7D have 24p but why not 5DM2
 

i really hate this.
7d release with full HD 24p. but why don't they release 24p on 5d Mark 2.
we spend a lot of money on 5d, witch is more expansive then 7D. and now 7D get all the function that all way request for?
now i don't know what they doing!!
come on canon. support your customer.

guys what is your opinion?

My opinion -- which I don't know to be a fact and is therefore just a guess -- is that adding those
frame rates probably requires a *hardware* change and not just a downloadable firmware update.

your speculation could possibly be supported by the fact that the 7D has 2 processors in it. There has got to be a reason for this.

I hate to say this but do they just want the money from us..?
i know new stuff get new thing. but we span huge amount of money to get 5D, and now they just don't care about upgrade there firmware.
regarding to the censor chip. I'm sure they can do just in firmware update. please look at RED they use CMOS censer the same. and they can do hight speed frame rate.
i don't mind that they downscale from 1080p to 720p to get 50fps - 60fps.
or might be, we just have to wait a bit longer cuz they wanted to get low end consumer.
then they will release the new firmware that boom the 5D industry.

The extra processor combined with the smaller sensor may have something to do with the multiple frame rates...

Yes. They're a business and by definition they want your money, and as much of it as they can get.

We'll probably know soon if the 5D gets some type of update but I've got a feeling that you're going to have to buy some other unreleased Canon product if you want full frame at 24p. It's coming eventually and they are going to want you to pay for it. Can you blame them? They're basically the only game in town at this point until someone else steps up to the plate in quality and price.

I wouldn't rule out a firmware upgrade, but you have to remember Canon is a business. They have a long history of bringing out new models with better features than the last one and asking you to buy it. Compared to people who bought the 1DsmkIII weeks before the 5DmkII was launched we have relatively little to moan about.

We put money down for the 5DmkII when we knew its original spec, Canon never claimed they would keep improving it.

On the plus side for those who haven't bought a 5DmkII yet this camera seems like a bit of a bargain.

Dan

It's so cheap that it might make sense for many to own both a 5D Mk II and a 7D. The economy of it makes a lot of sense, really... You can share EF lenses, accessories, and media cards.

There should still be a very strong market for the 5D Mk II, so selling it and buying a 7D would result in a net savings, too. So, I don't know how much we really have to complain about here....

That's the important point, Dan. People should buy products for what they do, not for what they could eventually do.

The 5D MkII was a very big step forward that we all wanted to be part with. I really hope Canon could at least bring 25p to the 5D though. In the meantime I will reserve a 7D... ;-DD

Thank Dan,
i know that Canon is a business. and yeah, i thing we all happy with 5D cuz we been achieve a lot creative work that we can't do on DV or HDV cam. but we here to make voices, and ask them to change there keys business, not all but just the customer support.

i know if they still being the same, people will switch to Red once scarlet release. i am too.

i would pay for the firmware update instant of buy new camera, pay less on with you already have.


cheers

Maybe, maybe not. I think Canon is doing a smart thing here by understanding the market who is looking at buying a Scarlet. Most of the low end Scarlet market doesn't have a whole lot of cash to throw around and the Canon offerings will be a good bit less expensive than what Red will bring to the table. Sure there are some trade offs by choosing Canon especially if Red can deliver the type of image quality most seem to think they can, but a few thousand dollars can hold a lot of sway for people in this segment of the market.

Canon might have positioned themselves as the "good enough for the money that I won't buy a Scarlet" brand.

If you're not happy about Canon's customer support, you'll simply love Red's.

just found video sample for 7D
Canon: EOS 7D Sample Images & Movies

Ouch. I bought mine two weeks ago.
I figured it would be obsolete within six months and I would sell it to a still photographer and take the hit. Hopefully after having put it to work.
That seemed a pessimistic scenario but prudent.
Now it looks like it may have become obsolete within two weeks. That's quite some going Canon.
Meanwhile all the extra stuff that I need to buy to make the camera work gets put on hold.
For instance I came on line this morning to finally make a decision about a buying a new lens (yes, Canon, it might have been one of yours).
The last thing I expected to read about was a newer, cheaper Canon camera that does 25p.
I can't believe that if Canon can incorporate 25p into the 7D that they could not have included it with the 5D.
When the time comes to replace my XH A1 is Canon going to make that obsolete within a few months. I wonder.
Perhaps I should wait to see what Sony or Nikon come up with.

Nothing to worry about mate. Just read Tramm's thread on the 7D sub-forum. 7D has no audio monitoring and requires a firmware like Magic Lantern to turn off the AGC. Who knows, Canon may yet surprise us all with an updated firmware with 24P for the 5D2. I am still keeping my hopes up.

The 5D Mk. II will continue to hold its value very well. There is -- and still will be for quite some time -- a very good used market for this camera. Remember there are plenty of potential buyers who have no intention of getting it for its movie mode and have no interest in its video capabilities at all.

This is what I have heard too. That the software is locked to the Canon clock.

I don't understand this mindset.. We have make voices and ask them to their key businesses? You buy the product offered by a company and you use whatever you bought. If you don't like it anymore you sell it to someone else.

If you buy a car and later you want it to have more horsepower, do you pressure the car company to fine tune your engine for you?

Doubtful.. makes no sense to require more processing power to push thru less frames.

The dual digic processor almost certainly has to do with the fact that this camera shoots 8fps @ a resolution of 18mps RAW and the improved AF system that captures more AF data would also require additional processing power.

I bet both digic processors are not even used for the video.

who knows at this point. from the videos I've seen it looks like jello is much less of a problem so maybe one of those processors is put to use there. I do wonder if there are two processors churning away in there are there going to be heat problems and battery life issues? time will tell.

The difference is that automobile manufacturers provide service manuals so that you can tune your own car.

I'm certainly hoping for a firmware update from Canon for the 5D Mark II. I don't believe there to be a hardware reason that slower frame rates would cause any problems: the T1i does 20 fps with a single DIGIC4. The higher frame rates, like 720p60 could certainly use the dual DIGIC chips, especially to reduce vertical aliasing during the downsample or to reduce the effective scanrate of the electronic shutter.

Well as an example, the 1D Mark 3 has dual digic 3 processors. Required to assist with keeping up with 10MP @ 10FPS and the AF system. Two processors used to read from the 8 data channels coming from the sensor, such as this 7D has..

Ethan have a look at the sample here:
Canon EOS 7D Hands-on Preview: 14. Samples: Digital Photography Review

If played frame by frame the 7D seems to have just as much Jello as the 5DMK2.

I'am trying to spot the aliasing artifacts in all the samples. I see the data rate is now 48mbit/s.

this is completely difference from the auto market.
just a simple question for you.
did you ever upgrade you computer OS? did you ever upgrade your bug fix?
and yeah i know you been upgrade your 5d.
if you been upgrade your 5d firmware, dose it mean they replace the engine for you?
it just the simple firmware update. and what i ask for is the new firmware update witch content 25-60fps. and i know this is possible.

and dude!! this is the electronic market. it will need to combine hardware and software. so they have to fix there problem. and i'm not asking them to change the Engine for me (replace the 5d hardware). i just asking them to upgrade or fix the problem. and it can be done in software ( firmware )

and by the way, i think i'm not the only one who asking for this. and i know if canon happen to release the new firmware update, who know it might be you're the fist one to update your 5D.

sorry for my bad english.

Your English is not a problem here.

We don't know for a fact that frame rates can be added to the 5D Mk. II by a simple firmware update. Sure there is a lot of talk about it but we don't know that to be true definitively.

The lack of additional frame rates is not a "problem" in the sense that there is nothing broken which needs to be fixed. The 5D Mk. II works exactly as designed. It does what it was advertised to do, which is to shoot video at 30 frames per second.

Not so fast; see http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/1297686-post2.html

yeah it works exactly as designed, but i just hope and believe that it can be happen.
remember last time update? it was happen once..

If you purchased a red car and later the car manufacture came out with a new silver color that you really liked, do you then pressure the car company to re-paint it for you in silver?

i been mention that auto industry is deference from electronic industry. if you buy RED one or Mac they will come out with the firmware or software update to make that product have more function. and more competition with other.

if you say that auto and electronic industry are the same and you can't ask re-paint car above. witch mean you buy a PC and you never upgrade your OS 311, since 90s. or Mac OS7, till now then.

Easy does it, folks. Thanks in advance,

Component Approach is Good !
 

The component approach Canon is taking is good. A lot of people here seem to be missing that point. This is a camera body to attach your great glass to. The 5D is the same. This is actually exactly what we want to see in the video world. Canon is grudgingly recognizing RED's idea of having multiple capability bodies for video and still. And with RED, the lowest level Scarlets won't do what the 35mm sensor version will do.

In the 7D case, we get added features such as 60p and 24 and 25p. We have a lower cost. These features come at a cost. We lose full frame sensor.

I suspect next step is the 9D with same features in a full sensor camera-- and perhaps with some of the other features we are looking for.. or maybe even a more traditionally designed video camera, alll at a higher price...

i love my 5D, and i don't want to loss the full frame, and my FF glasses.
i been have many great work with it. i know i can get 7D and the cost is affordable. but loss full frame? and a extra camera? is a no.
that why i still want to have 24-60fps. it just a hope.

"These features come at a cost. We lose full frame sensor."

This might sound like a dumb question but what is the benefit of a full size sensor over a smaller one for shooting video considering that it only use part of the sensor anyway?

To my mind the existence of the 7D with it's various frame rates basically puts to rest the argument that they kept the 5D at 30fps as a way to protect their video segment. That leaves me with the feeling that it is in fact a hardware limitation of some sort - maybe it's a clock timing issue, maybe the jello is too bad at lower frame rates on the big sensor, whatever. So I'm actually less inclined to believe we'll see a firmware update with new frame rates for the 5D at all.

Would make a nice second camera with it's x1.6 a fast 2.8 /200mm Zoom and a x2 II Extender.
640mm. A nice benefit with the smaller sensor.

It uses the full frame in the sense that the entire width of the imager is used to generate the image for the still video application. In the case of the the video, not all lines of the image are used, and of course there is cropping to fit 16:9 frame size.

The larger the imager, of coures, the shallower depth of field will be, and that is why we have been desirous of full frame chips.

The problem I'm having with Canon is that they are giving away a supreme set of software settings for the 7D, but the hardware of the 7D is not in par with the 5D Mark II hardware (5D2 hardware is MUCH better). Just because the 7D system is "newer", does not mean the 5DmkII customers should suffer for it!

I mean the 5D2 - in all areas - out performs the 7D. The ONLY thing the 7D has, is MORE SOFTWARE SETTINGS. To be honest, I don't care about the 720p/50/60 modes, I care about the 24/25 mode. And if that's not coming to their top-of-the-line models, who in their right mind would ever purchase the next "5D2" or "1D" if the next "7D" is going to have all that, plus some...

I just know we're getting the 24/25p. That is just good customer support - and what they call in the business "after marketing". We're getting 24/25p. Just wait for it.

If not? FU Canon! My next spare 3600€ wont be yours!

lolz .. good one!!

I seriously doubt it's just a software question. The fact that the 7D has all the frame rates it does indicates they aren't worried about protecting their video division from cannibalization by still cameras - so what other reason would they have for not enabling these frame rates in the first place if it was possible?