Great news!

Yes indeed, we have come a long way. Though, ever since I parted with my dear workhorse, the Canon XL2, I've been missing not only all the different frame-rates but more so its audio capabilities -- so to me (even if I've always been a sucker for 24p) I would now kill for SMPTE and manual audio... or as we say in Norway; much wants more.

-- peer

The long lead time on the firmware update really puzzles me - I don't see any marketing advantage to holding out. Maybe a few people hold out and wait for it, but for those who can't wait it means a lot of 7D sales that might have gone to the 5D instead. But it also seems like they either have it or they don't, I can't believe they'd announce it if it wasn't already working - so why wait so long?

They are probably waiting till the 1DMKIV takes a foothold... or maybe, and just maybe
they are waiting on some competition to show a card or two and then put out firmware
not only for the 5DII but also the other cams too... its a poker game right now and it
looks like canon has a full house. Maybe RED will join in the poker game by then too.

You have to keep several things in mind. It took Canon six months just to enable manual control, and 24p is three times more difficult, so it will take 18 months (they've been working on it since the camera came out.)

Furthermore, you have to be patient with them due to their limited resources. I know it seems easy to compare Canon's glacial progress to the rapid improvements from the Magic Lantern firmware by Tramm Hudson, but it's really not fair at all. Here's why:

Tramm Hudson is not an actual human being. "Magic Lantern" is actually the name of a multi-billion dollar corporation tasked with developing and improving the 5D2 firmware, and "Tramm" is just the alias used by dozens of their top software engineers. This gives you the false impression that it's just a single guy working in his basement somewhere.

Canon, on the other hand, gives you the false impression that they are a billion-dollar corporation with dozens of software engineers, but is in fact just a single guy working from a basement in Tokyo for free, collaborating with a few other individual who donate their time as well. It's no wonder they can't add 24p in a short amount of time.

Canon is handicapped by several things. First, don't have any of the source code to the cameras (Tramm has this all locked up in his proprietary Magic Lantern source code, which Canon doesn't have access to.) That alone is what made it possible for Magic Lantern to have auto bracketing and other features that Canon has been unable to add for years.

Second, Canon doesn't have enough money to even buy a second camera. There was a very real risk that they would brick their only camera during development. Tramm, on the other hand, has hundreds of cameras available at the snap of a finger. Such an unfair advantage gave him plenty of time for developing extras like zebras and focus/DOF readouts, where Canon could not.

Third, Tramm has full documentation on the camera hardware and software, as well as direct access to the engineers who made it. Canon, on the other hand, has to reverse engineer almost everything from scratch, before they can even start to add new features. That's why Canon was not able to implement manual audio control, whereas Tramm was able to add it in a matter of days.

I could go on and on, but I hope it's clear by now just how difficult it is for Canon. We can hope that some day they will be able to compete with Tramm, but that will not happen until they can raise at least $10,000 for software development, or somehow find a way to hire at least one additional software engineer, or even just get access to the source code.

Until then we must be patient and understanding of Canon's many handicaps.

Man! I take these forums too seriously. It took me way too long for this joke to hit me upside the head!

Meanwhile... I'm jazzed 24p is coming to the 5D. In the meantime there are a number of workarounds reported here and elsewhere months ago, and there's the 7D and GH1 as well. 5D just became a definite keeper with this announcement.

Wow, wouldn't it be nice if they also added 60p to the same firmware upgrade for the sport and event shooters. 60p would give the ability to do the smooth slow motion.

This is soooooooooooooo freakin awesome! Thanks canon, you've made my day.

Daniel, that is a potential "post of the century" candidate you have there. Brilliant stuff.

I would just like to correct the record: at no time have I attempted to mislead people by claiming that I am programming in a basement. None of my locations around the world have basements.

Other than that one exception, your post is 100% accurate.

Daniel, hilarious... thanks for the laughs. I second the motion for "post of the century" candidature.

LOL...what about spare bedroom???

In fact the firmware is finished and ready to download. Or is there anyone who believe it is different from the one in 7D?

The reason why we have to wait a few more months is that the legal department in Tramm Towers basement and Canon's alcoholic attorney wont be able to come to an agreement on the royalties and rights in shorter time.

I heard TRAMM/Hudson Corp. is actually a branch of Skynet.

Hey Guys damn this is good news. I always trusted my instinct that something will come good to the 5D. Thank you for the laught too. Do you think Edge finder is too hard to add to the firmware along with the super good new 24p and 25p capable of the 5D. Or maybe we have to wait for Tram to making that happen????

Nah, the Tyrell Corporation.

Oh, that's a relief -- I kind of had my suspicions that he was working for Keyser Söze.

-- peer

Daniel made me giggle. lolz.

To bring back some seriousness :) Is anybody else concerned that the frame rate update could mess up Magic Lantern? I mean the conversion obviously will be done in software and will need extra processing power. Just a thought.

I must say I'm generally concerned when I see that ML gets bigger and bigger with each release. Are the processors in the 5D really that underemployed? All I really need from ML is the AGC deactivation and maybe the histogram. Therefore a "light" version with autoboot added that safely works on a future 24/25/30 fps 5D would be sufficient for me.

I second that.

I've raised this as a concern before myself. It could be possible that Canon would include in the update, code that would preclude the use of ML in its current form. Trammel's work with the 7D is proving that it is tough to get into it with ML, and one wonders whether an update from Canon of the 5D would also throw up additional roadblocks to the 5D.

I've been thinking about this myself, i.e., that Canon might go the same route as Apple with its iPhone updates -- wipe out & make it very hard for unauthorized software.

-- peer

30p ->29.97
 

Fresh from my canon rep: the firmware update will most likely be in January, and it will permanently convert the 30p to broadcast 29.97

-andy batt
vimeo.com/andybattstudio
andybatt.com

First of all, Apple has never succeeded on that front. Within short order, jailbreaking and unlocking have always come back. So, good luck with that one Canon. But more seriously, just make sure you keep a copy of the older firmware I guess. Although then you might have to choose between framerates and ML, oh well...

Hey all - as far as I know, and my canon rep was pretty specific about this, once you commit to the new 24p firmware (ie the one that isn't out yet) you cannot go backwards.

-a

Hi Andy,

I attended the Intermediate photo session earlier in the day. It was great. I learned a lot of little details on the still side of things.

Sorry I missed the video session in the evening. I saw your name on the billing.

And, yeah, I'd tend to trust the rep. He wasn't just some marketing guy. He was technically very competent - at least as a user, rather than a developer.

The "you can't go back" thing scares me a bit. I wonder if it will kill Magic Lantern and locks out the old firmware to keep the "hackers" out...

We will see...

ugh 24p or cropmarks, histogram and zebras.....hope this doesn't prove to be the case.

I can live without zebras. I can even live without crop marks. But if they take away Tramm's controllable audio levels, the camera will once again be worth much less.

Audio is a high priority, in my book. I don't often have the budget for a sound guy, so being able to pipe straight to the camera is just too convenient - and AGC means that's not an option.

If they (Canon) are smart, they'll implement ALL of Tramm's hard work (it would be nice if they gave him a royalty - buy him out, as it were - but, unfortunately, I don't see that happening) as well as give us their much anticipated variable frame rates.

But I'd guess I'm being uncharacteristically optimistic here...

I for one am hoping that Canon is taking its time on this upgrade, maybe to include some or all of those things. I think they have to understand how important that is by now and what it means to continuing sales. Since they appear now want to exploit the camera as a video camera too, maybe they will.

I'm not so optimistic about the audio but it doesn't hurt to remind Canon about this:
Here's what I wrote to my local Canon support.

"Please forward this to Japan. thank you:
Thanks a lot for preparing a 24/25p upgrade! There's just one thing missing from the announcement and that is manual audio gain control. Since the automatic gain control (AGC) is only usable with loud constant sound sources I currently record very good quality audio by using Magic Lantern together with an external audio amp. Without switching off AGC it's like listening to a waterfall anytime the AGC pumps up the volume in silent periods.
So please also include the option of e.g. four fixed dB steps just like on the Nikon D300s. This plus 24/25p would make me very happy and I'd promise to not use Magic Lantern again :-)"

If they change the layout of the NVRAM when the new features are added, I can see why this would be an issue. It is possible to check the version number in the structure and adapt to older releases, but doing the same thing in a forward manner would be difficult.

I am certainly excited to see Canon being responsive to customer requirements and adding the 24p/25p/29.97p frame rates to the 5D Mark 2-- it is a great camera and their additions will make it even better. Ideally they would merge in all of the features from Magic Lantern, although I suspect they will be much more conservative and we will need to port my code to the new firmware version to retain the audio control, waveforms, etc.

Canon might change the new 5D firmware boot loader to do all of the checks that the 7D firmware does when loading a new firmware image, including using SHA1 as an HMAC signature, but I'm confident that we'll be able to figure it out and sign our own firmware images. Progress is being made on loading new firmware onto the 7D and it is only a matter of development time now before we have a Magic Lantern port to it.

Very nice update Tramm. Looking like the future of these Canon DSLRs still looks bright
because of the Magic Lantern !

Best of luck with the 7D - and 24/25p 5D Mark II ports!

I have owned my 5D for about a month now (after going through SR-12, HF200, and an HV40 with Letus Flip) and have to say that I have been very pleased with it so far. I went and played with a 7D today and found many things that I really liked about it, one being the $1000 savings, the other was the frame rate options. But now with the firmware upgrade on the way and learning about Magic Lantern it makes my decision to return it for the 7D VERY hard.

Hello all,

I went to the launch of the 1D Mk IV at Park Cameras in Burgess Hill, UK. Whilst there I chatted to the guys from canon about the 5D MkII. I managed to glean the following.

1) The update should be available in Jan/Feb

2) It should include 50p 60p (although he sounded a little sketchy about this)

3) The AGC will remain in place

I had a little play with the 1D Mk IV but no memory cards were allowed as the cameras where pre production, so I couldn't really tell much from the LCD on the camera with regards to image quality, although saying that the LCD itself is very nice, and an improvement over the 5D MkII.

I hope this is of interest to people.


All the best,

George

They just may...have a look at this:

YouTube - Createasphere - Canon Intensive Workshop - Canon EOS HD Video: Shoot, Post and Deliver - Playback

I can't tell whether he is saying the other cameras have that option, but they are adding 24p to the 5D, so collectively, the cameras will have those options, or if he is saying the 5D will have 60p too... would love it.

It sure sounded like the 5D2 would get the same framerates as the other cams.

It sure does sound like it... but there was a little bit of editing in there, so who is to say that they weren't talking about the 7D? Ohhh... I can only wait and hope my 5D gets 24p and 60p...

Glimpse of new firmware for the 5d mark ii
 

GLIMPSE OF NEW FIRMWARE FOR THE 5D MARK II

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUsNN...layer_embedded