Well, you seem to be too focused on the consumer aspects of cameras. No self respecting pro would ever use a DVD-R cam. The format is not stable and not easy to manipulate in post. Tapes are tried and true and have stood the test of time. Hard drives are not practical in most cases and would require dumping every few hours to clear up space. Solid state media will be on some new cameras but VERY VERY expensive at $750+ for every 20 minutes.

For a documentary, tape will be the standard for quite some time. We are probably 5+ years from significant penetration into the prosumer market of non-tape media.

ash =o)

Thanks Ash, and...
 

Ta for that. I am basically a newbie, some experience in film and tv a long time ago. The purchase for me, though very little to pay for a camera, is in fact a large investment for me.

I spoke to a guy at the local CGD school today and he said similar things about tape. He seemed to think the stories of problems with tape mechanisms are few and far between.

He also said I might be better off to look at a single ccd camera but the bigger the lens the better.

I lookd up some of the models he suggested (vx2100, pd150) but they seem to have been superseded.

In all honesty, I think you're probably setting your sights a bit too high with regards to your budget... xe.com tells me that your budget is the equivalent of £733 roughly... unless very very lucky, you're not going to get a VX or PD cam for this money. But ignore the fact that the 2000 and the 150 are superceded, the new versions are essentially the same cameras with a few slight additions.. the bonus is of course they push the price down of the older models. The difference between the top end of Sony's consumer ("Prosumer") market and the bottom end of the professional market is staggering. I own the TRV950 and the PD150, sure the RRP of them is 2x the price, but there's only one camera in between and thats the VX2x00 (ok we should consider the PDX10 which is basically the TRV950 and PD150s bastard offspring heh, and in all honesty might well be your best choice.. more in a second..) so the range isnt full of cameras. Personally, I love Sonys and won't go back, especially if you like "pure video" (ie a camera that doesn't pretend its a film camera) and it sounds like you want to do something more documentarial from your description.

Definitely 100% ignore non-DV cameras. Microdrives are nice, but its a gimmick and 4gb? Well thats shooting in MPEG2 rather than DV which in all honesty, I'd prefer. Each DV tape is equivalent to close to 13gb of data, apart from the 4:1:1 space it shoots in natively, there's no extra compression of sorts. Plus.. tapes are cheap. Real cheap. No dragging around extra equipment to back up your drive, and DVD Cams are a consumer gimmick that only Sony (tsk, you let me down boys!) and Hitachi seem to bother with these days.

Now, regarding that lil PDX.. its small, it supports native 16x9 (which the pd/vx doesn't... BUT docu's are generally shot in 4x3 for a reason, to make it look nothing like film, more profiled shots in comparison to a wider screen.. adds to the realism factor) and also has XLR in's for pro mics. Invaluable!

Yes its gonna be harder to find one second hand within your price range, but see what you can find.. its a rare little camera in some areas i'm sure as it doesn't really fit in.. it just looks like a Racing version of the TRV, but they're cracking little things for sure.

As for lens size etc, triple CCD is going to give you better colour seperation, but lower light performance at that size.. personally, if I knew most of my work was going to be well lit, I'd go for the 3CCD option everytime, especially if the work was going to be serious. Alas with video, you get what you pay for, and a camera is a massive investment... but if its what you really want to do, definitely worth it.

David, since you will shoot in Asia, why not buy the camera there ? It will be much cheaper than in New Zealand and most of the countries in Asia use Pal.

And what would you think of the Panasonic GS400 ?

Thanks again and,..
 

Thank you.

See this is why I decided to ask here, because you guys KNOW

No Ben I had never even heard of the GS400. However I looked at one today, it's within my price range and seems a good possibility.

James I really appreciated the response. I looked up the PDX10 and if I can get one within price then that would probably be the optimum for me, although the Canon XM2 looks good too. The PDX10 and XM2 are probably a little over what I actually have to spend but i"ll keep looking.

Any knowledge of the XM2 here? I think it's a PAL version of the GL2

At least I now have an idea of what is going to work for me. Unfortunately where I am going in Asia is great for cheap software but not for hardware (not going near Singapore for instance).

Thank you

So thanks.

Appropriate camcorder for sporting events?
 

I've been doing sporting events for a community TV station with 4 Sony PD170s, and have been disappointed by their performance, especially at indoor hockey games. Sony seems to crush the blacks too much (even at 7.5 IRE); I'm not too fond of the colors it gives me too. The predominant white floor of the rink and the horrible arena lighting conditions don't help either.

Today, I learned that we will have the budget to change our whole infrastructure. My boss is in love with the XL1, and never really liked the Sonys... My guess is he'll most likely want to push for the XL2. Not that I don't like the XL2, but I like to keep my options open, budget permitting. I have to keep in mind that some of our camera operators are not all professionals. I have been eyeing the JVC 5100 with its full auto feature... point, focus, and shoot! (Not that easy, I know, but an option nonetheless)

So my questions are as follow: What camera in the 4k to 8k price range is best suited for sporting events? Auto focus is a nice touch for the uninitiated, but very unforgiving for certain shots. If going the manual lens route, what sort of lens, and camera settings, should I require to get the widest DoF as possible, so as to minimize constant focusing of fast action sports?

Thanks,

Cant really tell you much about other cameras but i do use the XL2. One thing that i like about it is that allthough it looks like this monster cam that must be really hard to use it is really good in fully automatic mode in case you need to have somebody use it who has no idea.

One thing i do use it for is for ice skating and it gets really good results. In case of a skating rink you simply set it on manual anyway as the lighting doesnt change.

I'd go for the XL2 for a lens with real reach and solid IS system if you are using it handheld.

If you're looking at a camera in the $4,000-8,000 range, you should probably look to be doing more than just point and shoot with it, in my opinion. If you're unhappy with the colours, a camera of that cost should have quite a few video settings you can tinker with to get everything looking just the way you like it.

About the depth of field and focusing requirements you mentioned, adjusting the iris increases or decreases the depth of field. So, if you crank the iris and set a matching shutter speed, you should be able to get the greatest depth of field possible and thus reduce the focusing needed.

The Saskatoon Blades - WHL hockey team in the city I live in - own a Canon XL2 and use it for game tapes and webcasts. The guy who runs is is strictly point and shoot because he doesn't really know a lot of what the camera can do, but it sounds like he's pretty happy with the results so far.

What kinds of sports do you intend on shooting? With hockey, there's obviously high contrast between the players and the ice so you'll want a camera that can have its contrast adjusted. Also, regardless of the sport, you'll probably want to shoot in 60i mode (pretty much every camera will) because it'll give you the smoothest results.

The XL2 might be a good option for you. See if you can rent one from somewhere and test it out.


-mark

I've been supporting hockey here in Dayton, The Dayton Bombers, starting on my 7th season. If you're not necessarily needing 16x9, you might want to consider the Panasonic DV200. It is a full size camera with both full manual and automatic settings. We got it with a Fuji 20x manual lense and the thing rocks. You can tweak anything you want to. It has 3 1inch CCDs which really helps out with resolution and low light levels. You can run it hand held or get the studio controls and run it like a full studio camera. It records on full size DV tapes, so you can get upto 3 hour tapes. It doesn't do 16x9 or 24p or 30p, but it does have 16x9 guidelines in the viewfinder for framing something that you would either letterbox or adjust later in post. I highly recommend it.

We shoot all sorts of sporting events: Soccer, football, baseball, and basketball. Hockey is but one aspect, but probably the most problematic because of the high contrast range. Our shooting standard is 4:3 60i, so 16x9 24p is a nice to have for other productions, but not a necessity. (Don't care for HD either) The Panasonic DV200 is a good camera, I have used it before. Alas, it is discontinued. And getting 4 of them 2nd-hand is a big hassle, not to mention potential problems.

The XL2 is a nice choice, and will try to get my hands on one to try it out. How do all of you XL2 users like the 20x lens in manual focus mode? Is it easy enough to get accurate focus using the color viewfinder, or would you suggest the BW CRT optional viewfinder? Is the peaking function usable? Is the free running focus ring problematic? I have heard that in auto focus mode, the lens tends to focus hunt on wide shots. Is this so?

My fear of using the JVC 5100 is that it might not be as solid as it looks. True, not true, who knows? Can it take on some moderate abuse? On the other hand, I have been looking at the Panasonic convertible cameras (AW-E650 series). All added up with all of the necessary options, it comes just shy of the price of the JVC 5100; and there are no RCUs included. It’s probably more robust, but has no recorder, and is not a full-fledged shoulder mount cam that can be reused in other productions easily.

While on the Panasonic side, the DVX100 seems to be an option, except for it's limited 10x lens. I believe the XL2 and the DVX offer an advantage over many other cameras because of their image customization capabilities (such as black stretch, gamma curve, etc). However, as stated above, the 10x lens is limiting. Has anyone tried the 1.6x Century Optics tele adapter? How is the quality? Any loss of resolution? Any vignetting present?

Other then that, camera options are limited in the under 10K range. The Sony DSR390 is discontinued, and it's replacement the DSR400, although superior in some ways, is a lot more expensive. The Pany DV200 would have been a nice option, alas... The XL2 seems to be more and more the only way to go. Am I missing something???

Choice of camera for feature film xm2/pd170
 

Hi,

I am planning on shooting a feature film towards the end of the year and wanted some advice on the following:

I have access to an XM2 or a PD170, i own the xm2 so i have experience in using it and know what kind of pictures it can produce. i havent used a pd170 though.

Has anyone had experience with both these cameras who might be able to give their view on which would be most suitable for a feature film, pros and cons etc...

Also, do people on this board who shoot on a canon, shoot interlaced or frame mode?

Finally, assuming a good story, acting, well shot etc... would shooting hdv give the film much greater sellability? anyone have any experience trying to sell dv/hdv films?

thanks for reading, i look forward to anyones comments

Tony

What cam to buy?
 

I hope this is the right place for my question....

I am buying a DV camcorder, maybe a HDV?

I have concidered the following models:

Panasonic DVX100

Canon XL2

Jvc GY-HD100

Panasonic AG-HVX200

I'm doing fiction stuff and will mainly be shooting 24p, what I seek is good picture quality and a cam that can create pictures as filmlike as possible.
Also I require a good sound option on my cam.

First of I will only be shooting DV (cause I will be editing the projekt on a PowerBook), but later on HDV might be really nice......

I hope somebody can help me or refer me to a place where the same subject is being discussed.

Regards

Anders

I really like the HD100.

Don't have one but if I had the money, I would buy it in a heartbeat.

Hello Anders,

I think the best thing for you to do is first to tell us your budget.

The cams you listed are all great cams.
My opinion is that maybe if HD isn't a must, don't look for one.
Be sure if you need it or not, because it's an extra expense.
As I have none of the cameras you talked about, I'll just talk about what I've heard about them.

Panasonic DVX100: great filmlook, but also the oldest model of all the models.

XL2: best SD cam, but pretty expensive of course. It's like the DVX but somehow sharper, interchangible lens system, somehow better audio options, but the filmlook is told to be not as good (out of the box I mean!) as the DVX. It's a more difficult cam to master then the DVX, but you should be able to get better results.

HD100: filmlook, but no option to go interlaced. completely manual lens, but is reported to be not that great, and the other option is a lens of 13.000 dollar. Is reported to look very filmlike, but also some people had some problems with them (look at the boards of the camera)

HVX200: isn't out yet. Is very expensive, no interchangible lens system. HD post production should be pretty expensive (in comparison with editing usual DV). I think it's like a updated DVX with some very nice extras (and I know that's kind of an understatement, but if you're only going for SD production, maybe for the price difference you should better get a DVX and a good tripod or microphone or...)

You really have to decide what you need
(interchangible lenses? HD(V)? ...)

What cam should I invest in?
 

I just sold my gl1 because I didnt like the grain and the low resolution that the gl1 tends to produce. I skate & film and I was just wondering what cam you guys would suggest. I would like to have a cam that has alot of manual controls and a cam that produces a high quality image. I was thinking about getting the HC1 or the vx1000 but im not sure about what cam I should get. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

Well you didn't mention what purposes you need the camera for. Is it for work or play , or both? How much is your budget? If you want to go HD with fairly good manual control, go for the Sony HC1 thats out, its a really really good price for the fact that it is HD. If you don't care about HD as of yet, go for a used vx2000 or perhaps a vx2100. All this dependin on your budget, and your purposes. But you can't go wrong with the cams i mentioned...

There was another thread that went through this recently. Same scenario. A skate vid guy who was debating a couple of cams. Do a search for it.

I think he ended up going with the GL2 because he also wanted to use it for family ocasions.

I say GL2, anyway. With a fisheye.

Hi again.

Well first of, my budget i around 5000-6000$, but spending lesser would'nt hurt me....hehe.

I think I'm concidering either the xl2 or the dvx the most at the moment, because the jvc is a bit more difficult to use (the manual lens, etc) and also for HDV it might be good to wait a bit until the format has really entered the market and becoming a knovn and used standard like DV.

But I as i have read I could get a bit better pictures with the xl2 compared to the DVX.

The DVX has around 450.000 px pr. CCD

The XL2 has 800.000

I don't know excactly what this means? It all ends up in DV in the end right?

Also the XL2 shoots real 16-9, which means alot as most of my stuff is done in 16-9.

But the DVX is smaller and easier to handle, and also has a nice flip-screen LCD.

But regarding the filmlook, you said the DVX should be better. But am I right that both cams can shoot real 24p?

Hard to choose......

Regards

Anders

Anders, do not bother with pixel count. I worked witx XL2 and DVX100 and i must say that both are capable of producing brilliant picture. My favor is DVX because of the form factor. XL is just too big for me travelling around all the time (actually I am working with XM2 a lot, but at this moment I am using DVX for some educational stuff). XL2 is great, but will you ever think of buying other lens? Off course if you want real 16:9 XL2 is better, but the best way for you is to try them both and then pick up your favour one. And for the rest of the money you can buy extra batteries, mics, decent tripod etc...

I agree, stop counting pixels. The right camera for you is the one which feels best in your hands, and gives you the most appealing image on a video monitor.

Recommend a Cam for me
 

Howdy, I perused the forums and I need some ideas. I have zero experience with cameras, less with camcorders. I'm looking for ?handycam? style dv cam. I'll be mounting on my sportbike for race footage and trip footage. I note some take decent still pictures and I want that. My budget is $400-$500. For editing I'll use a pc and it seems firewire is the accepted connect? Thanks in advance.

PS: I will eventually use helmet/pencil cams though I know even less about those.

Anders,

I currently have a XL2 and have been very happy with it. I spent a couple of months researching opinions and footage in these forums before I bought it back in late June. Even though I've been happy with it, I'm now thinking of adding a new DVX100B to my equipment list. Two big reasons - First, the size. Darko is right, I think it will be much easier carrying the DVX around than the XL2. Second, I've seen several videos in this forum that look just like film. And I think Mathieu is correct in that the XL2 CAN get that look, but the DVX gets it easier out of the box.

I have been watching the HDV stuff over the last month and a week ago said that I would get a HVX200 if I was buying one today, but I've changed my mind about that. I think HDV is great and everything, but really, I don't need it and from what I've seen the DVX's and XL2's can shoot some footage with brilliant colors. HDV footage (compressed and/or uncompressed) just requires too much storage space at this time (for my own personal taste at least), IMHO.

The XL2 does have the interchangeable lenses and easier manual focus capabilities as well as native 16 x 9. But the new DVX100B is just so much smaller, making it more likely to use because of it's easier handling.

With all that said, it sounds like you've really done your homework and are considering the right 4 cameras. This forum is a great resource for making educated decisions. Best of luck.

Look at the options on this sight as part of your research:

http://www.chasecam.com/

They specialize in what you are looking for.

Thanks for the reply and the link. I have a friend with this http://www.helmetcamera.com/ they look like they same cam.

64 views and one reply?

Well thanks alot.

I must say that i mostly lean towards the DVX100, because of it's size and becuse it should be a bit easier to use. But it irritates me that it does'nt have native 16-9 as I will be shooting 16-9.......But hopefully I will not experience the big difference.

Also reagarding the sound part, is it ok on the DVX, I of course plan on bying a good shotgun mic with the cam. I was thinking the Sennheiser ME66, because I've been working with it before and it was good. But maybe you could recommend a cheaper one that is just as good?

Anders

You may want to take a look at this link. Click below then click the fourth button that says "Location Sound Package." I've got the Sennheiser wireless G2 and have been quite happy with it. Thanks to Guy's video it took me 5 - 10 minutes to set up while watching the video (same link below).

http://dvestore.com/theatre/index.html

Good luck. Brian, from Zotz Digital, (one of the sponsors of this forum) told me that he was expecting the DVX100B's this week. If you are looking for a good price with good service (before and AFTER the sale), I've not found a better place for buying a camcorder.

Which 3ccd, 16:9 camcorder to get?
 

Ok, probably been covered in detail, but here is what I need.

3ccd (although the A1U CMOS may be a possiblity but I have not seen it)

16:9 Native (very important for me). I hear the argument that most people don't have wide screen tv's which is true, but wide screen is still a better format on any tv. My opinion of course and we have a 16:9 tv.

Would love the lowest LUX rating I can get. Not going to be shooting in complete darkness, but low light always helps

HD or 24P not extremely important at this time. Blue_ray on the horizon is interesting though.

Interchangeble lenses not a big factor to me.

XLR standard not an issue since there are adapaters with phantom power if needed.

Basically looking for great colors and a clear picture with 16:9 native and good manual controls.

I do not want to spend huge amounts of dollars and am not planning on showing movies at Sundance. I was looking at the Sony FX1, but am wondering if there may be something that fits my needs better.

Thanks for all help.

Sony DSR-PDX10 will fit the bill. I got one recently (used off ebay) and am VERY impressed with it (the one weak point is the low light sensitivity).

What is your budget?

Budget
 

My budget will be around $3500 give or take. The less the better :-)

I have both a PDX-10 and an HVR-Z1 (the pro cousin of the FX1). I've used the PDX-10 extensively and it's a really nice little camera and an excellent value if you're on a budget.

However the FX1 and Z1 are a big step up. For one thing the 1/3" CCD's on the the Z1 are shaped in the 16:9 aspect ratio. The PDX-10 does "real" 16:9 also, but its 1/4.7" CCD's are in the 4:3 shape. They are high enough resolution to give full quality 16:9, but there's considerably less surface area than the Z1.

The FX1/Z1 have far better manual controls and provide full on screen feedback. The iris knob on the FX1/Z1 is a vast improvement over the thumbwheel on the PDX-10 which moves in very noticeable bumps when adjusting in manual mode. The PDX-10 also has far fewer image controls in its customs presets as compared to the FX1/Z1 picture profiles. And of course the PDX-10 can't shoot HDV.

Certain things about the design of the PDX-10 mean that it doesn't really offer full manual control in manual mode (internal ND filters which Sony has never documented automatically drop in an out of the optical path).

Now of course the FX1 costs nearly twice the PDX-10 and the Z1 approaches 3 times the price. They are also a lot bigger and heavier (maybe good or bad depending on your needs).

So if you're on a tight budget and can accept a few compromises then definitely look at the PDX-10; used properly it will give you terrific 16:9 SD. But the FX1 and especially Z1 offer a lot more control, will give better SD quality, better low light performance and HDV as a bonus.

You could always go for the A1E.. no idea if they're any good, but its a nice idea :)

http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/cgi-b...m=sony_hvr-a1e

You might look at the FX1. $3500 is right in that ball park. I will just second Boyd's opinions here rather then fill the board with spam.

A1E is a single CCD. Michael was asking about 3CCD cams...

The PDX10 has now dropped from Sony's books, so the A1 looks to be the camera to aim for. It has its drawbacks, but the image quality will blow your socks off, and the price will widen your eyes.

Of course you've specified 3 CCD Michael, but that was before this single CMOS sensor hit the streets running. If XLRs are really not needed then the HC1 could be the camera for you - but only if you don't want the size and weight and cudos of the FX1.

tom.

Anders, if you say you'll be shooting 16:9 (as you will in any western European country now) then the Panasonic DVX is only for you if you plan to splash out on the Panasonic anamorphic. But this is a strange way of going about things in this 16:9 chip age, and I'd not recommend it.

The DVX100B looks very like marketing over engineering to me; an attempt to keep the DVX breathing while the HD cameras come on song. Not to say that's all bad, as Sony found out by writing N-E-W all over their PD150 and calling it a PD170. But it's a face-lift interim step.

tom.

Anyone reading this thread my also find the following thread interesting -

title: 16:9 - XL2 compared to DVX100A (B)
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...d=1#post378377

Especially with the footage that was just posted that has both XL2 and DVX footage. Both looked great. Just have to weigh out the pro's and con's for each on the 16:9 I guess. Decisions, decisions.

How about a Panon DVXL2? (or maybe it's Canasonic???)

Not entirely true I think. On Sony's European site they say the PDX-10P (PAL version) has been replaced by the HVR-A1E. Hower on Sony's US site they still list the PDX-10:

http://bssc.sel.sony.com/Broadcastan...sp=11&id=65263

I'd agree it's days are numbered, but also see this thread:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...t=49260&page=2

Yes both can shoot 24p, and the DVX is NOT better in getting a filmlook, it's just easier to get a filmlook with it (so I have heard).
But the XL2 gives you real 16/9 and other extra features (interchangible lens system, 4 channel audio recording,...)
I think the XL2 is the better cam of the two, but that doesn't mean it's the right cam for you, only you can decide that. The XL2 ofcourse comes with a 'better' price too.

Good luck choosing!
Maybe you can go to a shop and try both out?