Cameron,

I notice that you are going to do "corporate interviews".

I see no mention of lighting or audio, in your desires.

Might I suggest that you consider, that, as a bear minimum, you budget @ $1K, for each.

I know: OUCH!!! THAT HURTS!! you say.

But: Sloppy video = no more jobs.

<<<-- Originally posted by Dan Euritt : the advantage with an "lob" configuration is that you have optical image stabilization, flip-out lcd monitor, and a top handle... even a trained monkey can get a steady swoop shot with that kind of a rig! j/k
-->>>

Not certain what j/k means but OIS may very well cause problems when you are moving the camera like that and the LCD screen is just a distraction and something to break off. The top handle on a LOB just means that the camera is going to swing from side-to-side. Been there, done that.

To do it properly you have to watch where the camera is moving in relationship to the outside world. Otherwise you will probably run the lens into something.

I've tried both and the pro camera works better in this application.

Furthermore, you can adjust the aperature quite easy as you pan with a pro camera.

Need a consumer camera to do for now
 

Hi guys

I'm a documentary filmmaker, had a career until '94 when I reclused it in rural France for 8 years. I'm just getting myself back on the road and broke. My budget for a camera is $500. I know that's a joke budget but that's all I can afford give or take 50 bucks. I'm in a position where I am being asked to do work if I can get a servicable camera which would allow me to buy a realistic pro camera later.

I've looked at the Panasonic GS-120 but the indoor color rendition and low light performance turned me off.

I compared it with the Sony HC-40 which had better color and better low light and a hot shoe. And I'm leaning toward it but the touch screen manual focus seems really awkward.

I've been on the internet for entire days getting dizzy comparing specs, but I'm discovering that specs don't tell the whole story, since the panny's specs were more impressive than the sony, yet the HC-40 seems to have better overall image quality.

Can you help me out with advice and perhaps other choices?

Gosh this a novel I'm posting. I'm desperate and at the crossroads.

Well the Sony HC-40 has a LANC control too. So just buy the Sony HC-40 and then use a LANC Controller such as the Zoom Commander for manual focus. Here is a link to the Zoom Commander :

http://www.signvideo.com/zoom-commander-digital-zoom-controller_II_pro.htm

Someplace in the NJ/NY area, there has to be organizations like we have in San Francisco . . . Film Arts Foundation & Bay Are Video Coalition.

Both have full studio facilities and rent production equipment for very low prices to members. Membership is about $50 per year.

I'd suggest finding something like that, just renting or finding some people who have gear and want to learn the ropes from a pro. Indi features do that all the time. The Director sometimes only pays for food and drink, the crew bring ALL the gear.

I cannot imagine being able to do pro work with an low-end consumer camera. Not so much because one cannot get good pictures. But more than 50% of the sensory input from a finished production is sound and the consumer camera is very limited in that regard.

J/K or JK means just kidding...

Bill, both forms have their advantages, and now that you've heard them you should go to a close photo/video shop, try them out, and see what you think will be best for your applications. Some places will even let you pop in a tape and record on several cameras so you can compare the footage at home later (or in the store when you're done...and if you do this review the footage on a decent monitor, if they have one).

BTW, 1/3" chips are considered to be superior to smaller chips because they have a larger area for light capture and can therefore shoot usuable video with less additional lighting. High pixel count is more for consumer cams to get high MP stills. While high res chips can help video, they all have to get downsampled to 8bit 720X480 pix at some point, so their must be a limit to how much better resolution and sampling can even with 1MP+ chips.

I second what Mike says, but if all you're looking for is a stepping stone camera, you should check out some used models on Ebay... VX1000, TRV900, AG-EZ50, GL1,etc...You can find some good deals with better features than a new cam, and may have $$ enough left over for a usuable unidirectional mic (you can make a boom pole out of a $10 painters pole).

Mike, Dan, Robert, Jesse,

Many thanks for the advice! This is all very useful.

I've decided against the shoulder-mount because I want to get the best image quality in my price range. I was interested primarily in the Panasonic AG-DVC60 (coming out in Sept.) which works OK for me price wise, but won't give me the image quality of the DVC80 or the DVX100A (as far as I can tell.) The other shoulder-mount cams are way out of my league. I was only looking at shoulder-mount cams to look a little more "pro" anyway -- which I decided was a stupid reason.

As for steady shots -- I think that I should consider some kind of steady cam rig that I could use as needed. Seems like that would give me a steadier shot and a lot of flexibility.

Regarding lighting, I've been doing photography for a few years and have read 2 or 3 books on lighting video. While I understand that you can light your scene with darn near anything (my brother is a Hollywood gaffer) I need to find something that is small, light, transportable/rugged, and flexible -- I should probably start another topic on that question.

Question regarding video shops -- other than B&H in New York, are there any other places where you can see/touch/try the higher end video cams?

Jesse, your explanation of chip sizes vs. pixel counts made perfect sense -- that clears up my confusion completely.

Thanks All! This is a really fine community.
--Cameron

The DVC80 and the DVX100A should give you a superior picture, and manual control compared to the DVC30/60.

Understand, though, that any kind of steadicam rig is going to be expensive. Some members here have built there own for much less, though. Check out the "Photon Management", and "Support Your Local Camera" boards on DVInfo for threads on lighting and stabilization, respectively.

<<<-- Originally posted by Jesse Bekas : I second what Mike says, but if all you're looking for is a stepping stone camera, you should check out some used models on Ebay... VX1000, TRV900, AG-EZ50, GL1,etc...You can find some good deals with better features than a new cam, and may have $$ enough left over for a usuable unidirectional mic (you can make a boom pole out of a $10 painters pole). -->>>

Jesse, none of those are even close to $500. More like $1000 and above because, as you recognize, they are still viable cameras.

Help! Which Camera to buy?
 

I work at an outdoors production company but I'm not a gear guy. We're starting a new hunting show and I'm wondering what camera would be best for my needs. The following things are important to me. Small and extremely portable, at least 2 channels of audio that can be manually controlled, wireless microphone system for the 2 channels of audio, good in low-light, good in light contrast situations (sitting in the woods shooting into an open, well lit field), durable, switchable lens capability, and a broadcast quality picture. I've been briefly been told about the JVC GR-HD1 and I have some interest in that. HD is not a requirement. Would be used mostly in 4:3.
We already use DVCPro50 Camera's and I'm looking for something much smaller without giving up quality.

I'm open to any and all suggestions. I'm not going to pretend I know much about camera's so I won't even pretend. Also, would the JVC mini-DV tape be compatible to play back in a Sony DSR45 DCCam deck or a DVCPro50 deck?

How much money do you have to spend? Wild Boyz, an mtv wilderness show is shot on the dvx and i think it looks great. Cine gamma handles high contrast much more pleasingly.

Budget is around $6,000 +/- for camera, mics, tripod, batteries, charger.

Ease of manual operation is also important since the people operating it have logged many hours on professional cameras.

That JVC camera is only a single chipper and does not have interchangeable lenses.

There is nothing smaller than your DVCPRO50 camera that will give you the same quality. The smaller ones are going to be 1/2" chip or smaller camcorders, and they're not going to shoot in a DV50 format, and they're not going to cost under $6K with or without those accessories.

For that budget, you're limited to a DV25 camcorder, and further limited to a 1/3" chip one. You could look at the Panasonic DVC200 or the JVC GY5000. They are both in the $5-6K range, but with good wireless mics, tripod and power, you'd be over the budget. Also, they are bigger, heavier and require more batteries.

And, since interchangeable lenses is in your requirement, that leaves the only option the Canon XL1, at the moment. In fact, it's a pretty good time to buy one, since the XL2 is going to replace it in a week or so. The XL2 looks to be better and is native 16:9 with higher resolution chips and, more importantly for you, a 20:1 lens as standard. But, it's going to list at $5K, so with all the other stuff you need, you'd be over budget.

Anything you do other than another DV50 camera is going to give up quality. There ain't no free lunch in the video world. Mo' money = mo' quality. And, mo' quality = mo' weight. You want high quality, heavy and pricey, or you want small, light and cheap?

All the 1/3" chip camcorders (meaning the Sony VX2100/PD170, the Panasonic DVX100a, the Canon XL2--soon--, and the JVC GY300) are very close to each other in image quality. They all have manual controls and they all have 2 channel audio capability. The Canon XL1 (and soon XL2) are the only ones that have interchangeable lenses. If I were going to do a wildlife or hunting show or anything like that, I most likely would go for the Canon if I couldn't afford a fully professional 2/3" or 1/2" chip camera (or didn't want one because of weight and power consumption)...because of the capability of putting on very long lenses. The fixed lens cameras all would require the use of lens adapters, both for wide angles and for longer focal lengths.

If even smaller and lighter and cheaper is an issue, then the Sony PD170 might be your best bet, though you would have to use lens adapters. Same for the DVX100a. Both of those cameras are good, though the Sony has a solid reputation for ruggedness, while the Panasonic has the capability of shooting at 24 and 30 frames per second in a progressive scan mode (most likely irrelevant for you).

You're wise to spend the money to go to B&H to check out the cameras. We recently bought a Hollywood Lite Running Rig (steadycam type device) and I flew to L.A. to check it out. Any expenditure of a few thousand bucks is worth an airplane ticket to be sure, in my opinion.

My recommendation is to definitely go with a 1/3" chip camera, and the VX2100 is, I think, the most value for the dollar in that range

Yeah, you're probably right, Mike. Although here's an AG-EZ30 going for $400...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWA:IT

...and here's an AG-EZ1 (PV-DV1000) for $500, unbid on...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WDVW

...a VX700 for $480...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...834599217&rd=1

those aren't the same cams I mentioned, but they would be better than most of the new ones you could get for $500. Keep looking for deals online, specifically on Ebay and you should find something worthwhile...

PS - I wasn't trying to be sarcastic by saying you're right, Mike, and then listing Ebay auctions to try to prove otherwise. You are mostly right about those models, but there are a couple of VX1000's that look like they may stay around $500 on there right now. Ebay is a world of "who knows" if you look long enough (I got my PV-DV851 brand new on there for $200).

Thanks for the info Bill. Certainly lot's to check out. Anyone else??

When you say low light, if you mean light that is low enough that you have a hard time reading, then the Sony PD170 is about the only camera for you. Not a removable lens but it does have the audio you want and it is hammer-rugged.

Thanks Cory, Mike, Jesse

Your advice was very helpful and gave me things to check into. Unfortunately once the bidding gets advanced, I'm being priced out of the TRV900.

What about the Sony VX700 as a stepping stone camera?

Celia I think that cam would be great to get started. Hell its better than my ZR60. Also on a site I read it has a 1/2 chip, which is pretty darn good. Id say go for it.

The VX700 was a single-chip version of the VX-1000 and not at all popular. Not popular is not the same thing as not good.

If it had controlable audio, it would be an OK choice. \

You might think about shooting with S-VHS. A Panasonic 456 is down around your ballpark.

There are very good Hi-8 cameras out there but unfortunately, Sony stopped making the extremely good tape and dropouts can be a problem with the second-best tape from Fuji.

I used to work for a huntin show too...I agree with Mike as far as the PD-170 goes, I just got one the other day, but I do have issues with the lense, I don't think that you'll have enough zoom for hunting type applications. It would do well if your subject is close in, but that's not always the case. As far as low light, it is great.

I would go for the XL-2, because of the 20x zoom and the interchangable lens..

But that's just my opinion..........Happy Huntin...

Hi - What did you end up getting?

Never made a choice
 

We decided to hold off for the time being. For 80% of our clients to date, we haven't needed the new camera. When we have needed the higher-end camera we've rented.

Never made a choice
 

We decided to hold off for the time being. For 80% of our clients to date, we haven't needed the new camera. When we have needed the higher-end camera we've rented.

stay with the xl1
 

Why not stay with your xl1 and buy a mini35? You can then rent film lenses as needed per shoot. This not only gives YOU great picture images but it will give the CLIENT a very high tech professional "image" Look around on some of the other threads for pictures of the xl1 with mini35 setups. There is no way a client is going to think that doesn't look profesional.

Where can I go to compare a Sony DSR390 vs a Panasonic DVC200? I'm now looking for a higher end camera. At this point I'm looking to spend less than $10,000. Don't worry about accesseries such as lights/mics/batteries/tripods/etc.

Is one better than the other?? Also, what's the difference between DV and DVCAM tape, since the DVC200 is DV and the DSR390 is DVCAM?

The DVC200 is a proper $10k system, a 390 system will cost more, given everything you need.

DVCAM runs at a higher speed and uses 50% more of the space than DV, but the image quality should be the same. You rarely hear of any dropouts with DVCAM cameras. But, as noted, the 390 costs significantly more than the DVC200. I'm not sure it's worth the difference in cost for most people.

What are the differences between the DVC200 and the DSR390?

Steve-

I have been doing some filming for a hunting show and I use two cameras. I use a sony dsr-pd150 and a canon gl1. The sony has great low-light capabilities, great audio, and excellent video sharpness. Its only downfall is the 12x lens is not big enough for western hunting with shot over 300 yards. This is why I bought the gl1. It comes with a 20x lens and I put a 1.7x lens on top for 34x total zoom. It shoots great video also. The low-light isn't as good and the audio is horrible. If I were you, I would get a canon gl2, get a telecoverter lens and upgrade the audio with a good shot gun mic. The gl2 is compact and with your buget of $6000, you might be able to get two of them. I like using two cameras on a hunt---one for filming the hunter and one for the impact shot. With the teleconvert lens on, you cannot shoot closeups because of vignetting effect (porthole). It takes a little practice using two cameras, but it's worth it with the amount of footage you can get on one hunt.

Which network are you going to be airing on?

One other thing Steve. Chances are, there will be times when you are going to want to film two different hunts and you will need two cameras. Once you get going and people know you are filming hunts, you are going to be busy.

Have you thought about adding a western hunting affiliate to your show?

We already have a few DVCPRO50 cameras and I'm just looking to add another camera, for those times when all of the gear is out, without the expense of a DVCPRO50. My first thought was a smaller camera such as the Sony PD170 or even the canon XL2 (we already have an XL1s), but my thought now is to get a bigger camera such as the DVC200.

I'm not sure what camera would best suit my needs without spending the high end dollar of another DVCPRO50. I hope this helps.

Probably the closest thing to the DVCPRO50 camera would be a DSR570, but with a decent lens, batteries, etc., you're talking around $25K, and it's still DV25. So, it all depends on what you want to spend. I personally would prefer to stick with DVCPRO50 if at all possible...maybe consider looking for a good used one?
The 1/2" chip Panasonic DVC200 would be better than the 1/3" chip cameras.

What do you think a good used DVCPRO50 would go for and how is it different than a DVC200? Again, I'm not the most technically savvy person, that's why I ask.

DVCPRO50 is a better quality format than DV25. Most people can barely tell the difference, if any, between DV50 and Digibeta. I don't know what a used camcorder would go for. I believe the SDX900 sells for close to $40K with lens and power, and it's too new for many used ones to be around. I wonder if Panasonic has a B-stock thing for their broadcast line as Sony does. That would be the place to look.

The DVC200 is a 1/2" chip DV25 camera. To my knowledge all the DVCPRO50 cameras are 2/3" chip higher end ones. Don't confuse Panasonic's DVCPRO50 with their DVCPRO, which is a DV25 format. People just say DVCPRO when they mean Panasonic's DVCPRO25. It seems to be the format of choice more for local TV news than for production people who tend to lean toward DVCAM, which is Sony's professional version of DV, but DVCAM and DVCPRO and DV are all DV25 formats. DVCPRO50 is a different animal entirely, and costs a lot more.

I like Adrian's idea of the mini35.

You've stated there is no real reason to buy a shouldermount, and even stated there are real reasons not to - you don't like them.

It's just the image thing, you admit.

If you feel bowing to image is unavoidable that's unfortunate but don't go to the extreme of purchasing a cam you don't feel otherwise inclined to purchase!

Turn a dull act into an exciting one - use the oppurtunity to get a mini35!

Then when you do feel it's time to move from the xl1, you can take your mini35 and lenses with ya...

Just my opinion.

Which cam is better for me, I have the trv900 now
 

I have a sony trv900 which I like but I may upgrade to perhaps an xl2, vdx100a, or the pd170. My usuage is to tape our co. events for self promotion on dvd and the web.

Which camera is an upgrade and most practical for me?

A local camera shop has had the xl2 for 3 days, I ran some footage from it as well as on the trv for comparison last night. I am not familiar with 24p. How can I best compare the output with fcp hd to see the major improvements. I noticed right off that the resolution was better as well as zooming.

gar/ohio

I would say that any of these three cameras would be perfectly fine for what you want to do. Perhaps others will chime about 30p as it relates to dvd and web video compatibility. Doing searches here on each of these cams and/or visiting the appropriate forums will help too. I shoot with the PD170 and love it love it love it!

I also have a TRV900 and was ready to upgrade. The cameras you mention may be overkill for what you describe. Unless you need XLR audio in the camera, you may want to consider the Sony VX2100 and Canon GL2. They are both good event cameras. You don't need 24p (DVX100a) or even 30p (XL1, XL2, GL2) for that matter. Also, you can pickup a used XL1s on ebay for about the same $2500 as the VX2100 or GL2. The VX2100 will give you a better image than the GL2.