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Next "HD" DVD format "war" has started"
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This is not going into the right direction (as most people have already warned). It seems that Paramount Pictures, Universal Pictures, Warner Bros. Studios and New Line Cinema have chosen for HD-DVD versus Twentieh Century Fox that has chosen Blu-ray. I still find it odd that although Blu-ray seems to be a "superior/ better" format most companies have chosen for HD-DVD. We'll have to see how this all pans out, no doubt the consumer will pay the price (literally) for this new "war". |
Although Blu-Ray is larger, as production goes, HD-DVD is superior. It is compatible with the current DVD production lines according the supporters of the format.
As for the 'war', the +RW Alliance started it, and they are the core to Blu-Ray. That is another reason, IMO, to not like Blu-Ray. |
It's unfortunate that people do not learn from history, which has repeatedly taught us that discrepancies in standards ultimately diminish the market by confusing and angering buyers. If this dual standard (oxymoron) continues the shock waves will be felt throughout the entertainment business for many years.
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Well I would have chosen HD DVD over Blue Ray simply because of backwards compatibility. You see, the average Joe likes simplicity, he had to adapt to the whole DVD thing and doesn't want to have to go through another change only a few years later. Sony I think is making the right move by using Blue Ray for the Playstation 3, games can use the added space for larger textures and game space in general. Plus, who would want to dump all their DVD's for a totally new format that doesn't work with their DVD's for future viewing? I've still got a garage full of VHS tapes that my family watches frequently, we've only upgraded some of those movies to DVD in Super Deluxe Special Ultra Edition- situations, like the Legend: Director's Cut 10th Anniversary DVD. This whole format war kind of reminds me of the whole Beta vs. VHS fight, Beta was supposedly better (tapes were smaller too) but Sony made the mistake of turning Beta into its Golden Goose and kept the technology to themselves while everyone else produced VHS. Well, that should give you a little idea as to why HD DVD is going to come out on top for the next generation of disc technology.
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Do you guys mean the laser is compatible or not? Because I think
the Blu-ray standard includes that players MUST be backwards compatible (for video content). I'm pretty sure I read that multiple times. I doubt any player would be released who would not be compatible with DVD. This player for example seems to be compatible, and I also read a test in the eastern part of the world where a player would read DVD as well: http://sharp-world.com/corporate/news/041111.html |
IIRC, the laser frequency is different between the two. I do not remember the track format. Sony Pictures is Blu-Ray because Sony is one of the original creators of the format (one of the 3 that are the primary Blu-Ray 'owners').
Just to add to the mix, I think it was announced last week that Pioneer has developed a ultraviolet laser format. That was pushing 500GB capability (probably if dual layer, dual sided). |
Blu-Ray players would, of course, house a second laser to read plain old vanilla DVD movies. Otherwise they wouldn't stand a chance, and nobody could logically back the format.
When it comes to these formats, all I care about is disc size, so I say, Blu-Ray, bring it on! |
Disney backs Blu-Ray...
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Blu-ray is NON compatible with older DVD formats and unuseable on conventional DVD writers.
Toshiba is backward compatible. Plain and simple. |
Bill: it is my understanding that both discs are not compatible
with *existing* players and burners. However, HD-DVD has a new hybrid form where one layer is DVD and the other layer is HD-DVD (so that is at least partially compatible). It is true that HD-DVD uses the same laser, so it is *more* easy to support DVD on the new HD-DVD players. However, it has been reported numerous times in the media that all major brands will support DVD playback on both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players (otherwise they would alienate the market, ofcourse!) |
yep, you're right Rob
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There is a new DVD/CD format out that also supports DVD-A. Even Sony which pushes SACD endorsed it. DVD on one side,
cd on the other. Compatible with all existing players. |
It is true that HD-DVD uses the same laser, so it is *more* easy
to support DVD on the new HD-DVD players. However, it has been reported numerous times in the media that all major brands will support DVD playback on both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players (otherwise they would alienate the market, ofcourse!) My understanding is that commercial Blu-Ray players would be made with both blue and red lasers in order to play both Blu-Ray discs and DVDs. HD-DVD players won't need that kind of trouble and should be much easier to produce than Blu-Ray because they utilize already existing production means. |
make me appreciate film even more, still just as compatible as it was when it first came out...
i think that dvd-hd will win out because media is cheaper, and compatibility is greater... just look at dual layer dvd+r versus dvd+/-r ...no one is flocking to it even though as a medium it holds more, because folks want to keep costs down and want to make sure there inteneded recipiants can play it... |
First of all, if you buy a Blu-Ray player, it's going to be able to read your DVD collection. I think they're going to include 2 lasers to do this, but what do you care how they do the magic.
Secondly, even if it wasn't backwards compatible, why the hell would anyone care? You can get a DVD player for like $40. Hell, they give them away for free if you sign up for a credit card these days. I've seen them sold for like $25-30 which is less expensive than some of my DVDs. Did I mention your Blu-Ray player can also play DVDs so all the logic of the above paragraph is virtually unnecessary. Finally, HD-DVD can store 30GB of information. Blu-Ray can store 50GB of information and they are currently working on Blu-Ray discs that can hold 200GB. Toshiba and the HD-DVD camp aren't saying anything about adding more storage down the line which basically means that it's probably not going to be possible otherwise they would would be countering the Blu-Ray camp's promises of more storage now and a LOT more storage in the future. So ask yourself, do you want to see a High Definition copy of "Return of the King" on a 30GB HD-DVD or a 50GB Blu-Ray. And yes, I believe that both formats will have support for the 3 major encoding methods (mpeg-2, VC-1 which is the same as Microsoft's WMVHD, and Mpeg-4 AVC otherwise know as h.264). Check this news story to confirm: http://news.com.com/2100-1041_3-5330786.html 50gb vs. 30gb. Yeah, one costs more. That's cause it's better. Edit: Disney just announced they'll be using Blu-Ray and 20th Century Fox is a board member on the Blu-Ray forum so they probably will also announce something similar. So at the moment it's looking like a big messy battle. |
Hybrid players will be needed. I will not choose because I need content that is from studios in both camps. However I will wait until I can get a hybrid that will end the damn confusion. I bet there is some company working on this right now.
Hybrid is the way to go until the the studios decide who they like better. I don't care about Sony's claim of 200GB. What's that have to do with viewing movies. It just means I'd have to shell out for a new player. I don't care about the difference between 30 and 50GB. The only time it makes sense is if you're comparing the same codec. |
<<<-- Originally posted by Hayden Rivers :
Secondly, even if it wasn't backwards compatible, why the hell would anyone care? You can get a DVD player for like $40. Hell, they give them away for free if you sign up for a credit card these days. I've seen them sold for like $25-30 which is less expensive than some of my DVDs. -->>> I think your missing the point...if you buy a hd-dvd disk you won't have to get an hdvd player...most folks will not be buying hd-dvd players in the near future, most folks won't be buying blu ray players... if you put out a disk on hd-dvd it can play in standard dvd machine (or so they say) and can play in a hd-dvd machine (of course)... it's one thing to put out a movie an expect 100,000 folks to shell out $20 bucks to buy it,... its another thing to put out a movie and expect folks to shell out $20 bucks for movie and $200 for a player... most americans are still trying to pay off there credit card bills after buying a computer, getting there kids braces, mortagage and host of other things, i don't think blu ray or hd-dvd will be on that list anytime soon, with hd cable and satalitte coming its going to be hard to justify a 'Sony Cost' for another player... now if you tell me that blue ray players will retail for $40 bucks, thats another story.... |
<<<-- Originally posted by Harrison Murchison : I don't care about the difference between 30 and 50GB. -->>>
What?! More space = better picture quality. How can anyone not care about better picture quality? |
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<<<-- Originally posted by Robert Mann Z. : I think your missing the point...if you buy a hd-dvd disk you won't have to get an hdvd player...most folks will not be buying hd-dvd players in the near future, most folks won't be buying blu ray players...
if you put out a disk on hd-dvd it can play in standard dvd machine (or so they say) and can play in a hd-dvd machine (of course)... -->>> No, no no. What they are saying is that the HD-DVD camp has two formats: 1. full HD-DVD (30 GB max) 2. HD-DVD / DVD **HYBRID** (15 GB HD-DVD + 4.7 GB DVD) Do you see the problem? The DVD layer of this disc is *only* 4.7 GB instead of the usual 9.5 GB we get now. So quality WILL DROP! Also the HD-DVD layer has only half the size of a full HD-DVD so quality is probably worse on that as well. No thank you. I'll wait for the market to decide where they are going, get DVD's in the meantime or perhaps some clever release from a studio where they have the movie in the package on both a HD-DVD and Blu-Ray disc (since most likely the extras can fit on this as well, it shouldn't be that much more expensive [in theory]). And I agree Hayden: this new format war we are about to enter sucks big time and we are the ones who are gonna pay for it! Any HD-DVD player and Blu-Ray player will play DVD discs, so compatability is not a good argument in my opinion as well. It's all about which is the best format or at least get behind one with all of the studios. Now it's split and that will be trouble! The site www.thedigitalbits.com had a nice comparison: Quote:
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"I still find it odd that although Blu-ray seems to be a "superior/
better" format most companies have chosen for HD-DVD." Beta v. VHS. |
50gb vs. 30gb. Yeah, one costs more. That's cause it's better.
That must be why I can rush out and rent Betamax tapes whenever I want. "I still find it odd that although Blu-ray seems to be a "superior/ better" format most companies have chosen for HD-DVD." HD-DVD content and discs will be a lot cheaper for studio't to intially produce than Blu-Ray, because they can use existing DVD production systems, whereas a Blu-Ray production system will have to be built from the ground up. Not that surprising, really. |
I find it rather amusing that people always decide what's better based on their own personal views without considering that other users have different needs. Ultimately, the winner isn't always the most logical choice from a technical standpoint. These things are driven by priorities based mostly on profit margin for the OEM. Sometimes fair market value wins out, but, not always.
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i guess my point of view is moot there Bill, ....but i will say that one big boost to blueray will be support by the playstions and if microsoft joins in the xboxs...
if current sales are any indications, at least here in the us those gaming devices are popular buggers and should boost popularity of this format... as a developer though i could care less, if my client wants blue ray i ship blue ray, they hd-dvd i ship that... |
VHS mostly won out because when the tapes were stupid expensive they had the most storage. People must stop comparing that format war to this.
There was no exisiting consumer architecture for cassette-tape video at that time. There has been a disc based video architecture in DVD, which is why HD-DVD has a strong advantage. If back in the day there had already been a Beta format for a few years, and then people had a choice between VHS and Beta2, VHS would have bit the dust. It's all about best bang for the buck. We're gonna get stuck with HD-DVD, and by the time media companies (not the public) deem that obsolete, we will all be moving on to flash-based (or holographic, if you believe that), solid state media. |
At least some players will support HD-DVD *AND* Blu-Ray (and
DVD, ofcourse)!! " Blu-Ray or HD DVD? Both, Says Thomson " Source: http://www.macnewsworld.com/story/Bl...son-38881.html |
Interesting find...multi-support DVD players
Rob, to me that's the bottom liine....all players support both formats.
It's silly to choose one if you're a content provider. The studios don't care about formats (minus the copyright issue)...they care about profits. If the players go on the market and support every format it's a win-win for everyone. The BluRay and HDDVD camps are facing a loser, but if they both get in the market it's going to at least be acceptable to the bottom line of their stock holders. To win the war seems like a good first move, but with multi-supported players coming it doesn't seem like there is war to win. You know what I mean? Anyway, I'm for the high disc capcity and first one that offered recordable media. That's where we all need to focus...the recordable media is where we all will benefit here in video production land. :) Murph |
seems to me that price point is a critical issue. If one format can burn any other format with a single laser head and the other competeing format needs two seperate laser heads, which one will cost more and which one will be more reliable?
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http://www.jvc.co.jp/english/press/2004/bd-dvd.html
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full 8.5 GB which is GREAT NEWS!) and a single blu-ray layer. This is far better than the previously mentioned hybrid form. |
Lucas talked about Blu-Ray back in 1999 or 2000 when word was he wouldn't go to DVD with any of the Star Wars until Blu-Ray came out. That wasn't long after DVDs were released (Q4 1997).
Personally, I'll just wait for whichever one is the standard, then I'll buy it. Right now, you can buy a DVD player that allows movies telecined to HD (before going to SD) to enchance those DVDs more, and another that up-rezzes to 720p or 1080i (or both) for HDTVs. Right now, I'm trying to figure out how to make my anamorphic HDTV play my DVDs in native anamorphic! They're stretched out horizontally and it stinks! heath |
First combo PC burner
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Hey, that Philips things looks coooool. The 25 gig single sided DVD blows away current dual DVD's....let alone the 50 gig DVD! I really hope Blu-Ray wins the battle.
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I still think this whole HDTV-revolution is an over blown farce. Not technology wise, but practicality wise. An up-coming format war means very little, IMO. Until you can pick up an HDTV set for 150 bucks at Walmart, I see little reason to be concerned about this format war. And while HDTV sets do look clearer then SD TV sets, the difference is not radical enough to warrant hundreds of dollars of extra spending by the average consumer...who is already loaded with debt. Also, 30% of movie-going Americans are still using VHS, and don't even own a DVD player yet! HDTV is years, and even a decade away from the average consumer, so by the time this war is settled, there might be a clear choice/victor. Until then, the only folks concerned about this format war are early adopters and tech gurus....such as ourselves.
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Also, while one could look at this format war as a big delay in bringing HDTV to the masses, one could also look at it as a big rush to drive down HDTV prices. The key factor in who wins this format war is price, and not technology.
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Ahhh, very true Glenn. But you see, that 30% of slow poke adopters is just that... "30%". It's like videogames really, in that there are still quite a few people that don't own a PS2, Xbox, or Gamecube, or even a Gameboy Advance! Does this possibly small percentage of people hurt videogame and console makers? No. I mean, if you can't get that 30% to buy HDTV stuff, aim at the 70% that do. Companies can't please everyone, so they please who they can.
That's why this HDTV-revolution is happening. The interest for HD, as well as digital programming in general, has gone way, way, way up in the past few years. So now the big tech companies are aiming to please. |
And I've noticed Adelphia Cable is giving people great deals on HDTV, since the satellite companies (like Dish, Voom!, Direct TV, etc.) are already doing it. Local TV stations, even in my market (39, I think--West Palm Beach), are now broadcasting in HD and my old station (WPTV) is still shooting DVCPro SD, but their "anchor cameras" on the set are HD.
I think this will ensure that HD will be the thing in 2006 or 2007, whenever the deadline is. Of course, that's what I think, but who knows if I'll be right or not... heath |
There is no HD deadline...only a Digital TV deadline...usually called DTV.
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D'oh! I forgot that it's DTV, not HDTV...
heath |
Personally I would rather have those LoTR extended editions on
a blu-ray disc (in SD) than on 4 DVD's, and it makes great discs for backing up things... but I doubt we'll see SD footage on the things and well, we all know the rest of story (war, prices). |
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