150.00/day

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply to: gigs-199695977@craigslist.org
Date: 2006-08-27, 8:40PM EDT


All this with a DP 150.00/day Cash - no deferred.

Canon XL-2
2.5K Luxarc light = to a (6k Hemmi) w/ Highroller stand.
4 1k (2 moles 1 desti 1 arri)
3 650 Arri lights
4 C stands w/6 arms
4 25' stingers

3 Black flags 18"x24"
2 Black flags 18"x12"
1 silk 18"x12"
1 screen 18"x12"

Profogger Smoke machine

Fostex DAT w/ Sony Mic and 14' carbon fiber boom.
2 Shure UHF wireless mics.
3 sound blankets.
TS2 Timecode slate
1 50' XLR combo cable.
3 25' XLR cables

4 10 pound sandbags.
2 25 pound sand bags.

Port 'o jib

Miller Tripod w/ Miller 50 head.
3 Caster Tripod dolly

Wheelchair Dolly.


no -- it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

"

I guess someone figured out how to send a dead fish via e-mail.

From the Chicago craigslist:

"I need a DP who is well versed in shooting HD/DVC PRO 50 for a few hours on Saturday. Pay is $100.00

Please contact me asap if interested.

Ben"

Even in a tiny midwestern market, 2/3" DVCPro50 experience commands $40 an hour, half day minimum. And, that is still VERY low, in my humble opinion...

This is cute:

"Make my music video!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply to: octopuss212@yahoo.com
Date: 2006-08-28, 2:19PM EDT


I am a semi-famous alternative hip-hop/dance artist signed to an independent lable with four videos under my belt looking to put together the next two. I am in search a very artistic, creative , visionary of a director to work with. If you think you are that person and are looking for a project for your reel or in need of exposure of your talents this is a great opportunity for you. There will also be a PR person working the video to make sure it gets maximum exposure. My last video got 50,000 hits on youtube in less than 2 weeks. The last director i worked with is now getting more job offers do to his incredible talent and the exposure he got.
you must:
*be resourcefull and know how to work with an extremely low budget
*passionate,creative and hard working
*be good at returning phone calls
*easy to work with and experience in collaborating
*own your digital camera and have access to most necessities for filming
*a reel of some sort, some way for me to check your previous work

**feel free to tell me more about yourself, your goals and other works you admire.
also any question..if your interested we can chat more.

thank you for taking the time to read my posting "

Semi-famous my ass. Clever how he never mentions pay or lack thereof directly. I'm just inferring, of course.

"United States based full service film, digital cinema, television, video and radio production company, NAME REMOVED, INC. is searching the globe to fill the multiple positions of Executive Producer on the following feature film projects (removed links).

The Executive Producer(s) must have 3-5 years feature film experience, know how to close the deal and contacts that stretch from United States and beyond. These individuals must be team players and understand that our creative vision at NAME REMOVED, INC. is one of quality first, and not an attitude of just to get it in the can.

The philosophy of NAME REMOVED, INC. has always been, and will be that each "frame" and "shot" must be a work of ART. If you were to extract only one single frame from a project, enlarged it to a realistic image size on canvas, you would have an intense, deep, creative visual work of ART (period)

A lot of junk movies are produced each day in the feature film industry. Many mindsets are to get it on DVD and be happy. We are not happy with that mentality and will never change our view that it takes drive, determination and passion to see a project from conception through finished project, and have first hit the BIG SCREEN. Executive producer(s) that see the "big picture" are the types we seek for our NAME REMOVED, INC. team. If you have your own goals, vision or want to "change" things, then keep moving forward to the next production company because we will close the door without any hesitation or remorse.

Please forward via e-mail your cover letter, resume, references and other criteria to NAME REMOVED for review, and you will be contacted if we see a long term fit in our feature film goals."

They then provide links to several MySpace.com pages. Good luck, guys.

With terms like this I wish them a speedy divorce and high legal expenses. $500 for nearly 8 hours plus editing and you get paid on completion!

And they're picky about camera and reel too!


Videographer Needed for Saturday, Sept. 2 Wedding in Queens

Reply to: gigs-200766342@craigslist.org
Date: 2006-08-30, 4:37AM EDT


Videographer needed for a wedding this Saturday in Queens from 8:15 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. Shooting and editing required. Pay is $500 and will be paid upon completion of fully edited video. Please let me know what kind of camera you use. Please provide links to any work you have online.

this is in or around Queens
no -- it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: $500

I found the original ad on August 24th. They're still looking. See the ad they posted today. I guess after not finding anyone they thought they should LOWER the offer. Now it's only $50 for a 15 hour day! That's little more than $3/hr!

If you wait any longer it might go down to $1/hr or maybe you'll be the "intern" to get to do this for Free.
__________


Cameraman/Camerawoman AND Production Intern Needed Sept 8-15 (Midtown)

Reply to: fashion.recruitment@gmail.com
Date: 2006-08-30, 6:50PM EDT


Cameraman/Camerawoman:
New York based fashion company is looking to hire a cameraman/camerawoman from September 8-15 to film runway shows in NYC.
No equipment needed. This is a temporary position. You must commit to the entire 8 days (Sept 8-15) and will be working very long hours, typically 7.30am - 10:30pm.
Students and professionals welcome. $50 a day (cash).
Please send your resume and sample work to fashion.recruitment@gmail.com

- - also - -

Fashion Production INTERNSHIP:
Unpaid internship for fashion video production company in nyc. We are looking for energetic, responsible hard-working candidates. Duties include assisting cameraman with equipment at runway shows while and helping producer with various daily tasks.
Must be available Sept 8-15
Please send your resume to fashion.recruitment@gmail.com


Well, you don't need your own equipment but they're looking for 8 consecutive days at $5/hr !!!! Do the math.
They DO want to see your reel. MickyDs pays more and doesn't ask to see my past burgers.
----------------------------


Cameraman/Camerawoman needed Sept 8-15 (Midtown)

Reply to: fashion.recruitment@gmail.com
Date: 2006-08-24, 2:41PM EDT


New York based fashion company is looking to hire a cameraman/camerawoman from September 8-15 to film runway shows in NYC.
No equipment needed. This is a temporary position. You must commit to the entire 8 days (Sept 8-15) and will be working very long hours, typically 7.30am - 10:30pm.
Students and professionals welcome. $75 a day.

Please send your resume and sample work to fashion.recruitment@gmail.com

He's posting every day and he keeps coming up with ways to lower his price. He wonders why people are trying to talk him down? It's EXACTLY why low balling doesn't work. For 20 days he'll go lower. Put him on the 5 year plan and I guess it's $1 a day. He'll go lower for Bloody t&a. I wonder if you do a snuff film where he's the victim would he do it for free? In a previous ad he said the price was good for all of September (after which does he lower it again?).


DP with camera (XL-2) lights, and sound 150/day (125.00 for 20 days +)

Reply to: gigs-201474822@craigslist.org
Date: 2006-08-31, 5:54PM EDT


1 DP or Gaffer (me) and all this for 150.00 day - firm (you believe people are trying to talk me down?) Or on a longer project (20 day shoot or more) 125.00/day. and here's the insane part 110.00 if it's a horror (Bloody t&A) over 20 days.

This guy has followed up. Apparently he got some hate mail. This is what he posted on craigslist making the same offer.

_______

Apology for the150.00 day thing, but the offer stands.

Reply to: gigs-199859110@craigslist.org
Date: 2006-08-28, 10:13AM EDT


I have a lot of this stuff lying around I've been out for a while and this stuff was just gathering dust. I assure you I'm am neither a trust fund baby or a kook. I've just been out a while and looking to get back in by offering a good deal to the right project (yes I'll be a little picky).

So I'm sorry if I offended any of you "Real DPs" but I assure you none of my equipment is stolen from school, I've been out of school for about 20 years. And if you are as good as you say you are you have nothing to fear from me.

If you want to make a low budget horror (I also have about 3 gallons of fake blood), or Any other type of film (no porno) I'll talk, if you want to send me emails insulting my family tree and telling me where to stick my thumb - I'll read them too, they are amusing.

This offer is temporary one maybe two projects then I assure you I'll raise my rates so as not to "dilute the industry" (though it seems to be pretty watered down at the moment.)

Please note: You must include me in the package with credit as DP or Gaffer. You can't rent and sublease as one guy suggested. (one guy wanted to rent and rerent my stuff.)

Here's the list again:

For 150.00 a day (gas and meals extra Yes I do have an SUV big enough to carry all this - I'll take more if you offer)

_________
and he lists the stuff below again.

He posted one more time though with the following comments:

________________________________
from the "150 DP"

Reply to: gigs-199978136@craigslist.org
Date: 2006-08-28, 1:58PM EDT

Yes I realize that I and my equipment are worth way more than 150.00/day. This is only a temporary thing, and I'm sick of being underbid too. I've been out of the game for a while (mostly in LA). So to the guy posting who does feel like he has something to fear - I make you this proposal: You saw my list of equipment and I can provide you with a list of valid credits going back 12 or so years. So, Hook me up and I'll bring my toys to the show and we can both play. I was charging 300.00 to 600.00 a day when I shot on film. Until I can make the contacts this is what I got.

The offer is good only for a short time and yes the response has been good.

Sheeze- a side note: Please, no more death threats or insults to my family tree. I'm really not worth that kind of effort.

Major JERK! What DEMANDS!

__________________________

videographer (Battery Park)

Reply to: gigs-203007156@craigslist.org
Date: 2006-09-04, 8:40PM EDT


Videogrpaher needed immediately for Fashion Week. We will be covering fashion week for our fashion/beauty magazine show. Ideal candidate will have had lots of experience shooting on video and will work well under pressure and very quickly.

Videographers will be covering top notch designers as well as up and coming new stars of the fashion world in New York for fashion week. Videogrpaher should have his or her own camera and microphone. Camera should be updated and broadcast quality.
This is an unpaid position ideally for a recent graduate of a film program. Please send a reel attached to your email. Only those that we are interested in will be contacted.
This is a great oppurtunity for someone to add Fashion week to their reel.
Tapes will belong to our producers of the show.
Only serious enquiries please as this time of the show is close.

For copyright reasons (it's another forum) I'll just post the link.
http://www.indianapolisfilm.net/forums/index.php?topic=3013.0

One day I have to try posting something this stupid and demanding and see if anyone actually responds!

XL2 Operator Needed - Experienced - 4 hour shoot - $50

Reply to: gigs-206601492@craigslist.org
Date: 2006-09-13, 12:52AM EDT


We are shooting a Presentation - Cannon XL2 - Steady Shoot/Fixed Camera Location - Expecting 4-6 hrs on weekend (9/23 or 9/24). We are expecting high quality, looking for person who can leverage XL2 to its best.
Pls respond with experience details.

I just found it very intruiging, not totally video related, but funny none the less.


I haven't heard the words 'Mac Daddy' in a long time.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://266.careersite.com/candidate/processcandviewjob?docid=A0313-31CE7&source=search

These people offer NOTHING in return.

"EDITING
Reply to: job-208842666@craigslist.org
Date: 2006-09-18, 9:58AM CDT


I am looking for someone that can edit VHS tapes and put into one DVD. I have several VHS tapes of my mom ministering and I'm trying to take the high points of each and make a mini intro movie. (ex: you seem them in various churches when special events are coming to their church)


* Job location is HOUSTON
* Compensation: 0000000
* no -- Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
* no -- Please, no phone calls about this job!
* no -- Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.
* no -- Reposting this message elsewhere is NOT OK."

This is SAD. $20 for camerperson with own camera and light kit in NYC! This for a "nationally syndicated entertainment tv show"
________________________________________


Nationally Syndicated Entertainment TV Show seeks Mini DV Cameraman (Midtown)

Reply to: gigs-214136486@craigslist.org
Date: 2006-09-30, 12:14AM EDT


Backstage Pass Productions is looking for a talented and energetic videographer with his or her own gear to shoot segments for us in Manhattan from Thursday October 5th through Saturday October 14th.

Our nationally syndicated entertainment TV show ( Backstage Pass ) visits New York City once a month to shoot an entire episode. We would like to find a freelance videographer to be our steady camera operator when we're in NY,

You should have your own prosumer MINI DV camera along with a lighting kit. During this particular visit to New York, we have set visits scheduled with "Law & Order", "Twenty Good Years" and several other network shows which will be featured on our program.

You must be professional and reliable. You must be able to represent "Backstage Pass" in a professional manner.

Our budget for this position is $20 per hour, plus food and travel expenses,...subway fare or gas money. You will be guaranteed a minimum of ( 15 ) hours.

Please send us an email with your name, contact information, experience level, and the type of gear you own and shoot with.

Backstage Pass Productions
www.mybackstagepass.tv

no -- it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: $20 Per Hour

So they can afford to fly you to LA but WON'T pay you for the travel days! Are they paying for a place to stay and food? If they're this cheap why not limit the craigslist advertising to LA. This ad is in NYC! So they're willing to spend money on everything but your pay which works out to around minimum wage.


Cameraman/Camerawoman needed Oct 15-19

Reply to: fashion.recruitment@gmail.com
Date: 2006-10-05, 8:30AM EDT


Cameraman/Camerawoman needed October 15-19

New York based fashion company is looking to hire a cameraman/camerawoman from October 15 - 19 to film runway shows and fashion parties in Los Angeles.
No equipment needed. This is a temporary position. You must commit to the entire 5 days and will be working very long hours, typically 10 am – 11 pm.

If based in New York, you will be traveling to LA on Oct 14 and returning Oct 20. You will not be paid for travel days.
Students and professionals welcome. $75 a day.
Please send your resume and SAMPLE WORK, REEL and/or WEBSITE LINK to fashion.recruitment@gmail.com
thank you

$70 a day for DoP, hdv camera, adapter AND lenses? 5 week shoot... Anything else?

_______________________________________________________

Reply to: gigs-204634326@craigslist.org
Date: 2006-09-08, 10:22AM PDT


I'm looking for someone that has experience as a cinematographer, has a HVX200, HD100 (no SSE problems) or plans on buying a HD250. He should also own a M2 Adapter and 35mm lenses.

Please send a resume, equipment list, a phone number and a link to your reel.

The job will pay between 3,500 - 4,500 depending on experience and equipment. the shoot will last five weeks.

Here's one. . .

Not only a no-pay, but you get to spend a couple grand (I'm guessing. . .I don't know how film stuff is priced exactly)

"Film DP w/Gear AATON or H16 etc for Portfolio 30 sec spot NON PAYING!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply to: gigs-219970539@craigslist.org
Date: 2006-10-13, 9:03AM EDT


THIS IS A NON PAYING GIG

30 Sec Spec Spot.
Outdoors, very simple, I just want a film look.
We will split the cost of film & processing.
Humorous spec spot for McDonalds.
If you don't have any humor on your reel, this is a good opportunity.

Please send links to FILM reels. FILM is not spelled "VIDEO"
If you don't have a FILM reel, and don't own your own 16mm camera,
you are not qualified to apply.

Please don't email me telling me you have a DVX or XL2 that has
a "film look". I want FILM for this spot.

Much thanks for your time, and I look forward to hearing from you...


this is in or around NYC

no -- it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

Compensation: Warm fuzzy feeling"

Ahh, so you're supposed to supply the camera AND cover half the costs to do HIS SPEC SPOT!

I don't think many peope BUY 16MM cameras and then work for free. People might RENT a camera. Obviously this guy's looking to welch someone elses gear, time, money.

If he were serious he'd find a good DP and offer to cover all the costs including the rental.

If he's got no money he should be looking at 8mm (there are decent semi pro 8mm often used in lower budget music videos for example).

And here's a response to that post, Josh...

RE: Film DP w/Gear AATON or H16 etc for Portfolio 30 sec spot NON PAYI

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply to: gigs-219976500@craigslist.org
Date: 2006-10-13, 9:26AM EDT


I own an AATON, but if you can't pay you aren't qulified to hire. DP isn't spelled WARM FUZZY FEELING. Call Karma boy he might be able to hook you up. At least you can stroke each others' egos.


no -- it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Man, some people got more brass than a marching band!

It's bad enough people want you to do their dream movie for free. What motive would someone have to shoot someone's audition tape for free. What's even more absurd is if this person is looking to market themselves why would they want an amature production?



Need Video Producer To Shoot an Audition Tape

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply to: gigs-220666992@craigslist.org
Date: 2006-10-14, 5:49PM EDT


Student or film school graduate - or self-taught photographer who can shoot a 5-15 minute video to be used as an audition tape needed.

The video will be about an instructor in yoga, strength training, etc. with a couple of students. There will be sound.

This is an UNPAID position. If you are interested please contact me asap as we would like to meet tomorrow to discuss logistics, etc.

I just don't see any way this could not turn out awful:

"The making of the party that is the movie... (East Village)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply to: franimal25@gmail.com
Date: 2006-10-20, 3:01PM EDT


I'm throwing a character driven costume party at a swanky little bar in the East Village, and am putting together a production crew to film the party whilst it's happening. While the movie is meant to organically develop with whatever choices the cast makes, there will also be some added dramatic elements, and twists.

Looking for members of the production crew:

Makeup - doesn't have to be fancy, just fun, and helps get people in character.
Lighting - looking for someone smart and creative.
Wardrobe - we will have props and accessories to doll out at will.
Camera - if you have a video camera, that'd be an added bonus. if you're good at cinematography and composition, you're right for the job.
Director - will have the freedom to jump in and direct real live people at will.
Sound - hopefully, we can get everyone heard on camera... perhaps you can help!

It will be an extremely fun night, and however the film turns out, it will definitely be original. Time commitment: The party starts at 8pm on sunday night, and crew call will be around 4:30pm. That will give us a little time to organize and then grab dinner.


interested: call 312-401-8471 or e-mail franimal25@gmail.com


no -- it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

Compensation: Payment: good times, some drinks, and lots of cool new friends. "

The problem with pay per download sites is there's no way for the individual content owners to accurately verify the number of downloads so they can get paid. The site provider could collect money and just tell you that noone has used your footage unless you happen to see it being used. The only way to ensure that you get paid for what is used is to watermark your content and only provide the clean copy directly to the recipient and keep accurate records so if they resell it to others you'll know who has paid and who hasn't. Good luck with that.

Hello James:

I am the owner of MotionZoneHd.com
please e-mail me at info@motionzonehd.com
and I would be happy to provide e-mails of
shooters that are making money with the
clips they have submitted to the site.....
I won't kid anyone, representing royalty-free
on-line stock footage is a tough business.
I can guarantee you that we pay the
highest commissions and we pay them
faster than any other stock footage company.

Sincerely,

Do they have a medical care section on craig's list? Maybe we could all post for doctor's? The ad could go something like this... Videographer/Editor needs doctor to perform open heart surgery. Sorry no pay but this will look great on your resume. Please respond to "Under-paid" videographer/editor who can't afford health insurance thanks to people not paying us to do a job like everyone else. Kind of reminds you of Homer Simpson always getting "Dr. Nick Riveria" to do his surgeries instead of Dr. Hibbard. Remember the episode where Homer is lying in bed and the PA pages Dr. Nick Riveria to the coroner and he says "man I'm getting sick of that guy." Kind of what's craig''s list is for us.

Here's one. . .

Not only a no-pay, but you get to spend a couple grand (I'm guessing. . .I don't know how film stuff is priced exactly)

"Film DP w/Gear AATON or H16 etc for Portfolio 30 sec spot NON PAYING!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply to: gigs-219970539@craigslist.org
Date: 2006-10-13, 9:03AM EDT


THIS IS A NON PAYING GIG

30 Sec Spec Spot.
Outdoors, very simple, I just want a film look.
We will split the cost of film & processing.
Humorous spec spot for McDonalds.
If you don't have any humor on your reel, this is a good opportunity.

Please send links to FILM reels. FILM is not spelled "VIDEO"
If you don't have a FILM reel, and don't own your own 16mm camera,
you are not qualified to apply.

Please don't email me telling me you have a DVX or XL2 that has
a "film look". I want FILM for this spot.

Much thanks for your time, and I look forward to hearing from you...


this is in or around NYC

no -- it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

Compensation: Warm fuzzy feeling"

Wow. If I had seen that, I would have wrote the guy just to say "&$%^ off". I mean not only is he arrogant enough to think his (in my opinion really stupid sounding) spec idea is worth someone shooting on 16mm at their own cost, but he makes it a point to state that someone, who acting out of unbelievable charity, would offer him free DVX or XL2 use...is beneath him.

I really should start asking for someone to paint my house for free, bring your own paint. I mean, why would you become a painter if you didn't like painting? Besides you have to break into the biz somehow right? Oh, and none of that cheap paint, Sherwin-Williams only.

There's been a heated debate the past few days on CraigsList Miami regarding the "lo/no" pay video jobs. This is one person's reply I found this morning:

-------------------------------------------------------

Reply to: job-229564448@craigslist.org
Date: 2006-11-03, 9:27AM EST


First, I would like to say that I am NOT the one who has been running ads on craigslist, but I am a producer of small films who often refers to the list for help.

I have been a professional cameraman/editor for 32 years. I am in the INTERNATIONAL CINEMATOGRAPHERS GUILD and the NATIONAL PRESS PHOTOGRAPHERS ASSOCIATION.

In short, I fully support those producers who are willing to give aspiring filmmakers a shot at working on their projects ("for free"). Where else can a filmmaker get EXPERIENCE...real experience...and screen credit? Just because someone graduated from film school doesn't mean that they have experience. In fact, the producer is taking a great risk that the photographer shoots blue, shaky video without audio...

The fact is, everyone has to start SOMEWHERE, and these free "no/lo" positions are REQUIRED before you can go on to bigger and better things.

I currently work for PBS, and can tell you that ww use DOZENS of no-pay students on our field shoots. The list is long, and we are swamped, and I mean SWAMPED with applications for these no-pay positions.

Even today, after all these years and years and years of experience, I STILL WORK FOR FREE on a couple of projects a year, just to "help out", or do sharpen my skills lighting a "green screen", or operating a "jib", or whatever. It's a win/win situation. I enjoy it/they get the job done.

Putting the pressure on producers to pay for their help doesn't mean that that WILL pay...it means that they will do the project WITHOUT any help. Nearly all of the films done in Florida are done "on spec"...meaning nearly all of them will never see the light of day. So there are NO BUDGETS.

Have you ever wanted to go on a film shoot "just to watch"? Have you ever said "give me something to do, I'd like to help"? SO HAVE DOZENS OF OTHER PEOPLE. If you haven't, maybe you should.

I can tell you from 30 years of experience, if you don't have the experience, people are not going to hire you. And where do you find that experience?... in those crazy little ads in Craigslist.

If you don't want to participate..don't. But don't ruin it for the hundreds of people who do. Please leave Craigs list alone.

There's been a heated debate the past few days on CraigsList Miami regarding the "lo/no" pay video jobs. This is one person's reply I found this morning:

-------------------------------------------------------

Reply to: job-229564448@craigslist.org
Date: 2006-11-03, 9:27AM EST


First, I would like to say that I am NOT the one who has been running ads on craigslist, but I am a producer of small films who often refers to the list for help.

I have been a professional cameraman/editor for 32 years. I am in the INTERNATIONAL CINEMATOGRAPHERS GUILD and the NATIONAL PRESS PHOTOGRAPHERS ASSOCIATION.

In short, I fully support those producers who are willing to give aspiring filmmakers a shot at working on their projects ("for free"). Where else can a filmmaker get EXPERIENCE...real experience...and screen credit? Just because someone graduated from film school doesn't mean that they have experience. In fact, the producer is taking a great risk that the photographer shoots blue, shaky video without audio...

The fact is, everyone has to start SOMEWHERE, and these free "no/lo" positions are REQUIRED before you can go on to bigger and better things.

I currently work for PBS, and can tell you that ww use DOZENS of no-pay students on our field shoots. The list is long, and we are swamped, and I mean SWAMPED with applications for these no-pay positions.

Even today, after all these years and years and years of experience, I STILL WORK FOR FREE on a couple of projects a year, just to "help out", or do sharpen my skills lighting a "green screen", or operating a "jib", or whatever. It's a win/win situation. I enjoy it/they get the job done.

Putting the pressure on producers to pay for their help doesn't mean that that WILL pay...it means that they will do the project WITHOUT any help. Nearly all of the films done in Florida are done "on spec"...meaning nearly all of them will never see the light of day. So there are NO BUDGETS.

Have you ever wanted to go on a film shoot "just to watch"? Have you ever said "give me something to do, I'd like to help"? SO HAVE DOZENS OF OTHER PEOPLE. If you haven't, maybe you should.

I can tell you from 30 years of experience, if you don't have the experience, people are not going to hire you. And where do you find that experience?... in those crazy little ads in Craigslist.

If you don't want to participate..don't. But don't ruin it for the hundreds of people who do. Please leave Craigs list alone.

While that person has a valid point, there is a huge difference between simple "work for experience" that alot of the craiglist posts request. Most of them ask for:

1) Equipment
2) People with experience
3) People with reels
4) Film experience

Or alternatively they:

1) Make insane promises like guarentees that it will have placement on television, or distribution (If you have guarentees like that, then you can afford to pay someone who can guarentee good product.)
2) Request free work, but indicate that they are spending an enormous amount on everything else (This will be a 35mm project, with names attached -- oh but we can't afford to pay you).



Its certainly reasonable to ask for an inexperienced cinematographer to work on your equipment for reel & credit, but requests like many on craiglist that meet the above criteria are outright rediculous and insulting. And that has been pretty much the theme of all these posts on this forum. No one on this thread has posted any "We are a small production company putting together a low budget dv movie, and we need help" sort of posts. Though its sad that the state of affairs in the media world is such that people have to work for free, at the very least those types of posts are reasonable requests.

There's an an international cinematographer's guild? I've heard of ASC, BSC, France's. . .SC, but not this international thing.

And I don't agree with that dude's post. You can get work on real projects, legit non-craigslist stuff if you're gonna go the no-pay route. As a PA, or intern, I mean. And a lot of people claim the first PA jobs they got WERE paid.

I'm starting to think that experience on "Craigslist-type" stuff may not be so valuable after all. Let's say you volunteer your time and camera on someone's short/feature. How do you know that any of your are doing anything right? What I mean is, there's a way things are done on professional productions, and it's not necessarily the way people on no-budget stuff do things. I'm talking about set protocols, etc. So you have all this experience, then you start trying to apply for real gigs, and find out everything you know is wrong. What good is that? I know this applies to me personally.

I'm sure there are dozens of things I do "wrong" on all my personal projects. I would never ask someone to volunteer on one of my things and call it "experience", 'cause it really isn't. Unless the paid gig that guy/gal applies for next is someone shooting miniDV with a homemade dolly and little/no crew.

Perhaps it's different if the producer/director/someone has real world experience, and is disciplined enough to maintain that pro methodology when doing no-budget stuff, and teach people to do the same. That's probably not the case with most of these ads.

I don't know. What do I know? Those are my thoughts.

There's an an international cinematographer's guild? I've heard of ASC, BSC, France's. . .SC, but not this international thing.

And I don't agree with that dude's post. You can get work on real projects, legit non-craigslist stuff if you're gonna go the no-pay route. As a PA, or intern, I mean. And a lot of people claim the first PA jobs they got WERE paid.

I'm starting to think that experience on "Craigslist-type" stuff may not be so valuable after all. Let's say you volunteer your time and camera on someone's short/feature. How do you know that any of your are doing anything right? What I mean is, there's a way things are done on professional productions, and it's not necessarily the way people on no-budget stuff do things. I'm talking about set protocols, etc. So you have all this experience, then you start trying to apply for real gigs, and find out everything you know is wrong. What good is that? I know this applies to me personally.

I'm sure there are dozens of things I do "wrong" on all my personal projects. I would never ask someone to volunteer on one of my things and call it "experience", 'cause it really isn't. Unless the paid gig that guy/gal applies for next is someone shooting miniDV with a homemade dolly and little/no crew.

Perhaps it's different if the producer/director/someone has real world experience, and is disciplined enough to maintain that pro methodology when doing no-budget stuff, and teach people to do the same. That's probably not the case with most of these ads.

I don't know. What do I know? Those are my thoughts.

You have a point there, but I have to say there is an element of experience that can be learned from even working with inexperienced people. I find I've learned something on every project I've worked on, and that learning typically comes from encountering unique problems and working as a team to solve them. The next time the problem comes up, its not nearly as much of a big deal. It's great experience for people who want to produce their own material independently. But if you are attempting to get experience needed to work for major producers, or television then I agree that the no pay work is probably pretty useless. It's better to beg your ass off for a PA position on a big budget production.

Secondly, I do alot of "no pay" work for the advantage of connections, work trades, or borrowing of equipment. If my contribution is significant, I may instead ask for some equity share in the project if I believe in it enough, but the producers can't offer me any services in return.

So I guess really, I think its best to never work for free, but that doesn't mean you have to get paid in cold hard cash every time.

Not directly related to videography/cinematography, but I saw a posting the other day on a film-related message board looking for a screenwriter to write up an idea this person had for no/deferred pay. Not necessarily anything wrong with asking, of course, but then they went on, requiring:

The screenwriter have produced credits distributed by one of the major studios.
The screenwriter be currently repped by CAA.

Maybe it's just me, but I would imagine that most screenwriters with major studio credits and an agent at CAA aren't out looking for no pay jobs on message boards.

But I'll admit that I might be wrong on that.

While that person has a valid point, there is a huge difference between simple "work for experience" that alot of the craiglist posts request. Most of them ask for:

1) Equipment
2) People with experience
3) People with reels
4) Film experience

Or alternatively they:

1) Make insane promises like guarentees that it will have placement on television, or distribution (If you have guarentees like that, then you can afford to pay someone who can guarentee good product.)
2) Request free work, but indicate that they are spending an enormous amount on everything else (This will be a 35mm project, with names attached -- oh but we can't afford to pay you).

Matt, I think you hit the nail on the head!

This one looks kind of iffy. For the amount of time it takes to schedule, shoot, and edit a 3 minute video, $50-$200 seems pretty chintzy! Especially considering you have to provide your own 3CCD camera, 2 (TWO!) wireless lavs and your own music. Besides all that, how would you do this right without two people?







Testdrivevideos is looking for a special breed of videographer to make our Street Team.

Street Team members will visit their local car dealers to take a test drive, videotape their experience and edit it down to a 3 minute clip including background music for posting to our website.

You will be provided:

Embroidered team shirt
Team business cards
How to succeed as a Test Drive Video Street Team Member
Agreements
Video forms
You will earn from $50 to $200 per video and should spend an average of 2 hours working on each video.

This can be full or part time work. You can be a student or professional with several years of video and film experience. You will need the following as a minimum:

A valid drivers license
Proof of insurance
A 3-chip (CCD) digital camera
Two UHF wireless lav systems
A digital non-linear editing platform capable of adding titles.
Capability to encode to Windows Media Player, Quicktime, and Flash (Final Cut Pro, Avid, Premiere or equivalent; iMovie is not good enough).
Music library or score software that is license free and must be cleared to play online.

To be selected, please answer the following questions and send me your reply and demo reel by Monday, 11/13/06:

Why should we hire you?
Do you work better with others or on your own and why?
Would you rather be backstage or onstage and why?
Are you a car or small truck enthusiast and why?
Would you like to appear in your video’s and why?

How can one do this in two hours?
Go to dealership. Test drive while talking to sales person (both you and they are mic'd my guess). Who drives while who shoots?
Go back home.
Input video.
Edit down to 3 minutes and title.
Compress to various formats.

Obviously they're not asking for great works of art or car commercials but this looks more like 4-6 hours for quick and dirty. Certainly might be a viable newbe job at $200 a day but absolutely pointless for less than that.

Are they thinking one can do 3 or 4 of these a day and that's why they say 2 hours?

Are they thinking one test drives 3 or 4 cars at one dealer?

Are people going to watch test drives and will that sell cars?


This one looks kind of iffy. For the amount of time it takes to schedule, shoot, and edit a 3 minute video, $50-$200 seems pretty chintzy! Especially considering you have to provide your own 3CCD camera, 2 (TWO!) wireless lavs and your own music. Besides all that, how would you do this right without two people?







Testdrivevideos is looking for a special breed of videographer to make our Street Team.

Street Team members will visit their local car dealers to take a test drive, videotape their experience and edit it down to a 3 minute clip including background music for posting to our website.

You will be provided:

Embroidered team shirt
Team business cards
How to succeed as a Test Drive Video Street Team Member
Agreements
Video forms
You will earn from $50 to $200 per video and should spend an average of 2 hours working on each video.

This can be full or part time work. You can be a student or professional with several years of video and film experience. You will need the following as a minimum:

A valid drivers license
Proof of insurance
A 3-chip (CCD) digital camera
Two UHF wireless lav systems
A digital non-linear editing platform capable of adding titles.
Capability to encode to Windows Media Player, Quicktime, and Flash (Final Cut Pro, Avid, Premiere or equivalent; iMovie is not good enough).
Music library or score software that is license free and must be cleared to play online.

To be selected, please answer the following questions and send me your reply and demo reel by Monday, 11/13/06:

Why should we hire you?
Do you work better with others or on your own and why?
Would you rather be backstage or onstage and why?
Are you a car or small truck enthusiast and why?
Would you like to appear in your video’s and why?

deleted, I did not thoroughly read through the thread.

CineAlta Camera Operator Wanted...$150/day

Hello,

We are looking for a cameraman with access to a Sony HDW-F900 to shoot some interviews in the D.C. area. Shooting will begin December 16th and run to mid-January. A minimum of 3 days a week (approx. 6 hours/day) will be required of you.

This is a political documentary that features high-ranking, national political figures. This job will also require a lighting kit (at least 3 lights for interview-style) and a broadcast-quality lavaliere microphone. Job may lead to future gigs. Food will NOT be provided at the locations. We will pay for tape stock.

Please send demo reel link and contact info to above address. P.S. No, that's not a typo. One-hundred fifty dollars and zero cents per day is a fair rate.

* Location: D.C.
* It's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
* Compensation: $150.00 a day


Wow...I'm speechless. I know the F900 is now the "old" model or whatnot but that's like renting a Panavision film camera for the cost of a DVX100!

Wow, what balls!

Not only offering to pay crap, but no food, and insisting they're not paying crap.

That's awesome. $150/day for an F900, a 3 point light kit and operator.

But hey, I guess $150 isn't too bad for DC. I mean, with the low cost of living there and all.

I love the way they insist that $150 is a fair rate!!

Whats the email of this guy? We should be told!

I wonder if they realize that they will be spending more a day on tape stock (at least 6 hour shoots will be 4x40min pieces) then they expect to spend on the operator, camera. lav, and lighting kit

I have access to a F900 package that includes monitor, lav mics, a shotgun mic, and fishpole. I will even work for $150 a day if it looks good on my reel and I am treated decently. The only question I have is if the rental house will trust me to go off-island with the $2500/day camera package. I'm surprised that this employer won't pay for food but will be paying $2500 per day for the camera and mics. Oh, I'll bring my light kit for another $150/day...

Everybody has ACCESS to an F900, you just need to supply the minimum number of presidential portraits.

I have access to a F900 package that includes monitor, lav mics, a shotgun mic, and fishpole. I will even work for $150 a day if it looks good on my reel and I am treated decently. The only question I have is if the rental house will trust me to go off-island with the $2500/day camera package. I'm surprised that this employer won't pay for food but will be paying $2500 per day for the camera and mics. Oh, I'll bring my light kit for another $150/day...

Everybody has ACCESS to an F900, you just need to supply the minimum number of presidential portraits.
Benjamin was never president (haha).

For someone who has either an FX1, Z1u, XH-G1, or an FX7 or any other similar camera and never shoot before than $150.00 wouldn’t be so bad just as long as the Producer doesn’t complain about the quality, although they might be lucky to get a good High School student. As for having a Sony HDW-F900 with lights and XLR lavaliere microphones, it looks like the Producer is looking for someone who is either high or drunk. All I can say to the Producer is good luck.

awesomely retarded:

"Make Me A Star

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply to: job-239039543@craigslist.org
Date: 2006-11-23, 5:39PM CST


I'm looking for a camera man, web- designer, photographer, promoter, and a producer. I'm an aspiring actor, rapper, model, Celebrity and star. I'm not sure which one I wanna settle down in but I need to make something happen. If this sounds interesting hit me up asap. So we can discuss further details.


Location: Houston Area

Compensation: Experience

Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.

Please, no phone calls about this job!

Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.

"

<snip>
Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
<snip>


I'm sure the recruiters are busting down the door there buddy...

Another:

""Daily Show" ....Staff needed...
Reply to: gigs-241084569@craigslist.org
Date: 2006-11-28, 11:12AM CST


I have a bi-weekly 1 hour show on Cable Access. Currently, it is dry. Want to take it to the next level by adding entertainment value. Looking for a person who has that experience.

* Location: Houston
* It's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests"

Another:

""Daily Show" ....Staff needed...
Reply to: gigs-241084569@craigslist.org
Date: 2006-11-28, 11:12AM CST


I have a bi-weekly 1 hour show on Cable Access. Currently, it is dry. Want to take it to the next level by adding entertainment value. Looking for a person who has that experience.

* Location: Houston
* It's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests"
Man, those daily 1hr bi-weekly schedules are killing me! Never again!

I'm seeing Way to much money talk... on this thread... money money money. I'm a mid aged guy who threw away a succesfull carreer so I could change my address and make movies. I've spent and am spending lots of MY OWN money as a producer to create stuff I hope people will enjoy. Any profits that are taken in after production costs are re-filled I am very happy to pay back the crew and actors (It states this in my contracts also). However, I will ask Veteran crew members to work for free. Not because I want to Use and abuse them... it's because 1.) I am spending money for hotels, transportation, food, tapes, insurance... blah blah blah... and the movie would never be able to be made with Veteran pay scales and 2.) I want the best possible images. And as I said before... if the project makes a profit, everyone gets paid. There are two different players in this game... as most... those out there for the money... and those out there because they love it. I am always looking for those veterans who love it... they always make the best stuff... and it's just a natural process that the best stuff... makes money. Of course there are fellows out there who will try to use you... but, some of us really are just trying hard to produce somthing good!

<snip>Of course there are fellows out there who will try to use you... but, some of us really are just trying hard to produce somthing good!

Carl, I hear ya, and I bet a lot of people on this board would work for a deferred (ie. probably never) pay rate. I'd certainly lend a hand on a quality project if my schedule permitted. But the want ads that we poke fun at here are just almost always absolutely ridiculously bad. Its easy to see that most of these "job" offers are nothing more than talentless individuals with no equipment or money that have some poorly conceived video project that they want everyone else to make for them.

I mean, seriously, $150/day for a camera operater with an F900? That's akin to "Needed: stunt driver with late model Porsche 911 Turbo. $150 a day". In that F900 ad, the guy didn't even try to convince the readers that there was a backend, or that it was a quality project that will better the world around us. He made it sound like you're lucky to get the project for that rate with your 100K camcorder (plus your light kit and broadcast mic). Oh, and he doesn't provide food.

Or this bi-weekly show thing. Looking at his ad I can only conclude that he somehow findangled his way into getting an hour of broadcast without actually having the ability to make an interesting show. So now he wants someone with talent to come make his show worth watching.

Like I said, I'm sure there are plenty of talented people on this board that would enjoy collaborating on a high quality project with like minded individuals, even if no profit were in sight. But these ads just don't fall into that category..

Just my 2 cents...

Here is a real winner -

Reply to: trivialbrian@gmail.com
Date: 2006-11-29, 9:41PM CST


We are looking for a Camera op with their own equipment for a reality show being shot throught the month of dec to the new year.

Perfect for new filmmakers or seasoned.

Send letter of interest, or resume to

TrivialBrian@gmail.com

Thankyou

Brian D
Trivial Productions


Location: Dallas Area

Compensation: No pay...Great experience

Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.

Please, no phone calls about this job!

Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.

Found an interesting ad for an editor today, but upon reading the whole ad I notice the education/exp requirement of:

Education and Work Experience
Bachelor's degree in television or film production, and or fine arts graphic design. Typically requires four to five years of graphic design and video editing experience with one to three years in electronic media design. Operates under general supervision.


The pay for the job is only $35k/year. To me, that is rediculous...that much education and experience for what amounts to about $15/hr.

Am I way off base here? Am I expecting too much (I am coming from an IT/programming background)?

Lisa, you might be. I have a Master's Degree with over 10yrs of
production experience, and I work for a major university, and I make
just under that amount. it really sucks balls. If anyone wants to make
it in this business, they have to learn web dev.