One chip Vs. GL-2 at DVinfo.net

Tony Marino · March 5th, 2005, 04:52 PM

Hi, the other day just for fun I decided to compare my GL-2 with a Sony Hc21 which is a 1/6 one chip. I did not notice any difference between the two when I recorded the footage via firewire to my dvd and watched it on my Sony 36 inch Hd tv.

Is it possible that one chips have improved that much? Can a one chip camcorder produce similiar results as a GL-2 or do I need to get my eyes checked? lol. I have not used one for recording in 5 years. How exactly does the chip size matter? From what I understand a one chip with a 1/4 chip will be better than a 1/6 inch chip? How is that so if they are both 525 lines of resolution? What do the gross and effective pixels have to do with picture quality? Every one chip camcorder has more gross pixels than the GL-2 (410,000).

Thank you,
Tony

Chris Hurd · March 6th, 2005, 01:17 AM

Howdy from Texas,

<< Every one chip camcorder has more gross pixels than the GL-2 (410,000). >>

Yeah, but the GL2 has three of those CCD's, so the total pixel count is really three times 410,000, which is more than 1.2 megapixels altogether.

<< How exactly does the chip size matter? >>

In two CCD's of different sizes but the same pixel count in each, the bigger CCD will have pixels that are physically larger than the smaller CCD and therefore gather more light; also, the larger the CCD the more control you have over depth of field in an image.

<< Can a one chip camcorder produce similiar results as a GL-2 >>

Yes, if the single-CCD camcorder has an RGB color filter on the CCD. If so, then the single-CCD camcorder will very closely emulate the color reproduction of a three-CCD camcorder. I'm not familiar with the Sony line, but the Canon Optura series incorporates an RGB color filter and mimics the three-CCD GL2 and XL1S quite well. Hope this helps,

Mike Donley · March 6th, 2005, 07:33 AM

Were the lighting conditions for comparisons similar to the ligthing conditions for the planned actual use of the single chip camera?

A videographer friend of mine once purchased a Canon Elura single chip camera to use as a third camera for weddings. He showed me identical footage shot with the Elura and then with a GL1. The footage was a pan of his yard while standing in the doorway of his studio. He challenged me to identify which footage was shot by the single chip Elura. It was a VERY close call, but I chose correctly. However, I mentally noted that the outdoor lighting was VERY good. I said nothing at the time. but quietly assumed that the results would be quite different once he actually used the camera for a wedding. Several months later he mentioned that the Elura was for sale. According to him, a comparison using the lighting in a church demonstrated that the image from a single chip camera was significantly inferior to the GL1.

I've noticed the same results with my Canon ZR50mc which has a 1/6 inch CCD. Neither the the Elura or my ZR50mc have the RGB filter. However, my point is that one should ask what lighting conditions were used for tests. Are the lighting conditions similar to the planned actual use? The RGB filter may make a difference in the quality of the colors (better satuaration), but would the results of the comparision be different in low light situations?

Chris Hurd · March 6th, 2005, 12:01 PM

From my own experience, single-CCD with RGB can closely approximate the three-CCD look only in well-lit situations.

Mike Donley · March 6th, 2005, 01:27 PM

Chris,
I re-read your previous response. You said, "the bigger CCD will have pixels that are physically larger than the smaller CCD and therefore gather more light...".

I'm jealous because you needed so few words to make the point. Good job!

Chris Hurd · March 6th, 2005, 04:32 PM

Thanks Mike -- every time I have to explain that, I try to whittle down the number of words it takes.

Tony Marino · March 11th, 2005, 06:35 PM

Thank you for the replies. Yes the lighting conditions were the same. Why would someone get a GL-2 when a canon optura would look the same as far as picture quality? From reading the replies it appears that there may be a little difference in low light because it's a 1/6 inch chip instead of a 1/4 inch chip. Am I not understanding this correctly?

Thanks,
Tony

Graham Bernard · March 12th, 2005, 02:13 AM

"Thanks Mike -- every time I have to explain that, I try to whittle down the number of words it takes." . . .Chris, what do you ,exactly?

G

March 5th, 2005, 04:52 PM	#1
Tony Marino Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 55	One chip Vs. GL-2 Hi, the other day just for fun I decided to compare my GL-2 with a Sony Hc21 which is a 1/6 one chip. I did not notice any difference between the two when I recorded the footage via firewire to my dvd and watched it on my Sony 36 inch Hd tv. Is it possible that one chips have improved that much? Can a one chip camcorder produce similiar results as a GL-2 or do I need to get my eyes checked? lol. I have not used one for recording in 5 years. How exactly does the chip size matter? From what I understand a one chip with a 1/4 chip will be better than a 1/6 inch chip? How is that so if they are both 525 lines of resolution? What do the gross and effective pixels have to do with picture quality? Every one chip camcorder has more gross pixels than the GL-2 (410,000). Thank you, Tony

March 6th, 2005, 01:17 AM	#2
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Howdy from Texas, << Every one chip camcorder has more gross pixels than the GL-2 (410,000). >> Yeah, but the GL2 has three of those CCD's, so the total pixel count is really three times 410,000, which is more than 1.2 megapixels altogether. << How exactly does the chip size matter? >> In two CCD's of different sizes but the same pixel count in each, the bigger CCD will have pixels that are physically larger than the smaller CCD and therefore gather more light; also, the larger the CCD the more control you have over depth of field in an image. << Can a one chip camcorder produce similiar results as a GL-2 >> Yes, if the single-CCD camcorder has an RGB color filter on the CCD. If so, then the single-CCD camcorder will very closely emulate the color reproduction of a three-CCD camcorder. I'm not familiar with the Sony line, but the Canon Optura series incorporates an RGB color filter and mimics the three-CCD GL2 and XL1S quite well. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 6th, 2005, 07:33 AM	#3
Mike Donley Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Shreveport, LA Posts: 96	In What Lighting Were the lighting conditions for comparisons similar to the ligthing conditions for the planned actual use of the single chip camera? A videographer friend of mine once purchased a Canon Elura single chip camera to use as a third camera for weddings. He showed me identical footage shot with the Elura and then with a GL1. The footage was a pan of his yard while standing in the doorway of his studio. He challenged me to identify which footage was shot by the single chip Elura. It was a VERY close call, but I chose correctly. However, I mentally noted that the outdoor lighting was VERY good. I said nothing at the time. but quietly assumed that the results would be quite different once he actually used the camera for a wedding. Several months later he mentioned that the Elura was for sale. According to him, a comparison using the lighting in a church demonstrated that the image from a single chip camera was significantly inferior to the GL1. I've noticed the same results with my Canon ZR50mc which has a 1/6 inch CCD. Neither the the Elura or my ZR50mc have the RGB filter. However, my point is that one should ask what lighting conditions were used for tests. Are the lighting conditions similar to the planned actual use? The RGB filter may make a difference in the quality of the colors (better satuaration), but would the results of the comparision be different in low light situations? __________________ Mike Donley

March 6th, 2005, 12:01 PM	#4
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	From my own experience, single-CCD with RGB can closely approximate the three-CCD look only in well-lit situations. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 6th, 2005, 01:27 PM	#5
Mike Donley Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Shreveport, LA Posts: 96	Well-lit situations Chris, I re-read your previous response. You said, "the bigger CCD will have pixels that are physically larger than the smaller CCD and therefore gather more light...". I'm jealous because you needed so few words to make the point. Good job! __________________ Mike Donley

March 6th, 2005, 04:32 PM	#6
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Thanks Mike -- every time I have to explain that, I try to whittle down the number of words it takes. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 11th, 2005, 06:35 PM	#7
Tony Marino Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 55	Thank you for the replies. Yes the lighting conditions were the same. Why would someone get a GL-2 when a canon optura would look the same as far as picture quality? From reading the replies it appears that there may be a little difference in low light because it's a 1/6 inch chip instead of a 1/4 inch chip. Am I not understanding this correctly? Thanks, Tony

March 12th, 2005, 02:13 AM	#8
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	"Thanks Mike -- every time I have to explain that, I try to whittle down the number of words it takes." . . .Chris, what do you ,exactly? G