Bmpcc second attempt

[Tim Lewis]

Whilst I don't have anywhere near the knowledge of others on the forum, I used the free version of Resolve 10 on some footage from my Canon HF200's. I can get a fairly flat image profile out of them with the custom settings. I did find that I was able to improve the footage substantially with basic colour correction of shadows, mid-tones and highlights, but it is a lot of extra work. My current computer while overseas is not powerful enough to run Resolve so I have had to abandon my attempts for the moment.

All that to say, I would love to have a BMPCC with which to experiment, but camera, batteries, lens, new computer, new cards etc. Take it well beyond the realms of possibility for the moment. I will just have to enjoy the samples I see and the discussions around them.

[Chris Barcellos]

Noa:

Cineform's raw codec is editable in any NLE and corrector. To give footage an initial look, you can actualy add that in GoPro Studio, without destruction of the footage.

[Larry Secrest]

Noa,

Is shooting prores really not an option? Isnt' prores amazing with its color depth compared to anything that a 8bit mirrorless cam can offer?

[Noa Put]

You tell me, I have seen enough from the pocket cam shot in prores that looks worse then what some others achieve with a 8bit 4:2:0 camera, not saying that you can't get great looking footage out of this camera when you shoot pro-res, I only have not figured out how to.

[Larry Secrest]

That was shot prores:

The One - First Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera Shortfilm on Vimeo

More info here: https://frankglencairn.wordpress.com...d-much-coffee/

[Noa Put]

And? It still doesn't say how to get this kind of color out of the camera, that's the point I"m trying to make, there are many flat profiles out there, slog2, 3 v-log etc but it takes skill to know how to colorcorrect. In raw I just click a button and "bang" the light is on and I only need to tweak further to taste. With prores it still is dark after you switch the light on and you need to be an electrician to make it work. :)

I know you are trying to proof that the pocket cam has amazing color depth and whatnot and I"m not saying it's not possible but show me some of your own work (you do have a black magic camera, right?) that will blow my socks off. If it is that easy, I"d like to see how. Try to convince me why this is a better camera then any 8bit cam out there.

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

Noa:

Cineform's raw codec is editable in any NLE and corrector. To give footage an initial look, you can actualy add that in GoPro Studio, without destruction of the footage.

Chris, I do have raw4pro but the problem is that goprostudio doesn't import the converted cineform raw footage, it sees it in the explorer but refuses to import it. Do you know of any online tutorials that show this process in goprostudio to color correct cineform raw?

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by Larry Secrest

That was shot prores:

This morning I went out to the forest for some quick test shots with my bmpcc and gh4, I tried prores and raw on the pocket cam and shot v-log on the gh4. All 3 codecs are very flat and difficult to correct in post and with my limited experience in colorcorrecting not an easy task.

Here are 2 shots with each shot containing prores, raw and vlog and then a combination of v-log and raw in the same shot. Just look at how awful prores looks if someone with little experience tries to colorcorrect it but look how v-log looks and that looks much flatter then prores to start with. both camera's had a 12mm lens attached to it, different in frame is because the pocketcam crops more. From what I remember the gh4 footage comes closest to how it actually looked like. I"m actually a bit surprised about this test, the footage I shot at sea gave me a "wow" feeling while now I"m not sure what to think of it eventhough I applied the same workflow.

password: test

Private Video on Vimeo

[Larry Secrest]

Noa,
As you might remember I've been using a BMPCC from a neighbor. The footage you saw once that I color correct without too much experience was not up to your taste.
I play mainly with a canon XF-305.

Ok, I get your point and here's my conclusion.
The BMC are not for fun or toys, they are meant for people who will talk the time to master color grading, preferably with Resolve. I haven't had the time but I'm planning to. My process will be the opposite than what most people do. Since I do need to build another computer, the current one is from 2009, I'll build something to be able to run Resolve nicely. I'll practice grading raw and prores footage and only if I think I can become decent at it will I buy a BMC.
Now about raw. I really see the beauty of it. I also see why we see so many pieces on YouTube or Vimeo that look amazing. Those pieces are 2-5 minutes, no script, no narrative etc,,,,just graded raw footage.
I don't see me having a problem doing that. I simply don't see myself to shoot a 90 minutes independent film in raw. Suddenly everything will become overwhelming. THis is why I want prores to work. Raw seems fine to me as long as there's no pressure and it's just play. Shooting a ration of 3 to 1 in raw means 15 Terabytes of storage, and a grading process that could be tedious.
Let me build that machine and practice and I'll tell you what I can or can't do, but you're right. Until then, I should shut up!

[Larry Secrest]

Ok, from your footage, no, no need to worry about prores over the GH4. To me it's not worth bothering. BUT, this is because you don't know yet how to grade prores.
The GH4 does provide a good enough level of quality for me. The GH4 cost around what a BMCC would cost me. So my thinking is that to go with equal price I'd stick with the better codec, ProRes...but yes, I do need to learn how to color correct it.
As yu remember me saying this, the most important thing for me is content and somebody who knows how to use the GH4 and lights will be beyond what I need as far as quality of the picture to be able to watch it.
If the BMCC would cost 5000 bucks I wouldn't even consider it. But since it's less than 2000 and more or less on par as far as running it than a GH4 or a NX1 I must consider it.

[Noa Put]

I think the reason why the bmpcc footage looks bad is because the camera has issues resolving all the fine detail with those trees and leaves and it just looks like a blurry mess to me. I have tried some other corrections on the raw footage, because that I am able to bring that to life much easier then prores and eventhough you can see there is so much color information those particular forest shots still look like crap, no matter what I try. This has little to do with me being inexperienced with color correcting.

This might explain why the sea footage looks so good in comparison, those all where wide shots with a lot less very fine detail.

I"m still not giving up on that camera :) It's my footage I took at sea that convinced me to experiment further with it.

[Craig Seeman]

Properly graded ProRes should look no different than cDNG for Broadcast or even Cinema use. Certainly cDNG is a bit more flexible but you can push ProRes (especially ProResHQ and up) very far in a grade without any problems. Perhaps one needs to travel over to some Blackmagic specific sites to see that. Heck, for web use ProRes LT is very good. You might see some resolution difference between LT and HQ and compared to cDNG.

[Noa Put]

If someone can show how you can bring prores from a pocket cam to life I"m all eyes. :)

[Craig Seeman]

In this video Mattias Burling explains basically that you can push Raw more to push exposure
... but you don't always need to do that.

BMPCC - Part 6/9 - Prores or Raw? - YouTube

[Craig Seeman]

In this video by DL Watson, again the difference is most obvious when pushed but how often do you need to push?
He concludes that for every day use ProRes is fine.

Pro-Res Flavors vs RAW - BMPCC on Vimeo