Canon HV20 Press Release, Overview and more

Geoff Murrin · February 4th, 2007, 03:47 PM

Anyone have an opinion on this? As I do not own the Panny, and nobody has the Canon, I know this is next to impossible to probably comment on. But I'm hoping that any folks with experience with an HV10 and the Panny might be bale to make an educated guess.

Thanks,

Thanasis Grigoropoulos · February 4th, 2007, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Maybe it's about time we do our own charts... DV Info Net style. How does that sound.

DSC Labs is already a sponsor here. All of the elements are in place as far as I can tell.

Chris, this is a great idea! Great! Go for it! ;)

Thanasis

Yi Fong Yu · February 4th, 2007, 05:06 PM

i'm assuming this HV20 has lens threads... widescreen? nice.

Owen Meek · February 4th, 2007, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff Murrin

Anyone have an opinion on this? As I do not own the Panny, and nobody has the Canon, I know this is next to impossible to probably comment on. But I'm hoping that any folks with experience with an HV10 and the Panny might be bale to make an educated guess.

Thanks,

Geoff. check out the link http://red.com/technology.htm and see the difference in resolution for yourself. under controlled lighting the HV20 will kick butt! the HV20=1080p and DVX100=DV.

but resolution is not all the picture. the gamma curve on the DVX will capture a more natural roll off before clipping that equals better dynamic range.

Susan Joseph · February 4th, 2007, 06:16 PM

CAn HV10/ HV20 be used for real broadcast? Will broadcast stations approve images from this cam ? Considering this is a Single CMOS ?

Thanks for ur input

Owen Meek · February 4th, 2007, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susan Joseph

CAn HV10/ HV20 be used for real broadcast? Will broadcast stations approve images from this cam ? Considering this is a Single CMOS ?

Thanks for ur input

of course.. with content, they will take anything.. and 3ccd is so yesterday, color bleeding is not an issue anymore.

Paulo Teixeira · February 4th, 2007, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susan Joseph

CAn HV10/ HV20 be used for real broadcast? Will broadcast stations approve images from this cam ? Considering this is a Single CMOS ?

Thanks for ur input

Some TV stations have used the HC1 and the A1u for documentaries. As long as you are able to hook up a decent microphone to it, you won’t have a problem.

I’ve noticed that a lot of HD stock footage companies never allowed video from 1 chip camcorders but the HC1 became an exception.

Chris Hurd · February 4th, 2007, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susan Joseph

CAn HV10/ HV20 be used for real broadcast? Will broadcast stations approve images from this cam?

How would the station even know which camera it is... unless you told them?

Susan Joseph · February 4th, 2007, 07:04 PM

I have heard that Engineers at TV station usually check the footage thru Waveform monitors , Vectorscope and other hardware equipment to analyse the depth and quality of footage . So usually Single CCD camera give way and they will find that out.
However CAnon HV10/20 being an exception I dont think they will find that out, as long as their testing equipments do not scream.
Hence I just wanted some comments, from users who have already broadcasted their work.
Thanks

Bob Zimmerman · February 4th, 2007, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susan Joseph

I have heard that Engineers at TV station usually check the footage thru Waveform monitors , Vectorscope and other hardware equipment to analyse the depth and quality of footage . So usually Single CCD camera give way and they will find that out.
However CAnon HV10/20 being an exception I dont think they will find that out, as long as their testing equipments do not scream.
Hence I just wanted some comments, from users who have already broadcasted their work.
Thanks

it would be like,"what a great show. People are going to love this. But you better run it through the Vectorscope first Bill."

Jesse Bekas · February 5th, 2007, 12:12 AM

A scope isn't going to tell you what kind of camera the footage was shot on necessarily, just certain qualities of the video. CCD's being used is not one of them.

As long as it looks "airable," content is king.

You should see the kind of stuff that makes it to air where I work sometimes.

Chris Hurd · February 5th, 2007, 08:37 AM

A single viewing of any episode of Discovery's "The Planet's Funniest Animals" will quickly reveal that fifteen-year-old video shot on VHS or 8mm is perfectly acceptable for broadcast.

It's all about content.

Geoff Murrin · February 8th, 2007, 12:50 PM

In Chris Hurd's overview, he writes:

"There's a Cine color mode available as well, which can be used with or without 24p. It's actually based on one of the Custom Presets included with the Canon XH A1 and G1 camcorders, number 8 (Cine.V.) The parameters of that preset are Gamma: Cine 1, Knee: Low, Black: Stretch, Sharpness: -4, Color Matrix: Cine 1, Color Gain: -20, Color Phase: +5, Red-Blue: -5, Green-Red: -5, Blue-Red: +5, and Red-Green: +12. When the HV20 begins shipping in April, it'll be interesting to see how this Cine color option matches up with Custom Preset 8 from an XH A1."

Assuming it is close to the Custom Preset 8 of the XH A1, and with the idea of shooting as dynamic an exposure as possible, for either better color correction in post or for a film out, does anybody have an opinion as to how this Cine Color Mode stands up?

Thanks,

Thomas Barthle Jr. · February 8th, 2007, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanasis Grigoropoulos

Canon has started the last 6 months to introduce it's own DSLR CMOS sensors in it's camcorders. This is a big move! From what I understand (I am not a technical guy), it is significantly different to built a sensor for a camera than a camcorder. If I were Canon, I would definitely want this move to succeed (so that I stop buying my sensors from others) but also be very careful to built experience in this, before I throw my new technology into "pro" equipment. A failure in pro equipment will hurt Canon's name much more than a failure in a consumer camera! Remember that Canon has only one division which builts camcorders. No separation between "consumer" and "pro" divisions. IMHO, HV10 and HV20 are Canon's "test tubes". HV10 test their first camcorder CMOS sensor and its ability to capture interlaced. HV20 will test their HD progressive capturing technology from this sensor to the tape. No 24 full frames on tape, like 24f. Instead, 24 full frames in a 50/60i stream. A much better format for studios with decks ready to read this stream. It is a conservative, step-by-step approach, but it definitely makes sense! If HV20 comes through succesfully, I would expect a 3 CMOS implementation in an interlaced/progressive "pro" camera from Canon pretty soon!

P.S.2 This is what Sony did not do (testing on a consumer product their CMOS progressive capturing technology before going pro) with the results of V1E's progressive performance...

I've been traveling and just caught up. I have been reading in this forum long before I even signed up. I still have yet to buy a camcorder, been using my friend's old GL1, and was waiting for something cheap with 24p. I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT ON! I don't want anything too pro (yet) but I have a lot of ideas and want that film look.

Also, your comment about Canon testing their conversion to CMOS on the consumer market is correct as well. Why risk losing your cult following through claims of being used as lab rats. Everybody has been picking apart this cam since the forum started. Imagine a pro cam!

Thomas

P.S. Qatar! sweet

Yi Fong Yu · February 11th, 2007, 02:40 PM

the only barrier to using this on indie/negative budget shoots is getting cast/crew to respect the size of the cam. it's so small that they'll just brush it off as a VERY amatuer/youtube production and not a "real" indie with a bigger cam like pannie dvx100 or any of the larger xl series from canon.

February 4th, 2007, 03:47 PM	#91
Geoff Murrin Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 46	How might the Canon HV20 compare to the Panasonic DVX100 Anyone have an opinion on this? As I do not own the Panny, and nobody has the Canon, I know this is next to impossible to probably comment on. But I'm hoping that any folks with experience with an HV10 and the Panny might be bale to make an educated guess. Thanks,

February 4th, 2007, 05:06 PM	#93
Yi Fong Yu Trustee Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vulcan Posts: 1,564	i'm assuming this HV20 has lens threads... widescreen? nice. __________________ bow wow wow

February 5th, 2007, 08:37 AM	#102
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	A single viewing of any episode of Discovery's "The Planet's Funniest Animals" will quickly reveal that fifteen-year-old video shot on VHS or 8mm is perfectly acceptable for broadcast. It's all about content. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 8th, 2007, 12:50 PM	#103
Geoff Murrin Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 46	Cine Color Mode In Chris Hurd's overview, he writes: "There's a Cine color mode available as well, which can be used with or without 24p. It's actually based on one of the Custom Presets included with the Canon XH A1 and G1 camcorders, number 8 (Cine.V.) The parameters of that preset are Gamma: Cine 1, Knee: Low, Black: Stretch, Sharpness: -4, Color Matrix: Cine 1, Color Gain: -20, Color Phase: +5, Red-Blue: -5, Green-Red: -5, Blue-Red: +5, and Red-Green: +12. When the HV20 begins shipping in April, it'll be interesting to see how this Cine color option matches up with Custom Preset 8 from an XH A1." Assuming it is close to the Custom Preset 8 of the XH A1, and with the idea of shooting as dynamic an exposure as possible, for either better color correction in post or for a film out, does anybody have an opinion as to how this Cine Color Mode stands up? Thanks,

February 11th, 2007, 02:40 PM	#105
Yi Fong Yu Trustee Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vulcan Posts: 1,564	the only barrier to using this on indie/negative budget shoots is getting cast/crew to respect the size of the cam. it's so small that they'll just brush it off as a VERY amatuer/youtube production and not a "real" indie with a bigger cam like pannie dvx100 or any of the larger xl series from canon. __________________ bow wow wow

February 4th, 2007, 06:16 PM	#95
Susan Joseph New Boot Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Trivandrum India Posts: 16	CAn HV10/ HV20 be used for real broadcast? Will broadcast stations approve images from this cam ? Considering this is a Single CMOS ? Thanks for ur input

February 4th, 2007, 07:04 PM	#99
Susan Joseph New Boot Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Trivandrum India Posts: 16	I have heard that Engineers at TV station usually check the footage thru Waveform monitors , Vectorscope and other hardware equipment to analyse the depth and quality of footage . So usually Single CCD camera give way and they will find that out. However CAnon HV10/20 being an exception I dont think they will find that out, as long as their testing equipments do not scream. Hence I just wanted some comments, from users who have already broadcasted their work. Thanks

February 5th, 2007, 12:12 AM	#101
Jesse Bekas Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ridgefield Park, New Jersey, USA Posts: 572	A scope isn't going to tell you what kind of camera the footage was shot on necessarily, just certain qualities of the video. CCD's being used is not one of them. As long as it looks "airable," content is king. You should see the kind of stuff that makes it to air where I work sometimes.