It doesn't prove anything. The 5D's sensor is substantially larger than this new camera's APS-C sized one and as such brings with it far greater challenges in delivering the same frame rates and resolution.

If Canon pull it off for the 5D great, but let's not believe it until we see it. Toyota thought they were a good car maker a couple of weeks ago...

Besides, there might be different clock speeds for the processors used between those cameras.

-- peer

720p60 has the same data rate as 1080p30. Unless they've architected the sensor differently in the 5D2 than the other cams, the data rate should not be a problem.

Processing the downconversion of the native size into HD is not that different between the two (21.1 vs. 18.0).

The difference in the size of the chips isn't as critical to the processor load as the number of photosites -- and that's not much of a difference.

Okay, Jon and Chris, that sounds good. But what about heat? The 7D suffers from excess heat, could this be a factor with the 5D?

I've always thought the heat issue in the 7D was due mainly to the dual processors confined to a compact body (same 2x proc. in the 1D Mk. IV but that body is significantly larger, and perhaps with better internal heat management). No way to prove out that theory though.

Couldn't you have rented a 7D body and used it with your current Canon glass?

Jumping through the rentals hoop just to work someone else's one-time
gig is probably more trouble than it's worth. I doubt that would have
been a practical thing for Bill to do. But now we're off-topic...

Thank you Chris. This was my point exactly.

A tangible example of taking a pass at something I actually wanted to do (this was non-paying, so that might help set context).

A very good news for me is that also the new Rebel T2i have full HD Output during recording:

http://translate.google.com/translat...son/index.html

So i think its very unlikley that the new 24p Firmware for 5D II will not have the same feature.


Daniel

That isn't the issue, it's encoding a 1080P60 HD image stream to AVCHD. A 720P image is 921,600 pixels per frame and 480P is just 345,600 while 1080P is 2,073,600 pixels. The 1080P frame is 2.25 times larger than 720P. That is a huge multiplier for the amount of work required to encode. The 720P60 encode probably requires less processor work than 1080P30.

Gotcha. I wouldn't pay to rent for something that wasn't paying me. But if it was a paying job, there wouldn't be a hassle - one phone call and I have whatever I need delivered in a couple of hours.

Still no firmware upgrade !!!
 

Well, my my my...... here we are at 2/17/10 and still not a sound out of Canon.

I guess I can live with 30p and just enjoy what I have, but I still think Canon should have used better judgment BEFORE letting some announcement spill out. Albiet, I still say it's not a legit announcement that it was coming, just that it was under development. It always leaves them an "easy out" if confronted by enough customers..... "due to hardware limitations, we were unable to get a satisfactory firmware upgrade to accomodate the requested frame rates."

"Oh, and thanks to all those who ran out and bought up the original 5D Mk IIs while in stores, as we're now happy to announce the 5D Mk III with new frame rates!"

February 17th, 2010. Day 48. We just finished the last of our last food reserves. Two more died last week. I'm not sure if it was the biting cold, pneumonia, or they just could not bear to go on living without the 5D2 firmware upgrade.

Some are starting to wonder if risking life and limb in these mountains is the only way to get Canon to deliver the firmware sooner than promised and with additional features like 60p. Now that Jon Fairhurst covered the deaths in a sobering clip posted to Vimeo, I'm sure Canon will speed things up. If not, the worst case scenario is one hundred and thirty four more days before the Canon deadline of "first half of 2010". With no food and the coming blizzard, I hope Canon is ready to shoulder the burden of so much tragedy.

5D firmware update
 

Dear Daniel,

That was excellent. It is snowing here in Birmingham now, even as I read that post.
"The biting cold makes many 5D users wonder when the torture will all end. When will we have our beloved frame rates? When will the Sun come out from behind the clouds?" LOL.


Saraswati Films | News and Events

Heh. Not going to happen anytime soon. The Mark III version of this camera is still a loooong way off (even longer than the Mk. II firmware update, believe it or not). If you're reading elsewhere about a supposed Mk. III, well, if you believe enough in that stuff to get distracted by it, then you sort of deserve it I guess. Meanwhile on DV Info Net we're dealing with real information and facts... and the fact is, as Daniel points out above, that Canon still has 134 days left in its self-imposed deadline. So there's still a shred a hope for you to cling to.

Yup. I hate to say it, but I've by and large quit looking for a firmware announcement at the video forums I normally go to because it's just turned into a bunch of whining about why it's not here yet. Newsflash - when July 01 gets here, THEN Canon hasn't met their "deadline" and you can start complaining. Until then, use the camera you bought which has the same features as when you bought it...

One Texan to another, Kevin... DV Info Net should be the video forum you normally go to. Just sayin'!

I can complain whenever I want.

And don't forget, complaining is probably what got us manual controls (back when, you know, there was no promise for anything by any date).

True, you can do whatever you'd like - but it just kind of looks like an impatient toddler stamping their feet if you do it now.

It's a little different to complain that something that has been announced isn't out yet, when the deadline hasn't been blown, versus asking for additional functionality that should have been in there from the beginning.


It is - this is by far my favorite production site/forum. I've learned more lurking for the past several years here than just about the rest of the internet combined.

He he

nice one Daniel.
Day 28. Just eaten the last of the dried cracker crumbs I found in the sleeping bag.

Can't…hold…out…much…longer…






Oh hang on. It's OK, just found the fridge again.

"This is by far my favorite production site/forum"

Me too. Particularly when there's poster's like Daniel Browning around to make us laugh while we're waiting for the update.

Very funny. Thanks Daniel.

I read a first-person post on another forum from a guy who went to the Earl's Court video show. Supposedly, Canon told him that the firmware would be available in less than two weeks.

Now for the boulder of salt: the guy has five posts. But his first posts were technical and credible. (He's not happy with the codec's block artifacts on large, flat areas like a clear sky. I agree. That's the weakest aspect of the codec.)

In any case, it should be here before long. As Chris predicts (and I fully agree), Canon will not want to go to NAB without the new firmware in our hands. So, maybe we get it in two weeks. Maybe not. But it shouldn't be as long as two months.

I was told "any day now" at Earl's Court this week.

And "by the end of January" at another London show before Xmas.

I was just about to ask the large canon guy at the stand when the release day may be when the chap in front asked the same question. He was a little offish and said "It will be here when it's here, I don't know anything more." at that point I u turned and went to watch the street dancers on the sony stand, much more friendly.

I went on the last day, so this guy had probably been asked the same question hundreds of times.

There seemed to be a 5Dmk2 on every stand.

In a far past, as a marketing manager, I was responsible for the display on big international shows. If, at any time, my company would have had a major novelty coming - like the 5D mkII firmware update- I would have trained my booth staff to answer politely, even if and when there were asked a thousand times.

Moreover, I would have given them more precise information concerning the release date so that they would'nt have to answer with a vague 'before june 2010' This is very poor marketing and even worse communication. In fact, I would have sent ghost buyers to check how my show staff responded and if any of them behaved like the one you described, I would have reprimanded my PR-manager heavily for his poor handling of the matter. But that was twenty years ago, apparently in the meantime 'keeping the customer satisfied' has been redefined. Nowadays, some people seem to forget that their salary is paid by the guys and girls who are buying their company's products. These last words formed the first sentence in my 'trade show manual' for all staff working on the booth.

In general:

today we have a better tecnology

yesterday we had better (and kind) people

Is this a good progress? Not 100% sure.

They are coordinating it with the release of the EOS Movie plugin E1, for Final Cut Pro.

This plugin supports Log and transfer of movie files from 5D mkII, 7D and 1D mkIV.

My guess is that they are taking their time assuring that everything works as advertised before making a joint release.

The EOS E1 plugin is planned for an early March release:

Canon Digital Learning Center - Introducing EOS Movie Plugin-E1 for Final Cut Pro

I'd say we're still two to three weeks out, round about...

Andree

I think you're bang on the money here Andree, and keep taking the medicine Billy. It sounds like you missed a dose there.

There's no reason to think we won't be getting the update soon, and every reason to think we'll get it by the deadline regardless.

I do think Billy makes a fair point about the manner in which Canon have handled this. They should have shut up or put up earlier IMO. Leaving us hanging around while other models turn up with the updates we require makes some of us feel cynical towards the company. But i have no doubt it's on its way, and having just bought a hoodman viewfinder at Earl's court last week, i'm looking forward to shooting when it arrives.

At the end of the day if it don't happen, well I had fun with the 5DMk2 I bought it on the day of release in 2008.

I'm sure if Canon had the firmware ready it would be out now, better to have a stable 30p than a troublesome firmware upgrade that was pushed out to early. It's coming, relax.

If canon released a 5DMK3 with no aliasing and variable frame rates tomorrow, I wouldn't be upset, I'd embrace the next stage in the development of video DLSR.

If they then in 6 months released a 5DMK4 with less compression artifacts I would still be happy.

You gotta love the way its going.

Since this thread really can't get anywhere until the firmware is released, it's time to close her down (I have already removed one rant from public view today -- note: this is a *technical information* web site. I'm not interested in rants. If you want to rant, start a blog).