Adobe CS3/CS4 + MainConcept = Great News

Daniel Symmes · November 8th, 2009, 11:22 AM

Aaron -

Play out from the XDR and capture in Premiere, assuming you have HDSDI ingest. Not fast, but will preserve the quality and move you on.

Aaron Newsome · November 8th, 2009, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Cherniack

Have you tried transcoding the clip to DVCProHD? It's probably your best bet.

David
AllinOneFilms.com

I think we both came to the same conclusion since this is what I'm trying. So I've decided since his editor can't work with high quality files, he can do the EDIT, not the final output of the finished project.

I can send him the DVCProHD files, they really are proxies at that point since he will export the premiere project to an EDL. I'll read in his EDL in FCP and reconnect back to the original XDR files. My thinking says this will work fine. Still a pain though.

David Cherniack · November 8th, 2009, 11:52 AM

Is the pain and extra work really worth saving the 200 bucks? The process you describe is fraught with all kinds of gotcha's and extra work. Unless the editors machine is a low powered wimpy thing that can't edit the mxf files, I'd spend the money and save myself the time & pain.

Billy Steinberg · November 8th, 2009, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Keaton

Note: This is not confirmed, but I heard that if one has a Mac with Final Cut Pro and Adobe CS3 or CS4, then the Sony 4:2:2 files are usable.

It would be great if anyone with this combination could report if this is true or not.

I just tried with CS4, but I have never used Premiere Pro, so I really don't know the housekeeping involved with editing using PPro on the Mac.

PPro can import and display the 100Mb/s nano .mov files just fine. I imported a single nano file, and watched it and then exported it. When PPro launched the CS4 encoder application, I couldn't find any way to export it without re-rendering.

I did set the PPro sequence to 1080i high quality, and I specified MPEG2 100Mb/s for the encoder setting. If anyone wants to give me a simple set of settings (for the sequence and for the encoder), I'll be happy to try.

Billy

Aaron Newsome · November 8th, 2009, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Steinberg

I just tried with CS4, but I have never used Premiere Pro, so I really don't know the housekeeping involved with editing using PPro on the Mac.

PPro can import and display the 100Mb/s nano .mov files just fine. I imported a single nano file, and watched it and then exported it. When PPro launched the CS4 encoder application, I couldn't find any way to export it without re-rendering.

I did set the PPro sequence to 1080i high quality, and I specified MPEG2 100Mb/s for the encoder setting. If anyone wants to give me a simple set of settings (for the sequence and for the encoder), I'll be happy to try.

Billy

Hi Billy. The editor uses Premiere CS4 on PC. The 100Mbs mov files from the XDR definitely do not work.

I'm not sure how you're doing this on the Mac, you must have a codec installed or something. There definitely is not a codec on the PC that CS4 AE or Premier can use.

Billy Steinberg · November 8th, 2009, 04:58 PM

I was answering Dan's question about Mac users who have FCP installed. I assume that the FCP installed codecs are being used by PPro on the Mac. I don't use PPro and I don't edit on PCs...

Billy

Dan Keaton · November 8th, 2009, 05:13 PM

Dear Aaron,

I think Billy was confirming that when Premiere Pro, part of CS3/CS4, is installed on a Mac, and Final Cut Pro is also installed on the same Mac, then Premiere Pro can use the Final Cut Pro's XDCam 4:2:2 codecs. But, maybe I am reading too much into Billy's post.

(Sorry for the duplicate information, I was delayed in completing my post.)

Billy Steinberg · November 8th, 2009, 05:58 PM

That's it. Importing to PPro was effortless, and the clip played just fine without rendering in the timeline, but I didn't find a way to export the clip without re-encoding it (unlike FCP); that may be due to my total lack of knowledge of how to use Premier Pro...

Billy

Aaron Newsome · November 8th, 2009, 06:40 PM

Ok, I decided the best way for me to fix this was to install Premiere Pro and see what works and what doesn't. My testing didn't get very far because I took my color corrected ProRes file and dragged it into Premiere and it seems to work just fine.

This is certainly a better option than DVCProHD.

I did not think this would work after reading some forum postings about ProRes in Premiere issues. I'm not really sure what this means at this point though. Some of my files are over the FAT32 limit so that's another issue I'm dealing with.

Steve Kalle · November 14th, 2009, 09:51 PM

Just in case you are still working on this, I will add a few comments.

First, you can pay $80-85 for Calibrated XD QT Decode. I have tried it with PPro and AE CS4 and it works just fine. It only works with QT files so mxf can't be used.

Second, I tried the Mainconcept plug-in and it does NOT work with QT wrapped Nano files (files downloaded from CD's site).

Third, your experience with ProRes working in Premiere is due to Final Cut's codec's and/or Apple's inherent QT playback. I think there is a free plug-in from Apple to play ProRes on a PC and/or that Calibrated XD decode software should work as well.

Dan Keaton · November 15th, 2009, 04:16 AM

Dear Steve,

The MainConcept Adobe Plug-In is designed to work with MXF files, as far as I know.

Note: We have had many reports, from credible sources, that the ProRes decoder, for use on a PC is notoriously slow. Our reports show that playback, on a fast computer, is limited to approximately 6 frames per second.

David Cherniack · November 15th, 2009, 10:26 AM

The CD mxf files (both old and new formats) are not being read in After Effects CS4 on my Axio system (unsupported format). I checked the MainConcept website to see if their 4.1 software works with Ae. Apparently not as they only mention Pr.

This is real bad news as one of the great advantages of editing with Pr is the dynamic linking with Ae.

Has anyone from CD been in contact with the Ae development team. I'm sure they'd be open to modifying their mxf support.

David
AllinOneFilms.com

Aaron Newsome · November 15th, 2009, 11:13 AM

Hi Steve. I did not have to get any plugins whatsoever in order to use ProRes.

I installed a fresh copy of Premiere on a windows system and loaded up the files and they worked great.

Edit got done and we moved on. It's posted on vimeo if you want to check it out. I did not do the edit. The guy shooting the 5D did the edit.

and yes I can tell which clips were shot on the 5D and which were shot by me. His are in focus!

Steve Kalle · November 15th, 2009, 04:27 PM

David, the Calibrated XD decode software works with .MOV files in AE and Premiere. I totally forgot to test AE and Mainconcept as AE is the most important to me.

David Cherniack · November 15th, 2009, 04:34 PM

Steve, are you using CS4 on a Mac? Mov files are not very useful when one is editing MXFs in Pr in Windows.

David
AllinOneFilms.com

November 8th, 2009, 11:22 AM	#16
Daniel Symmes Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA U.S.A. Posts: 146	Aaron - Play out from the XDR and capture in Premiere, assuming you have HDSDI ingest. Not fast, but will preserve the quality and move you on. __________________ nanoFlash Dealer \ nanoFlash 3D, AJA Kona 3G, DeckLink HD Extreme 3D +, Nuke 3D film/video production since 1972

November 8th, 2009, 05:13 PM	#22
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Aaron, I think Billy was confirming that when Premiere Pro, part of CS3/CS4, is installed on a Mac, and Final Cut Pro is also installed on the same Mac, then Premiere Pro can use the Final Cut Pro's XDCam 4:2:2 codecs. But, maybe I am reading too much into Billy's post. (Sorry for the duplicate information, I was delayed in completing my post.) __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

November 15th, 2009, 04:16 AM	#26
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Steve, The MainConcept Adobe Plug-In is designed to work with MXF files, as far as I know. Note: We have had many reports, from credible sources, that the ProRes decoder, for use on a PC is notoriously slow. Our reports show that playback, on a fast computer, is limited to approximately 6 frames per second. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

November 15th, 2009, 10:26 AM	#27
David Cherniack Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 186	Bad News The CD mxf files (both old and new formats) are not being read in After Effects CS4 on my Axio system (unsupported format). I checked the MainConcept website to see if their 4.1 software works with Ae. Apparently not as they only mention Pr. This is real bad news as one of the great advantages of editing with Pr is the dynamic linking with Ae. Has anyone from CD been in contact with the Ae development team. I'm sure they'd be open to modifying their mxf support. David AllinOneFilms.com

November 15th, 2009, 11:13 AM	#28
Aaron Newsome Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Rancho Santa Margarita Posts: 590	Hi Steve. I did not have to get any plugins whatsoever in order to use ProRes. I installed a fresh copy of Premiere on a windows system and loaded up the files and they worked great. Edit got done and we moved on. It's posted on vimeo if you want to check it out. I did not do the edit. The guy shooting the 5D did the edit. Mens Muscle Mania Promo on Vimeo and yes I can tell which clips were shot on the 5D and which were shot by me. His are in focus!

November 8th, 2009, 11:52 AM	#18
David Cherniack Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 186	Is the pain and extra work really worth saving the 200 bucks? The process you describe is fraught with all kinds of gotcha's and extra work. Unless the editors machine is a low powered wimpy thing that can't edit the mxf files, I'd spend the money and save myself the time & pain.

November 8th, 2009, 04:58 PM	#21
Billy Steinberg Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 121	I was answering Dan's question about Mac users who have FCP installed. I assume that the FCP installed codecs are being used by PPro on the Mac. I don't use PPro and I don't edit on PCs... Billy

November 8th, 2009, 05:58 PM	#23
Billy Steinberg Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 121	That's it. Importing to PPro was effortless, and the clip played just fine without rendering in the timeline, but I didn't find a way to export the clip without re-encoding it (unlike FCP); that may be due to my total lack of knowledge of how to use Premier Pro... Billy

November 8th, 2009, 06:40 PM	#24
Aaron Newsome Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Rancho Santa Margarita Posts: 590	Ok, I decided the best way for me to fix this was to install Premiere Pro and see what works and what doesn't. My testing didn't get very far because I took my color corrected ProRes file and dragged it into Premiere and it seems to work just fine. This is certainly a better option than DVCProHD. I did not think this would work after reading some forum postings about ProRes in Premiere issues. I'm not really sure what this means at this point though. Some of my files are over the FAT32 limit so that's another issue I'm dealing with.

November 14th, 2009, 09:51 PM	#25
Steve Kalle Trustee Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,554	Just in case you are still working on this, I will add a few comments. First, you can pay $80-85 for Calibrated XD QT Decode. I have tried it with PPro and AE CS4 and it works just fine. It only works with QT files so mxf can't be used. Second, I tried the Mainconcept plug-in and it does NOT work with QT wrapped Nano files (files downloaded from CD's site). Third, your experience with ProRes working in Premiere is due to Final Cut's codec's and/or Apple's inherent QT playback. I think there is a free plug-in from Apple to play ProRes on a PC and/or that Calibrated XD decode software should work as well.

November 15th, 2009, 04:27 PM	#29
Steve Kalle Trustee Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,554	David, the Calibrated XD decode software works with .MOV files in AE and Premiere. I totally forgot to test AE and Mainconcept as AE is the most important to me.

November 15th, 2009, 04:34 PM	#30
David Cherniack Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 186	Steve, are you using CS4 on a Mac? Mov files are not very useful when one is editing MXFs in Pr in Windows. David AllinOneFilms.com