New Womble Editor edits 720p MPEG2TS at DVinfo.net

Paul Mogg · July 10th, 2003, 02:50 PM

Hi, just to let people know I briefly tried out the new Womble MPEG2 editor this morning, and it loads up and edits the MPEG2TS files from the JVC with no problem. What's more is it doesn't appear to crash! It also seemed to work fine on my less than fast PC. For simple editing this product may be ok, especially as it's only $120. I'll report more as I get more time with it. Another VERY interesting thing to me is that it apparantly will also load up Quicktime Motion JPEG files, and then compress them to MPEG2 TS files. I haven't tried this yet, but the docs say that it will do it. The significance of this is that for $120 you have a the missing link for those wishing to edit uncompressed on the Mac in FCP4 and then re-compress to MPEG2TS, just make your final output as Motion JPEG and re-compress on the PC. You can be sure I'll be trying it shortly so I'll let you know how it goes.

ps. the Womble website is at www.Womble.com

Thanks

Steve Mullen · July 10th, 2003, 03:22 PM

Paul,

I've been encoding using the Heuris encoder. The output file can be recorded using DVHScap to DVHS. Great!

But, no encoded files can be recorded by the camcorder. It displays an "invalid data" message" although the camcorder transcodes the video to component output fine.

This message appears if there is a COPYGUARD PROBLEM or a data INCOMPATIBILITY.

Interestingly, if you try to record back to the camcorder a file you captured from the camcorder -- it records perfectly!

Have you been able to record back to the camera?

Paul Mogg · July 10th, 2003, 04:16 PM

Hi Steve, I hope all is well with you.
Yes, I have been able to record back to the camcorder. But I have only tried with clips that I edited in MPEG edit pro or whatever that progam is called that came with the camera, not from Heuris encoded clips ( I only have the demo that will only encode 8 secs). I will try with Heuris and Womble encoded clips and let you know. Have you heard when Hueris might be coming out with their simplified (and cheaper!) encoder?
I've had no problem going to and from DVHS using the JVC 30k deck and the Mac utilities.

Steve Mullen · July 10th, 2003, 06:32 PM

The Heuris encoder is soon I hope. But, it looks like editing in FCP and then encoding with Heuris may wipe out the OKTOCOPY bits -- so I suspect you'll not get back to the camcorder. Please post your results.

It's nice to go to DVHS, but most would like to record back to the camcorder from a Mac.

Bummer.

Bob England · July 11th, 2003, 10:18 AM

You can only record back to the camcorder if the footage was originally from the camcorder. Here's how it is explained on p. 56 of the GR-HD1's manual:

To use this camcorder as a recorder
Dubbing from other devices in MPEG2 format is possible if the connected device is another same model of this unit. It is also possible to dub in MPEG2 format from a D-VHS VCR, if the source tape (D-VHS) has been originally dubbed from this digital HD video camera in MPEG2 format.
•However, if signals on the D-VHS tape are originally from an ATSC tuner etc., dubbing from a D-VHS VCR in MPEG2 format is not possible.

Steve Mullen · July 11th, 2003, 05:13 PM

You are right the manual says you can't -- but even JVC Japan does not know why! And they agree that it SHOULD be possible. Otherwise, edited material can't go back to the camcorder.

The most current theory is that a deeper Copy Protect logic is built into the camcorders. (To prevent copying Hollywood DVHS tapes? Why? Fear?)

Thus, there is a potential Gotha. If it is releated to Copy Protect, JVC may be unwilling to disclose the information necessary to enable recording.

It could even be illegal to crack the code to enable recording.

Which means DVHS may be the only distribution media.

Bob England · July 11th, 2003, 07:44 PM

Funny, when I first read about that limitation in the manual, I just assumed that it was related to the 30p frame rate and the 3 operating modes (720/30p, 480/60p, and 480/60i) that come from the NTT Isil chip used by JVC. That the camcorder just couldn't handle 720/60p or 1080/60i. Did you set your Heuris encoder to encode at 720/30p?

Steve Mullen · July 11th, 2003, 08:39 PM

<<<-- Did you set your Heuris encoder to encode at 720/30p? -->>>

17.8Mbps, 6 GOP, closed, and tried 29.97 and 30.00.

In every case I can find, the only thing that would go back to the camcorder were original captured files. Or, spliced originals. Or, the output from the KDDI NLE.

However, has anyone used the KDDI utility to output something encoded by a non-KDDI encoder?

If they have, then clearly the KDDI utility sets the bits right.

July 10th, 2003, 02:50 PM	#1
Paul Mogg Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Francisco CA Posts: 386	New Womble Editor edits 720p MPEG2TS Hi, just to let people know I briefly tried out the new Womble MPEG2 editor this morning, and it loads up and edits the MPEG2TS files from the JVC with no problem. What's more is it doesn't appear to crash! It also seemed to work fine on my less than fast PC. For simple editing this product may be ok, especially as it's only $120. I'll report more as I get more time with it. Another VERY interesting thing to me is that it apparantly will also load up Quicktime Motion JPEG files, and then compress them to MPEG2 TS files. I haven't tried this yet, but the docs say that it will do it. The significance of this is that for $120 you have a the missing link for those wishing to edit uncompressed on the Mac in FCP4 and then re-compress to MPEG2TS, just make your final output as Motion JPEG and re-compress on the PC. You can be sure I'll be trying it shortly so I'll let you know how it goes. ps. the Womble website is at www.Womble.com Thanks __________________ Paul

July 10th, 2003, 03:22 PM	#2
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	Paul, I've been encoding using the Heuris encoder. The output file can be recorded using DVHScap to DVHS. Great! But, no encoded files can be recorded by the camcorder. It displays an "invalid data" message" although the camcorder transcodes the video to component output fine. This message appears if there is a COPYGUARD PROBLEM or a data INCOMPATIBILITY. Interestingly, if you try to record back to the camcorder a file you captured from the camcorder -- it records perfectly! Have you been able to record back to the camera? __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

July 10th, 2003, 04:16 PM	#3
Paul Mogg Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Francisco CA Posts: 386	Hi Steve, I hope all is well with you. Yes, I have been able to record back to the camcorder. But I have only tried with clips that I edited in MPEG edit pro or whatever that progam is called that came with the camera, not from Heuris encoded clips ( I only have the demo that will only encode 8 secs). I will try with Heuris and Womble encoded clips and let you know. Have you heard when Hueris might be coming out with their simplified (and cheaper!) encoder? I've had no problem going to and from DVHS using the JVC 30k deck and the Mac utilities. __________________ Paul

July 10th, 2003, 06:32 PM	#4
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	The Heuris encoder is soon I hope. But, it looks like editing in FCP and then encoding with Heuris may wipe out the OKTOCOPY bits -- so I suspect you'll not get back to the camcorder. Please post your results. It's nice to go to DVHS, but most would like to record back to the camcorder from a Mac. Bummer. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

July 11th, 2003, 05:13 PM	#6
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	You are right the manual says you can't -- but even JVC Japan does not know why! And they agree that it SHOULD be possible. Otherwise, edited material can't go back to the camcorder. The most current theory is that a deeper Copy Protect logic is built into the camcorders. (To prevent copying Hollywood DVHS tapes? Why? Fear?) Thus, there is a potential Gotha. If it is releated to Copy Protect, JVC may be unwilling to disclose the information necessary to enable recording. It could even be illegal to crack the code to enable recording. Which means DVHS may be the only distribution media. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

July 11th, 2003, 10:18 AM	#5
Bob England Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: North Hollywood, CA Posts: 59	You can only record back to the camcorder if the footage was originally from the camcorder. Here's how it is explained on p. 56 of the GR-HD1's manual: To use this camcorder as a recorder Dubbing from other devices in MPEG2 format is possible if the connected device is another same model of this unit. It is also possible to dub in MPEG2 format from a D-VHS VCR, if the source tape (D-VHS) has been originally dubbed from this digital HD video camera in MPEG2 format. •However, if signals on the D-VHS tape are originally from an ATSC tuner etc., dubbing from a D-VHS VCR in MPEG2 format is not possible.

July 11th, 2003, 07:44 PM	#7
Bob England Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: North Hollywood, CA Posts: 59	Funny, when I first read about that limitation in the manual, I just assumed that it was related to the 30p frame rate and the 3 operating modes (720/30p, 480/60p, and 480/60i) that come from the NTT Isil chip used by JVC. That the camcorder just couldn't handle 720/60p or 1080/60i. Did you set your Heuris encoder to encode at 720/30p?

July 11th, 2003, 08:39 PM	#8
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	<<<-- Did you set your Heuris encoder to encode at 720/30p? -->>> 17.8Mbps, 6 GOP, closed, and tried 29.97 and 30.00. In every case I can find, the only thing that would go back to the camcorder were original captured files. Or, spliced originals. Or, the output from the KDDI NLE. However, has anyone used the KDDI utility to output something encoded by a non-KDDI encoder? If they have, then clearly the KDDI utility sets the bits right. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c