MA300 XLR microphone adapter

[Tom Elliott]

Just got off the 800 FREE tech support number.
The MA300 is BALANCED !!!!! That is the purpose of the attachment. So totally ignore the my last post. I also checked with Canon to see if the MA300 would work on my Sony HI8. It seems that the MA300 is designed to work on the hotshoe and needs the electroncs of the GL2 to use the XLRs.
So, it looks like I will use the MA300 for the GL2 and the beechteck for my HI8 backup camera.
Yours,
Tom

[David Ennis]

Originally Posted by Tom Elliott

I just checked on the specs of the GL2:
"Audio Terminal -10 dBV, less than 3 kohms, unbalanced "
So I would guess that the MA300 output is also unbalanced and that since it a VERY short distance from the MA300 to the input on the GL2 it doesn't make any difference...

Exactly.

...and just maybe ALL camcorders have unbalanced audio "Internally"...

Correct. Some higher end camcorders have built-in XLR jacks so a balanced cable can be connected directly to the camcorder, but on the other side of those jacks conversion to unbalanced circuitry takes place. But most cams have unbalanced input jacks.

[Tom Elliott]

Ok, here is THE answer ... from Canon.
=============================
Dear Tom Elliott:

Thank you for writing to us. We value you as a Canon customer and
appreciate the opportunity to assist you.

The MA-300 does produce a balanced audio signal. We hope this
information is helpful to you. Please feel free to contact us again if
you have any other questions or concerns.

Thank you for your interest in Canon.

Sincerely,

James
Technical Support Representative
==========================
So, the MA300 can input xlr blanced in out puts to the GL2 a balanced signal that the tape records.
You can't get any more of a difinitive answer that that.
Aside from the fact it is a Canon product, the reason for the high price is that it is an attachment that accepts input balance and the outputs balanced.
Ok guys??
Yours,
Tom Elliott

[Graham Bernard]

So, Darko, you've NOW got a BALANCED mic clamp too! Great eh?

This MA300 just gets better and better and better. I even got to use my optical scredrivers to tighten its screws AND get to locate from a supplier a spare scew that went walkabout.

Now where DID I put my "Beginner's Book on Irony"

Tom, honestly, thanks for that - really! The MA300 was the only thing that fitted into my knowledge base and budget when I was young and impressionable - I just soooo WANTED to capture video!

Best regards,

Grazie

[David Ennis]

Originally Posted by Tom Elliott

Ok, here is THE answer ... from Canon.
=============================
Dear Tom Elliott:

Thank you for writing to us. We value you as a Canon customer and
appreciate the opportunity to assist you.

The MA-300 does produce a balanced audio signal. We hope this
information is helpful to you. Please feel free to contact us again if
you have any other questions or concerns.

Thank you for your interest in Canon.

Sincerely,

James
Technical Support Representative
==========================
So, the MA300 can input xlr blanced in out puts to the GL2 a balanced signal that the tape records.
You can't get any more of a difinitive answer that that.
Aside from the fact it is a Canon product, the reason for the high price is that it is an attachment that accepts input balance and the outputs balanced.
Ok guys??
Yours,
Tom Elliott

Tom, I'm afraid that James, like a lot of customer service reps, doesn't not know his arse from his elbow. Don't ever think that such an individual speaks for the engineering department. It's plausible that the MA300 accepts balanced inputs, but it does not put out a balanced signal. Nor would there be any benefit if it did. Plus, the camera would then have to provide the circuitry to unbalance it so it could interface with the same amplifiiers used by the unbalanced external mic jack. The MA300 is expensive not because of any special balancing act, but because Canon is able to get away with charging a lot for it despite the fact that there are much better values out there.

[Tom Elliott]

Dear Fred,
I hope you don't mind if I quote (cut and paste) your e-mail to Canon?
I mean the guy works for Canon, and I really do not think that Canon would hire someone who would out and out lie just to keep a customer. That is fraud.
So, my question to you is just what is your background/authority/training that would give you the power to make such a statement as to the quality of Canon tech and his trianing?

[David Ennis]

Tom, you apparently took personal offense at my post. Sorry, none intended. I thought you were the victim of an incompetent response, and it reminded me of other incompetent responses I've gotten in the past, hence the strong language.

If you'd like to pursue any aspect of this any further, please shoot me an email and we'll work it out.

[Seth Palmer]

Tom and Fred-

Please don't work this out in private...we all want to know whether or not Canon was wrong! The original intent of this post was to find out exactly what you 2 were/are discussing....so discuss on!

I use 2 ma300's on 2 gl2's and was under the impression that they produce balanced signals...I use the azden sgm 2x, with a bit of black sticky tape around it to give it a bit of girth so that it holds nice and tight in the mic holster...the other I use for ceremony only to hold my sony utx b1 wireless reciever...they have worked flawlessly for the last 3 years! Oh, well I had to replace the black piece at the bottom which cracked...like $7.95 from cannon.

[David Ennis]

Originally Posted by Seth Palmer

...we all want to know whether or not Canon was wrong...

Note: James being wrong is not the same thing as Canon being wrong.

Anyway, what does it mean for the MA300 to "produce a balanced signal?" And why does it matter--what does it have to do with the quality of the recording? If we can't agree on the answers to those two questions there's nothing to discuss, is there?

[Tom Elliott]

Ok,
1: Fred, I did not take it personally, and that is one of the problems of e-mail in that you can't hear or see the delivery of the lines ;-)
2: I called Canon again last night before the 800 line went down. Talked to a different tech, thus no e-mail quote this time.
HOWEVER .... the MA-300 accepts XLR balance cables AND it outputs a balanced signal to the GL-2 according to Canon and a different tech.
So, as I understand it the whole purpose of a shielded (yes a new word here) balanced XLR cable is to assist in getting the cleanest audo signal as is possible.
Now in my discussion with the tech (told him about the 60cycle hum and the Cuban radio interference that was only eliminated by going 100% battery) that I could possibly try a UPS that has a few transormer outlets for cleaner power.
Since the power you get from a UPS is battery power while the battery is continually being charged it makes sense to try that too for clean power with no 60cycle hum. As to the Cuban radio, I don't know if the UPS would solve that for you are still plugged into the main ac outlets, thus working off 100% batter solves that problem for you then you are not attached the attenna effect of the ac wiring in the building.
I guess that is why major film/video production companies bring along their own power generators so they are guarenteed clean power.
Wow, I never thought I would have to know soo much tech stuff.
Aint it FUN :-0
yours,
Tom

[Tom Elliott]

Canon has just impressed me.
I just checked my cell phone messages.
Canon called me on the cell to tell me that one of the things that jumped out was the issue that we are currently discussing, mainly the issue of the output from the MA-300. They will call me back again. The specs on the camera: Page 156 of the instruction manual at the top of the page
A/V terminal input/output:
Audio output: 4dBm (47 kohm load)/3 kohms or less
Video: 1Vp-p/75 ohms unbalanced
WHAAAAAT! does that mean?
That last word "unbalanced" is on the "Video" line, so does that mean the audio AND video in/out is unbalanced or just the video unbalanced.
So much for the manual.
Anyway I assume that is why Canon will be calling back to clear it up.
Right now I am forced to agree with Fred, yes, agree, that the output is unbalanced, at least for that short distance from the MA-300 to the camera and for whatever distance from the camera any other device that can use balanced XLR cabeling.
However I think there is agreement that for the money, the GL2 is a good camera.
Now, if one wants interchangable lenses then that is a whole other higher level of capabilities and thus more money.
I could be that Canon created this level just to "temp" one to the next level.
Right now this is my main camera with the Sony Hi8 XR CCd-TRV65 being the backup or "B" camera.
It is a shame the MA-300 can't work on other cameras and that I would have to have a BEACHTEK adapter to use an XLR balance system.
Now BEACHTEK does have an adapter they say was made for the GL2. If that would also work on my HI8 then in an emergency if the GL2 takes a dive, all I have to do is switch cameras.
Maybe I should become an assistant to MONK ;-)
Fred, we WILL get to the bottom of this issue and the fact that Canon is now going to call me back to make the issue clear impresses me about Canon tech support.
Yours,
Tom

[David Ennis]

Originally Posted by Tom Elliott

...The specs on the camera: Page 156 of the instruction manual at the top of the page
A/V terminal input/output:
Audio output: 4dBm (47 kohm load)/3 kohms or less
Video: 1Vp-p/75 ohms unbalanced
WHAAAAAT! does that mean?
That last word "unbalanced" is on the "Video" line, so does that mean the audio AND video in/out is unbalanced or just the video unbalanced...

That's easy to answer for the A/V input because we can see all the contacts on the plug. There are four, so they can only be left audio, right audio, video and ground. Each of those three signals is applied between one dedicated contact and ground. This is a good illustration of why a ground terminal is often labeled "Common." When ground is one of the conductors for a signal, it is unbalanced. A balanced signal is applied between two conductors that are not connected to ground.

It's harder to speak with absolute conviction about the MA300 because it makes many of its contacts via a circuit board connector. However, the other two ways of getting audio into the cam (mic jack, A/V jack) being unbalanced means that the internal circuitry is unbalanced, so it just doesn't make sense for the "intelligent hot shoe" connector for the MA300 to be balanced.

[Chris Hurd]

it just doesn't make sense for the "intelligent hot shoe" connector for the MA300 to be balanced.

For the longest time I thought the same thing. In fact, I'm pretty sure that I've gone on record around here somewhere as saying that the MA-300 is unbalanced. However... after looking into this again just recently (as a result of this discussion), there seems to be every indication that is *is* balanced. All of the marketing info I've been able to come up with points to this (and they have no reason to misrepresent such a statement). What is particularly vexing to me, though, is that I haven't been able to come up with a .PDF instruction sheet for the MA-300. I have .PDF's of just about everything else, but not for the MA-300. After scouring the web I just can't seem to track it down. If somebody out there has the MA-300 and the instruction sheet that came with it, and can scan the English portion of it including the specs and send it to me, I'd be most grateful... Tom?

[David Ennis]

Chris, I suspect that the XLR connectors do provide a balanced input connection. Where we're at in this thread now is the relatively trivial fine point of whether the output of the MA300 is balanced. A couple of Canon Tech Reps are on record as saying it is, but I think that the smart money says they're wrong. Much more likely that it converts balanced to unbalanced ala Beachtek and the others.

[Tom Elliott]

Ok, here it is!!
Good news for Fred and a vindication for him.
Just got off the phone with Canon tech (his nickel, he called me)
Balanced in and for the short distance to the connection UNBALANCED!
So, Fred thanks for suffering the slings and arrows of me and others on this web board.
Now for a little more clarafication from the tech.
It is RARE to have in and out balanced, except for the really expensive cameras ($10-$20,000).
It looks like is is OK for that short distance to be unbalance for it possibly would only matter if you had a power cable actually laying over that short connection, and I really doubt that anyone would do that!
AND IMHO since it is a short distance this whole thread has been a MONK job, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, etc, etc, etc.
My only other concern was the device itself working on my back up camera, which it can't because of the hot shoe connection.
So, either I buy a Beachtek just for the HI8 or not buy the MA-300 and use the Beachtek for both.
In any event for me to upgrade to 100% XLR balaced cables, mikes, mixer and the Beachtek/MA-300 is about $1,000.
Since I can solve my radio and 60cycle thing by going 100% battery, I will use the money for a faster computer for video editing.
It's been fun.
Yours,
Tom