David, you're right, it would be so much better if cameras stopped improving. I'm still hanging on to my Canon 814 XL-S Super 8 camera, waiting for just the right perfect all-encompassing Jesus camera (that costs under $3,000) to hit the stores. It's pretty frustrating. Same goes for my cassette walkman with giant headphones.

I'm with you on that one, but the real question is whether it'll have 60p or not?

I'd actually probably pay Canon $500 right now if they would give me an upgrade with 1080p24 and 720p60 tomorrow. Being able to shoot 24p in FF with the option of conforming 30p and 60p back to 24p for slow mo would easily be worth it. I'm literally going to cry if there's no 60p on the 5D2 because I don't really want a 7D... Ugh, the wait is killing me, patience is not one of my strong points as you can tell, heh.

Honestly, I'm like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde with Canon and the new technologies in general.

Half the time I'm just in awe that I can grab a little DSLR with a beautiful HD screen choose the right 35mm AF lens, compose, zoom, quick focus and "film" directly to a tiny CF card.
I mean it was only yesterday that I had to haul out an HD100 on rails with a bigass Mini35 on the front with whirling ground glass, and....

The same awe strikes when I walk into the studio and drop the card into the reader and open up Final Cut and Color and Motion and remember what it cost to run facilities that could do all of this just 10 years ago.

Same thing when I walk into my 64 track recording studio that I couldn't have even imagined 10 years ago when it was 24 tracks of tape, giant consoles and walls of processing, synths and samplers.

....where was I, oh yeah, but Mr. Hyde gets frustrated that I don't have 24p and 60p yet and that my camera still has an AGC circuit running.

I agree, professionally I would pay tomorrow for firmware that would give me 24p and over-crank capability let alone other enhancements. And I'm really not a patient guy either, or certainly never have been. But I think I'm becoming more so all the time, as I realize that I'm doing things creatively that weren't even on my radar a few years ago - and that's pretty unique in the history of creative stuff.

I don't even want to speculate about why it hasn't happened, whether it's a good or bad corporate decision or whatever. What I do know is that I was totally jazzed at the very concept of this camera when it was announced and was lucky enough to get one of the first deliveries. About 6 months and lot's of threads later Canon actually did what most said they wouldn't and delivered full manual control (remember the "old days" of full auto). Now just about a year after it's arrival we're looking at 2nd major pending upgrade. So I say, sooner would be nice, but boy do I like this basic paradigm.

I'll up you -- if Canon, tomorrow, gave us 1080p24 and 720p60 along with disarming the AGC, I'd gladly pay $1000.

-- peer

I'll up you one more. If Canon upgraded firmware tomorrow so that it did not do line skipping so we could avoid the ravages of aliasing and moire, along with those upgrades, I would pay another $ 2000.

According to an article on another forum it, unfortunately, will not.

Here's what it boils down to... I'm pretty sure that the 60p capability is directly tied to the dual Digic processors in the 7D and the 1D Mk. IV, and since the 5D Mk. II has only a single Digic processor, I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't get the 60p frame rates.

Wasn't that nothing but speculation really? I didn't get any sense they knew anything.

I've heard this repeated many times, and I'm inclined to believe it actually, but...

Just curious where the "pretty sure... tied to dual... processors" part is coming from?

What makes you think so?

I've never really heard anyone articulate anything on that beyond speculation. Is there more to it than that?

I do not have magic lantern... but I'm strongly considering it. I have some reservation.

So, say I have magic lantern on my 5d, then the 24p firmware update comes out... what happens? Would I still be able to install the 24p firmware update, even though I have magic lantern?

If anybody can help me out here, that'd be sweeeet.

Magic Lantern is run in-memory when the camera is turned on. So, using ML does not affect your ability to upgrade once the new firmware comes out.

However, if you do upgrade to the latest firmware, it's likely that you will no longer be able to use Magic Lantern (at least for a while). I'm pretty sure they would have to modify Magic Lantern to work with a newer firmware.

That is true. The current version of Magic Lantern only supports firmware version 1.1.0. (ML 1.16) There is work being done on ML 1.17 which will boot directly of the chip without need to go through a manual upgrade, but I am not sure anything will hit before Canons new firmware/

Yes, ML only works on 1.1.0 for now, but the day that 24p comes out, I'd bet that Tramm won't sleep until he's got it ported. I recently saw that Tramm had been busy with work, but his head is now back into the firmware. Hopefully, Canon will release 24p while Tramm is on a roll.

I think the information we have about 60p and two Digics is just conjecture. 720p60 and 1080p30 have the same datarate, so the encoder is not a likely bottleneck. The question in my mind is whether the 5D2 sensor can skip even more line/pixels than it does for 1080 in order to produce 720.

Sure, skipping more pixels for 720p is killer for the faster rate, but going the other way would be killer too. I'd love for Tramm to be able to window the sensor and not do any pixel skipping. That would give us a somewhat soft image with little or no aliasing. It would also turn my 200mm f/2.8 lens into a 600mm equivalent. It would pass just as much light as it does today, but with deeper focus than a 600/2.8 on full frame, due to the crop sensor.

I wouldn't always want the extreme crop, but it would have its applications.

I'm still hoping for the same frame rates as the 7D.

It makes sense and I'm keeping the fingers crossed based on 2 conversations with Canon about 2-3 weeks ago. I with tech support (who says it's his understanding that they will match) and the other with a person who works in sales and marketing for DSLR's at Canons head quarters in the U.S. He was referred to me by someone in Canon that I know. He also said he is expecting the 7D and 5D to have the same frame rates. Of course, both gave me the standard, we won't know for sure till it comes out.

The Panasonic GH1 doesn't have any dual processors and they have the same frame rates so I'm hoping the dual processors aren't a deal breaker or necessity.

I was hoping we'd something by now. Sure would like to know what's holding up the show.
It ould have been easier if they would have done it right the first time.

It makes sense that Canon will try to match the frame rates offered by the 7D. Hopefully it is true.

Jim Froom

A Canon guy told me we'd see it at the end of January at a trade show before Xmas, so i'm not sure how reliable these folks are. I'm starting a major project in March and will be reluctantly swapping mine for a 7d if it hasn't turned up by then.

Fingers Crossed!

Are we going to have 120p too?

Why settle for 120p when 2000p is cooler yet:
YouTube - Amazing Billiards in Super Slow Motion

-- peer

We can ask even higher: 1,400,000 FPS

as in

Phantom v710

which is illustrated here:
The Phantom High Speed Movie Gallery


Hope those links do not violate any rule of the site.

God bless us all!
Christian

Don't Believe It !!!
 

Sorry folks, but I simply don't believe this supposed "firmware update" rumored amongst this forum is going to come to fruition. Just because a bunch of tech geeks at some convention told you they "think" this will be out by middle of '10, or you received some email post from a UK contact; this simply doesn't verify any truth.

The same comments are being replied from by Canon..... "we don't know of any firmware update for the 5D Mk II." 5 millionth verse, same as the first !!!!!

Any supposed rumor, (and I sure hope/wish I were wrong on this) I'm starting to believe, was a 'scam' to get more people to buy their 5D Mk IIs during the Christmas rush, or to buy the lot of them up, before perhaps we see the 5D Mk IIs or 5D Mk III come out !!!!!

In other words folks, I think we're stuck with what we've got. I've given up hoping for this stupid update and am really disappointed that no one from Canon will speak out. Simple solution here Canon; just tell the truth. Are we getting a firmware update that will allow the same frame rates as the 7D, or do we live with what we have?

My personal belief, at least 'til this point, is that there's a reason we haven't heard 'jack squat' from Canon........ it can't be done or they choose not to do it. If before the year end in '09, someone from Canon said they're working on this, there would have been more publicity around this. Instead, Canon remains SILENT. You guys are just dreaming up $hit and listening to tech geeks' rumors. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if this were really true and the frame rates were going to be possible on the 5D Mk II, Canon would have been all over this with advertising !!! How many more sales could they have made by now if they would have come out with that statement as an OFFICIAL "yes it will happen" statement ??? Instead, it's only been RUMORED and there is no official commitment from Canon to hold them to !!!!!!!!!!

Sucks, but learn to live with what we have I guess. (sigh)
Color me the most negative on this subject, but right now, I am upset with Canon for playing along its customers like this!

How much more official do you want than an announcement on the Canon website. We are still in the first half of 2010. Nothing has happened to contradict the following announcement that was posted at the beginning of this thread.

Canon UK - Canon EOS 5D Mark II: Statement on Firmware Development

Man Billy, don't take it out on the dog what ever you do. It's not that bad. It's going to happen, at least 24p. Like watching water boil, it won't happen any faster by yelling about it.

Plus you're simply positioning yourself as the guy that called everyone dumb before the upgrade came. Aside from all the other stuff, Chris H is probably the strictest shepherd on the internet - let's say not prone to flights of fancy on his site.

Just reference his last comment on this and have a drink and enjoy stuff <g>.

It's not a rumour. It's an official Canon press release on 20th October 2009 (attached). Here are two key statements from the press release:

I suppose that it does say that they are 'developing a firmware update' & 'expects the firmware update to be made available' which doesn't 100% guarantee delivery but it's difficult to see how much more official the commitment to deliver updated firmware could be.

I must say, I've always been skeptical about Canon pulling this one off. Making the announcement 10 days before Red were due to make their Oct 30th announcement, which many believed would herald the release of Scarlet, just struck me as expedient and more than a little cheeky.

I apologize if I come off as pointing the blame at anyone on here. Not how I feel.
However, I do feel that Canon is FOS (full of it!) in regard to the supposed update.
Just my opinion. I hope I am very wrong, but for now; it's just my opinion.

I do not like how Canon has let this one roll on and on and on without comment. A simple "release" that they're attempting to develop something, does not mean it's coming FOR SURE. And with me, it's all about it also being available in the US. And with that said, there's been NOTHING said on any firmware update here in the States, that I know of.

Too many ironies here for me not to be suspicious......

1. announcement is made in mid/late October. Nothing more is heard since.
2. announcement is made close to RED info coming out.
3. Canon announces price DROP on 5D Mk II
Hmmm......... could they be developing a 5D Mk III already, with "new and improved" selectable frame rates as is the case on the 1D Mk IV and 7D ?????

In this economy, an organization would do anything to keep profits going. It's ever so convenient that this release is NOT an official "guarantee," and it'd be easy to come out this Spring and say "here's the new 5D Mk III with all the features our video customers have requested." It would be easy for them to say, "gee, golly, we tried, but the camera just isn't capable of supporting multiple option frame rates. Sorry suckas............ and btw, thanks for going out and buying up all the 5d Mk IIs while there were a surplus of them.

Again, I'm not trying to sound like I'm attacking anyone on here. I wouldn't do that.
What I am mad about it Canon's "silence" on this... simply tell us if it's true or not, and not through some UK web release that's really not "that" official. In other words, have you heard "new firmware coming?" NO! What you have read is that it is "in development and testing," and that was announced in October of last yr. 5 months have almost passed since that release. If they were making good progress, one would think someone would know about it, as corresponding sales would explode! They don't want to do that because of liability, IMO. Let everyone "gossip" about the release they posted on a UK site back in October, and by the time the customers are through the gossip / rumor mill, they'll have everyone believing this thing is going to have every bell and whistle known to man. - is perhaps what they figured would happen, and it's funny how you follow this forum and it went from an announcement of 24p 'under development,' to...

we're getting selectable frame rates
we're getting frame rates that match the 7D
we're getting other issues fixed
Canon will pay off my mortgage (LOL)

Okay, so I was attempting to be funny on the last one....... point being, the 'rumors' IMO, have even grown or been expanded on upon this forum, and perhaps that's exactly what Canon execs were hoping by TEASING us with this release of info (not a guarantee) on a UK-based site.

Call me skeptical; I've been called worse. I don't believe it 'til I see it, and I'm just very angry and disappointed with Canon right now, as I feel they've let this issue go on way longer than they should. Say SOMETHING for goodness sakes !?!?!?!?!?

I agree with Billy. It's pretty suspicious that they haven't released the firmware update yet. After all, it's the FIRST HALF OF 2010 right now, and that's when they said they'd release it.

Most companies exceed those release dates by several months, just like we're expecting Canon to right now. Scarlet is a good example. Those cameras started hitting the street months (maybe years) before they were promised.

Remember when Sony released the first XDCamHD cameras, and they said the U1 disk drive would be out "by NAB"? We didn't wait long for that drive at all! It's not like the sales rep strung us out for TWO YEARS saying "any day". They really exceeded expectations there!

Even as video producers, when you say to a client "you'll have it by June", you're usually churning out a final version around January, yes?

/sarcasm

All I'm saying is that Canon promised this firmware upgrade in the first half of 2010, let's at least let it get to July before we crucify them as "liars". Honestly, at this point in my life, I'd be thrilled if they MET expectations by releasing a version before June 30.

Well, Billy, in the vein of "never say never" it COULD somehow happen that Canon won't release a 24//25p firmware update for the 5DmII by 01 July, 2010. We really don't go much for rumors at DVinfo either, but beyond the initial posts containing info about the press release, the discussion in this thread as been not so much rumors as speculation.

We don't really encourage that, either, but it is almost inevitable with a topic like this and the mods let a certain amount of it slide. Please don't misconstrue those peoples' idle speculations (and some impatient ranting) here as "rumors."

The collection of conspiratorial "evidence" doesn't hold much water. FWIW:

- It is typical for many, if not most, companies to say nothing outside of planned public announcements. I wouldn't expect to hear anything more until an email shows up in my Inbox saying the firmware is ready for download. Nothing odd about that at all.

- Just my opinion, but I don't think Canon is concerned about RED cutting into its camera sales.

- Price drops can happen for any number of reasons, and if you look back you'll see similar price changes over time with many other cameras, even in the absence of an imminent new version.

- Developing a 5DmIII? OF COURSE! Development NEVER stops; companies ALWAYS have teams working on the next project.

MY opinion is that because Canon released this camera with NO promise or mention or rumor or speculation that it would add features later by firmware, and because the timeframe for the 24/25p firmware update has not passed -- not even close -- anyone griping, or angry, or disappointed at this time about the 5DmII not yet having 24/25p is simply off base.

I want the update like everyone else and also hope for 60p (not promised by Canon). Those capabilities will be a wonderful bonus.

How about this: if a 24p/25p firmware update is released before July 1st, everyone who posts a "Canon is FOS" post buys 10 other posters a steak dinner?

I don't know guys but from my point of view nobody should be pissed at Canon for anything. 5D is primarily was designed as a still camera, video option was an added bonus. At least this is how I look at it. I did not see any professional yet who was using 5DMKII as their main tool. It's interesting to see a poll of how many people (at least on this forum) bought this camera only to do video.
As for MKIII I am sure it's in the works, but at took about 3 years between I and II and I don't expect any major changes (timewise) between II and III as well.

How do you determine what a camera is "primarily designed" for, and what is "bonus"? IMO, If they put a "video" button on a camera, it's a videocamera. If they put a still shutter button on it, it's a still camera. This camera has both, it's a hybrid.

My car is a passenger car, but it has a trunk so I can get things from place to place. I don't think of it as a pickup truck, but when I need to buy a 2x4, I put it in the car just the same.

I was with you until the "car trunk/2x4" analogy.

I have Canon XL1 and there is a button to take still pictures so it must be a still camera after all. Thanks for explaining it to me after so many years. LOL. Mike, relax, you are too tense.

The car analogy was weak, I knew it when I posted it. D'oh!

Don't worry about it. But look at it from my point of view. Many video cameras (professional or not) have an option of taking still pictures but you do not go out and buy for example an XL1 to take still pictures with it. It's an added feature and its got a lot of limitations. Same applies here. I don't see why would Canon create something to kill its video cameras market. So 5DII does have its limitations, and I am sure 5DIII will also be very limited in its video abilites. Not the same as full video cameras, anyway. But I guess I can udnerstand people who bought it solely to take videos. I'd probably be pissed too.

I think you must have us confused with some other forum site, because we have always had a pretty firm policy *against* posting rumors here. In fact, we're well known for that, so I'm taking pretty serious issue with your insinuation that the discussion of an official press release issued directly from Canon somehow constitutes a "rumor."

The Canon UK press release is real, it's official, the firmware will be released prior to 30 June.

Can we dispense with all of this nonsense please. Thanks in advance,

"Can we dispense with all of this nonsense please."

Ah, the voice of sanity.

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest there will not be a 5dmk11 update "in the first half of 2010". This is an official Canon update and there are still a few months to go before the deadline.
I need it in March, or else i may have to trade in for a 7d, but there's no reason why Canon should oblige with my personal wishes. Their commitment is to provide it before the end of June, and not a day earlier. Reading some of the posts here, you'd think Canon had reneged on their word. They haven't. However, wishful thinking by many mkii owners - including me btw - has created a wave of disappointment that has led to statements that, as Chris points out, are pure nonsense.
I fear this thread has become a hostage to "watched kettle syndrome', and the kettle will not boil until all eyes are off it. Perhaps if we all avert our gaze and forget the Firmware Update, it will be with us sooner rather than later.

Well, I could go into why I thought there was more to it than that, but it doesn't matter anymore,
because it turns out that I was dead wrong about this anyway. Run, don't walk, to this thread:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/digital-...gital-slr.html

That's the new Canon Rebel, which shoots 720p60 and 480p60 (as well as 1080p30 and 1080p24) using
a *single* Digic processor (for less than $800 too). This is good news for the 5D2 firmware update... it
proves that Dual Digic is *not* a requirement for the 60p frame rates after all. See, I'm happy when I'm
wrong. That's the advantage of being a pessimist! Heh.

C'mon, you quote my book and don't put me in your reference notes.

And that is interesting about the single processor Chris. It at least gives hope that both will be included. It doesn't make a lot of sense for the best DSLR /movie camera in the world to have critical less frame rate options than point and shoots

I purchased the 7D over the 5dII to save a $1k and shoot be able to shoot in 24.

YES. YES. YES.

It never felt so good to be wrong, LOL!!!

Although, Canon still has never officially said anything, ugh! Now we really have a lower end model running circles around the 5D2.

I actually, for the first time, got turned away from what would have been a really exciting music gig because they were using shooting 24p on 7Ds and "didn't want to deal with the workflow hassles of the 5D2." That kind of sucked.