From the PD170 user's manual:

"Using the data code function

Your camcorder automatically records not only images on the tape but also the recording data (date/time or various settings when recorded).

Press DATA CODE on the camcorder or on the Remote Commander supplied with your camcorder in playback mode."


FWIW, the DSR PDX10 also does this (and has XLR audio, 16:9, but not as much manual control as the 170). Not as good in lower light, but at a good price ($1850).

The VX1000 is quite old now, and it's going to be difficult to find one in decent condition. The GL1 has been discontinued for a couple of years by now. If both cameras were still in production, I would go for the VX1000 over the GL1. But, given the age, I'd probably go for a GL1...but be sure to verify that it doesn't have a dead pixel and that the heads are in alignment. These two problems seemed to be talked about a lot when that camera was made.
Turn on the camera and hook a video cable out to a monitor. Stop the lens down to black and look at the monitor carefully and make sure you don't see a tiny white spot, or sometimes a colored spot. That indicates a dead pixel and the camera is pretty much worthless. To check head alignment, record something, then take the tape and play it back on another camera or deck to make sure it plays OK. If the camera's heads are screwy, the tape will play on the camera that recorded it, but usually not on any other camera or deck.

You might want to see if you can squeeze out a little more money and go for a TRV950 as the above poster suggested. And Panasonic is supposed to have a Something-400 coming out next month that is similar to the 950. Dont' know the cost.

Web cam for a Mac
 

Is there a program for hooking a dv cam to the computer? I have a optura 20.

Thanks

RB

Canon makes a product called DV Messenger that is Mac OS X compatible. there is also a product called EvoCam that I use and I'm very happy with the results.

ichatAV will use any firewire camera as a webcam, even and PD170 or up!

The HD10u isn't working with the ichatAV. Unless someone else has gotten it to work??

Murph

small camcorder recommendation
 

I'm a XL1s shooter. Do mostly action and have not been following the latest and greatest when it comes to consumer camcorders. Trying to stay on my toes with FCP etc. But Im currently working on project and need some help.

We're building a pretty sophisticated flight platform that eventually will be HD (we're playing now with the JVC HD10u) but for our first on-site assignment in Europe, we need something in the one pound range that we can test our pan/tilt mechanism.

We're also playing with 3CCD security style cameras and the new Recon board from fast forward video as a direct to disk recorder to put airborne, but we've also come up with a time constraint.

So... knowing that this is not the long term solution to our filming needs, what 1lb prosumer/consumer camcorder is available that produces pleasing color similar to XL1s or GL1/2. Most all of the project will be shot with multiple cameras, but we're hoping to blend in some air footage. LANC control would be nice, but we could care less about the viewfinder(s) playback, usb, ilink etc. Just quality image onto miniDV.

I'm looking at the Optura 300, but not sure about what else is available.

Bob Bingham
http://www.gliderking.com

which camcorder to buy PV-DV953 or TRV900/950
 

hi guys.

I'm fairly new to camcorder, and like anyone would start, i began by reading reviews. At first i was inclined to get panasonic's GS120, because its cheap and small. However, for the money i am told that i should either get DV953 or a used TRV900/950. I would like to get people's opinion on this.

I will mostly be using this camera for skiing (water, snow), wakeboarding. Is the TRV900 to big to transport on a mountain? Should i still consider getting the GS120? Thanks in advance for any input.

Mark

I've got a TRV900 and I consider it small, but my main cameras are big. So I guess it's a matter of what you are accustomed to. For your purposes, I think smaller would be better. If you go for something like the 950, I'd do that over a used 900 if you can afford it. I think they're selling for around $1600 from places like B&H. The 953 is supposed to be more compact, but I haven't seen one in person. I do know it has slightly smaller chips, so I would be inclined to go for the Sony. Panasonic has a new GS400 supposedly coming out in a month or so that looks to be directly competitive to the Sony 950 but a little smaller. You might want to track down the specs on that one. Personally, I'd go for the one that's already been on the market for awhile.

I've got horrible problems with halo effects with my Panasonic camcorder in snow and water scenes. It looks like a kid has drawn a white line around people, ski poles etc.

Leo's Cameras told me that many small time movie producers still use 16 mm film for snow scenes because of such problems which are very common especially with camcorders costing less than US$2500. They looked at the halo effect from my camcorder and said, yes, completely normal on cheaper camcorders. My camcorder listed for US$1700.

But it appears that the halo effect is caused largely by over sharpening processing in the camcorder and smaller chips. The camcorder you choose should have a manual sharpening adjustment for starters. Ideally find out which of these cameras produces less halo effect for your kind of work.

The Sony VX2000 (maybe VX2100 too) appears to produce little halo effect. Any camcorder smaller than this in my limited experience will not produce good commercial results. What is the point of having a smaller camcorder when the results look completely amateur.

Sharpening can be controlled on the trv950. Also, larger chips can only help in more challenging contrast situations, which the 950 has when compared with these smaller Pana 3ccd cams.

a little clarification
 

Thanks for your input so far.

I wanted to clear up one thing, i will not be using the camera i buy to be doing professional shots with. It would be nice if they were close to professional, but i don't have the money to spend. Again the camera will mostly be used for taping skiing (water, snow).

I guess i should have asked this question first. For a budget of 900-1000, what is the best camcorder to consider? From what i have heard/read, PV953 and sony TRV 950 were at the top. Do others have ideas/suggestions?

Also could someone explain to me what the halo effect is?

Thanks again.

Mark

Not too sure in the 1lb dept. but I do know that sony has a few on those handheld palm cameras that are pretty light.

Choosing a camera
 

First off, this is going to be my first venture into video production.

The primary use of the camera is going to be documenting professional car restorations. There will be a lot of detail shots of engine work, slow pans over car bodies and interiors, a few computer screens, welding and metal grinding, etc.

I want to try and keep the distraction level low so minimal cables, lights (everything shines), buzzing equipment and head bonking.

It's all ends up, hopefully lookin' good, on DVD and television.

Right now I'm considering the XL1S, GL2 or VX100A. So roughly 5 grand to spend. Which would you choose?

Thanks for reading this! Looking forward to any replies.

Hi Jeremy and welcome aboard. By themselves, none of these cameras involve a lot of cables, lights, buzzing equipment or head bonking :-) Of course you may want to use external mikes and lights, but that would have a lot to do with what you're trying to accomplish.

The XL-1s and DVX-100a are in the $3,000 ballpark while the GL-2 is closer to $2,000 and has smaller chips. To further complicate your choice you might consider the DVC-30, VX-2100 and PDX-10 which would be in the $2,000 category and the PD-170 in the $,3000 range.

This is a broad topic, and a question that is frequently asked around here. Spend a little time browsing through our forums on each of these cameras and you will start to form some opinions of your own.

Of course you will want more than just the camera itself; tripods, extra batteries, lenses, filters, audio gear, lights, carrying cases, etc. can easily bring your cost above $5,000. Do you have a computer and software robust enough to edit your video? That could be another big expense. Be sure to keep this all in mind as you shop and draw up a realistic budget.

There is a lot of speculation that an XL-1s replacement is imminent and a $500 rebate just expired, so now may not the best time to buy one.

I would probably stay in the 1/3" chip category of cams. They will give you more latitude in varying light conditions.

Do you suppose you'll be relying on intense closeups (hands working, etc)? You're trying to stay out of people's way, so maybe a long zoom is desirable, for serious detail shots, from a distance? If this is so, a good tripod and head is definitely in your immediate future.

The DVX100a has excellent audio, tons of manual control, and a fairly wide lense, but a short zoom, and, if you've never handled a video camera before, a rather high learning curve. If I were to shoot, say, a car commercial, and had only $5k to spend on a camera package, this is the first camera to come to mind. As it is, I happily already own and shoot with a PD170, and could certainly turn out a worthy product with it. Both of these cams come ready with XLR audio inputs, so no need for an adaptor and messing around with minijacks. The XL1S gives you lense options, but will cost a great deal more after all is said and bought, at least $5k, never mind essential accessories. That 16x zoom lense would be nice, but do you really need it, for what you want to do? Likewise with the WA lense. Things to think about. The DVX seems like it has more spice, in the way of beautifying a product-like shoot, between the variable frame rates and the cinegamma functions, a truly manual, if fixed, lense, the menu presets, and so on. And, hey, I'm practically Mr Sony himself, so it's not like I'm talking up my own camera to make myself feel good! :-) Anyway, these are my thoughts.

The DVC30 is another thought. It's new, with not very much user feedback on the boards as of yet, but has a long zoom, good manual controls, 30p and cinegamma jazz, and a native XLR option. It's chips are 1/4", which isn't bad.

And, finally, I'll put in a good word on a favorite little cam of mine, the PDX10.
Superb 16:9, if you decide to go that route, and very good audio, but it will ask you to set up lots of lights more often than probably any of these other cameras, with it's highly pixelated, practically 1/5" chips. It also has the least image control of all of these cams, but, given enough light, everything else is a mere workaround, and excellent stuff can be produced with this sexy little beast.

Ok, I think I'm finished.
Good luck!

S.

I think you might wanna go for a Sony camera such as the PD170 because Sony DV cams are usually much sharper than say Canons. It sounds like you are filming technical things that require extra sharpness and clarity. The PD170 is a wonderful, solid camera with lots of flexibility. And yes, I have used all the cameras you mentioned wanting to purchase. So I am not giving you a biased opinion at all(I own the XL-1s myself).

For the money you have to spend, I would say in the 1/3" chip size. But it's important to think of all the things you may need for your shooting.

You should carefully consider all the accessories which help make up a pretty picture (and sound). They can easily add up to more than the camera itself. Give careful thought to your sound needs as well as camera support such as tripod.

Will you need a matte box? Maybe not but a polorizer is a good tool for car shoots. So figure that as well.

I would start to look at all these accessories first and see how much you have left for a good camera body and lens.

Adding lighting will really improve the video quality you get. If you compare good product photography to bad product photography, lighting makes the biggest difference of all. If making the final product look good is important then I recommend you look into renting lighting gear and hiring a DOP [director of photography] (or getting film/photography students to do it for free).

Whoever is doing the lighting needs some experience in making sure the highlights are just right. You could try looking at car commercials to see how good lighting makes a difference. This will make a lot more difference than what camera you shoot with (unless it's a consumer 1CCD camera, which tend to images that kind of look flat).

Color correction/grading can also help your shots look good.

Shooting on film can also make your footage look better, although it's quite expensive. Reasons for going with film:
A- There are a lot of good DOPs who know how to deal with film. If your DOP does not know how to shoot good video then it can easily look bad.
B- Film has much greater exposure latitude than the ~3k cameras you are looking at. This means shadows don't disappear into black mush and highlights don't blow out. If you shoot on video, you need to light carefully.
C- With DV, there are color shifts as highlights approach clipping. Usually you will see cyan or magenta fringes on highlights.
D- Film has a nice "s" gamma curve and colors get more saturated for darker colors. You may be able to duplicate this in post.

Caveats:
-Film shoots usually have more money than video shoots. More money is spent on production, the DOP, lighting gear, color correction, etc. etc.

For examples of video that looks just as good as film, check out
http://www.lafcpug.org/review_dvx_pd150.html
However, there are some things to watch out for.
A- The DOP is David Mullen, who is a member of the American Society of Cinematographers.
B- Your computer monitor probably does not give accurate reproduction of colors, especially if it is not calibrated.
C- "In order to reap the benefits of the DVX100, you need an excellent cinematographer who understands how to light and compose. You also need the time and talented crew to achieve high production value down the line."

If you want good slow pans then you will need a decent tripod. I think a decent one runs about $800USD. I've only used crappy tripods so I can only tell you that cheap tripods suck for camera moves.

If you want to get fancy then you can do dolly or steadicam shots, but they require more money.

If they are CRTs then they will flicker. Try to shoot LCDs if you can. If not, look for a camera that have shutter speeds that match CRTs. I forgot which cameras have these. With CRTs you can set the refresh rate to 60hz to get less flicker, but you'd still have to deal with CRTs' imperfect geometry (curved at the corners).

An alternative is to use screen capture utilities on the computer.

The main difference that I notice in those DVX/PD comparison clips is the DVX footage staying warm and nice on the girl's face while the PD seems to clip. Is that an S curve thing or what?

Well for 5 grand, I would personally choose GL2. With rest of money you can buy everything you may ever need, even a low cow-cost minijib, which will get that aaaaa from customer.

Lots of excellent replies here Jeremy with some good solid advice. But if you've seriously discounted the PD170 (and I assume you have because you're posting on the VX/PD site and don't have it in your line-up) then any one of the three cameras you list will give you staggeringly good results. They all come with the list of pros and cons, but the main thing is to get to know the beast, that way you'll wring the very best out of it that it's capable of giving.

The man with the GL2 who knows his stuff will get far better footage that the newbie with both the XL1s and the DVX100A - of that you can be 100% sure. It's knowing what you have that counts. The cost of the equipment is not the concern; the man in the BMW always gives way to the man pushing the full supermarket trolley across the parking lot.

tom.

I'm not sure really. The DVX100 does have an adjustable gamma curve, one of which is kind of like an s curve. The DVX100 also seems to have greater exposure latitude than the PD150 according to adam wilt's review of it over at dv.com.

http://www.dv.com/features/features_.../2003/wilt0203 (registration required)

Anyways I think the important things to note are:
1- The DVX100 looks better in this test.
2- You can add a s curve in post to make footage look better. It shouldn't matter which camera's footage you do this on.

Are there any good apps or FCP plugins for making 'film like' changes to S curves? (the same as altering the gamma?) Or is this part of what Magic Bullet etc. do?

(getting off topic)
 

FCP4 might have a curves filter in it. For FCP3 and before, you will need a 3rd party plug-in. I believe CHV may have released a free curves plug-in but I don't know about that anymore.

Anyways once you have the curves plug-in you just make the curve look like an s.

In FCP3 and above, you can use the 3-way CC to boost saturation. Use the secondary CC part of it to boost saturation to shadows more than midtones. You could apply another to completely knock off saturation on highlights if you like that look.

2- I'm not sure exactly what exactly Magic Bullet does, but it does do a few of these things. Some other things it does:
A- Renders in 10 or 16-bit (I forget which) to reduce rounding error on color correction. To see rounding error in action, apply 2 filters to a clip that does opposite things (i.e. boost and lower luminance). You should banding occur on gradients.

In FCP4, use the high definition rendering mode to get the same results. This mode uses 32-bit floating point numbers for processing, so there is insignificant rounding error.

Magic Bullet may also highlight or chroma glow. For FCP I believe you can buy plug-ins that do this. Your NLE of choice may have plug-ins that also do this. Without any special plug-ins, you can try the following:
Duplicate the video track onto itself.
With a lumakey or secondary CC, you can:reduce the alpha/transparency on everything except for highlights. Add your favorite blur to the top layer. Guassian blur, any blur faster than gaussian blur, circular blur, zoom blur, etc. etc.

Thanks Glenn. I couldn't see anything obvious in FCP 4, but it may be there. I don't yet have enough experience with it to tell. I'll look further into this and the other options.

FCP 4 has no curves controls. Nattress filters makes a plugin for FCP that controls curves though. It's cheap.

Thanks Dave - I'll try the demos of Film Effects and DVFilm Maker and see how the compare against each other, and against Joe's Filters (which I already bought).

Re: Choosing a camera
 

"There will be a lot of detail shots of engine work, slow pans over car bodies and interiors"

Slow pans over car interiors sounds like you need a wide angle lens so that you can get a wide enough angle of view inside a car. Try before you buy. A wide angle conversion lens is not as good a choise as a natively wide angled lens (such as the Canon XL lenses).

Is this "engine work" beeing filmed from close distance and at 45 degrees (or so) vertical angle (from above)? You might need a wide angle lens unless you can back away enough (and climb)...

As a novice who has done a few short instructional/promotional vids, I second Glen's point about lighting - I started out thinking that it was key to have one camera or another, but it isn't so. Any of the cameras mentioned is capable of doing a fine job, but none of them can overcome poor lighting, at least not if you want the results to look professional.

Ditto audio. If there's going to be any live audio (or even voice-overs), spend money on proper microphones and accessories. It's often said that good sound is more important than good video, and I've found that to be true.

Ditto tripods. If the camera's going to be moving, or you'll be outside in the wind, spend money on a sturdy tripod with smooth action.

Just some input from someone who has been down the same road.

New Camcorder (buying)
 

Looking to buy new camcorder, JVC 700 or Sony 570 both 16.9 native, both 2/3 CCDs. Has any body had a chance to use either one?? And which tape is better mini or dvcam larger??

Even i am eager to understand the simiplar topic...cox I hve DVC200 from Panny and am plnning a buy for JVCGYDV-5000E.

I look forward to users bits...

low end camera suggestions
 

My father is looking to purchase a video camera in the $500-$700us range. Does anyone know the best of the best in this price range? Are there any new 3CCD cameras available in that range?

The Panasonic PV GS120 can be had in that price range. Is he in Canada? If so, make certain to buy from an authorized Canadian dealer, since he will not have any warranty at all with products brought into Canada from the US.

Thanks Bill
That looks like it should fit his needs perfectly.

Check out an Optura 300- they produce beautiful video for $729 (BH)

Help in choosing a new Camcorder
 

In want to get more seriously into DV mainly for making promotional videos for various businesses I am involved in. About 2 years ago I bought a cheap JVC model a GR-DVL 157E to get started. This has given surprisingly good images but it is time to move on. I have been looking at the Canon MX2, the XL1S, Sony PD10 and a host of other prosumer models. With few exceptions all of the videos will be shot outside and some when I am out sailing. The dampness causes problems for the JVC as it switches on a condensation compensation circuit which flattens the battery and renders the camera useless until I take it home. Having read lots of reviews I am leaning towards the Canon MX2. I am quite prepared to spend the £1600 or possibly more but I don't want to end up wishing either I had spent more money and got a better camera or much less money and got something that was smaller and gave almost as good image quality. How will the MX2 handle being used at sea? Will dampness or salt spray be a problem? Opinions and advice would be gratefully received.

I am not positive, but I think almost all camcorder now have condensation monitoring, and will turn off when internal humidity is too high. You could definitely correct for this by getting an underwater housing for whichever cam you buy, but they are clunky, make adjustments more difficult, and are pricey. They are completely water proof, though, and you could take them on dives (up to the housing's depth rating).

You might also try a simple high-end rain guard. I'm not sure if that would knock out enough internal humidity to keep the cam on though.

You might want to check out the upcoming PV-GS400/NV-GS400. It's at the lower end of the prosumer models in price (street will be US $1,350 pretty quickly), but has tons of manual control.

...as for the rain guard/underwater housing, I don't know of any companies off the top of my head, but a quick Googling should get you started.

Assuming you mean PDX-10 instead of PD10? Also maybe XM-2 (like GL-2) instead of MX2?

The PDX-10 is a nice little camera and it's greatest strength is high quality 16:9; is that something you need? It would be better than the XL-1s or GL-2 if you want to shoot widescreen. It's also smaller than either of those (MUCH smaller than the XL-1s), especially if you remove the XLR block and mike. But if you don't particularly care about widescreen you could make a good case for your other choices.

Other advantages of the PDX-10 are its DVCAM recording mode, high res black and white viewfinder, large high res LCD screen and pro audio features. In the US it's considerably less expensive than the XL-1s and roughly comparable in price to the GL-2. The Sony VX-2100 would also have a price in the same general ballpark. Is there a reason it isn't on your short list?

The PDX-10 needs more light than some camcorders, but it sounds like that might not be a problem for you. Visit our forum for in depth discussion. I know a number of people use the PDX-10 or it's consumer cousin, the TRV-950 (just discontinued and replaced by the HC-1000) for underwater work specifically because they fit into enclosures they like. But those things ain't cheap! Talking a quick look at B&H they range from around $2,800 up to about $7,700! Sort of makes you view the camera as an "accessory" to use with the case...

Many thanks Jesse and Boyd for your helpful suggestions. Sorry about the confusion over model numbers. I have seen quite a lot of footage shot on various round the world yacht races like the Vendee Globe or the Volvo Ocean race. I wonder what cameras they used? Any idea?

My yacht is pretty dry except when shooting the occasional shot of the bow crashing into the waves, so, I don't really need total waterproofing, just the ability to cope with dampness. I wonder whether a much smaller camera like a Sony DCRPC330 or the larger Canon MVX3i at the bottom end of the prosumer market, might be worth considering. Would the video quality from such camcorders be noticeably poorer that the models you suggested?