Hey guys, I need to learn cinematography and make short films. I've been using an HV30 with a 30mm adapter and am now looking to upgrade to an XH A1, mainly because it's just within my budget, is also a Canon, and seems to be liked by a lot of people. Is this the cam for me if I'm basically looking to learn the manual controls and practice making films?

The XH-A1 is the biz, and will do all that and more. It also has a specification that belies its price and the camera allows you to play and learn all the disciplines - focal length, focus, aperture, gain, shutter speed, audio levels white balance, ND filtration, dof and countless menu-driven setups.

I'm pretty sure the next Canon can't be far off. It'll most probably be SD card and not tape, but it won't teach you anything more than the XH will.

tom.

Cheapest "best" HD camera with HD-SDI connector output
 

Hey all,

I am inches away from picking up the Canon HF S100 camera to use it's HDMI output and really good HD quality.. connected to initially a small "semi portable" Shuttle recording box with RAID HDs and the Intensity HDMI card. If I can swing it... I want to get the nanoFlash setup going. so I can have a portable HDMI uncompressed (almost) rig going for an affordable price.

However my fear is the HDMI plug is easily pulled out of the camera... so I am eager to discover a camera with the HD-SDI locking plug as the nanoFlash and the Intensity card both support that as well, but is not hopefully too much more in price and offers as good an HD picture.. if not better than the canon does. I primarily want to use this to shoot stock video and weddings and events, not movies. It would be nice to have a camera with some sort of XLR like audio input and a mount for a boom mic as well for weddings/events. The most important thing is the HD-SDI output with locking plug, good optics and as low a price as possible. I am on a very tight budget (hence building a Shuttle computer with Intensity over buying the nanoFlash.. although it will limit my mobility unless I can find some sort of battery pack that can power the computer).

Thank you.

re: deciding on what to by
 

Jay,

I wish I had your budget! For $4K, if you're looking at a video camera.. after tons of reading.. I'd honestly opt for the Canon S100 and the nanoFlash unit. The nanoFlash is about $3K, plus you'll need a couple of 32GB flash cards..if not more. The Canon has an 8.59MP CMOS 1/2.6" censor on it, and using the HDMI port directly into the nanoFlash, you get near uncompressed video and audio. There are a couple posts on the net that show the Canon S10 (the same camera, $200 more but comes with 32GB internal flash ram.. if you're going to get the nanoFlash..no reason to waste $200 on internal flash memory) with the nanoFlash and it is stunning to say the least! If I had about 5K to spend (including extra batteries, case, flash cards) this is the way I would go right now. The image quality is stunning and you can edit the files quite easily in most editors. I say most because in talking with them recently they indicate that on windows, there are some bugs still for premiere pro.. that should be worked out within a month or so. I imagine you can convert the files.. or get CineForm and use their HDLink to convert to CineForm directly and use those, which do work in Premiere.

Two issues have me looking (and I just asked a short while ago on this thread) about perhaps a slightly more professional camera. The lens/optics.. although it is very good on the canon.. being able to have the manual option like on the XH-A1 and such would be nice.. and having an HD-SDI locking connector would be better than the mini-HDMI on the S100/10 so that the cord doesn't get pulled out while you're recording..which could be easy to do.

There is one other issue which I haven't worked out.. power supply for the nanoFlash. On more professional cameras it looks like they could power the nanoFlash. I am not sure otherwise..but I'll cross that bridge when I have that kind of budget. Then again..if I have a 4K or so budget, I am looking at the Red Scarlet camera. Be a bit more than 4K with a few batteries and flash cards and such..but man that is an incredible beast!

Dear Kevin,

We do not have it ready yet, but we expect to offer a small battery that will power the nanoFlash for over 3 hours.

(I am the Director of Sales and Marketing at Convergent Design, the makers of the nanoFlash and Flash XDR.)

Hi Dan,

That is nice.. any idea when it will be ready and what it will cost, and will it be a replaceable battery pack so I can have some extras ready or have to buy complete packs?

Dear Kevin,

It will be a small battery pack with two Lithium-Ion cells, with a cable and connector for the nanoFlash. The individual cells are not user replaceable, just replace the entire battery.

It is too early to tell the exact pricing. We expect about $100 for one battery and one charger.

In our tests, it powers the nanoFlash for 3.5 hours.

No worries on the HDMI cable; just use a locking cable such as PPC's Locking HDMI cable (buy via PPC or see the overview at Review: PPC locking HDMI cable).

The single least expensive, most affordable camcorder with HD-SDI is the Canon XH G1S (or the earlier version, the XH G1). It retails for $7,000 but the earlier G1 might be found at used prices for less than that. $7,000 is quite a bit more than the cost of an HF S100, but it is still the lowest cost for getting into HD-SDI. In my opinion, your bank account will be much better off if you opt for the HF S100 and a locking HDMI cable. Hope this helps,

Man.. $7K? That can't be.. I mean I know you can get it for a lot less.. but all the canon/sony HD cameras in the 3K+ range don't have HD-SDI? I'll have to look again but I thought there was a $2K or so camera with HD-SDI... maybe it was HDMI.

Even so.. at that price, the RED Scarlet shows a current retail price of $3700 for the fixed lens, and $2500 for the brain alone for the replaceable lens setup. Their parts are very expensive.. $150 for a handle..holy crapolas.. but still, I would guess for 6K or so you could get a lens, battery, flash container and 4 flash cards and a handle or two for that price.. or close to it.

Sorry but you are mistaken. Actually, *none* of the video cameras from any manufacturer in the $3,000 to $6,000 range have HD-SDI output. Instead they will have Component video, FireWire or HDMI output. Sometimes a combination of all three. And, no there is no such thing as a $2,000 camera with HD-SDI.

Just a few years ago, prior to 2005, you'd have to spend upwards of $20,000 to get a video camera with HD-SDI. In Sept. 2005, Canon released the XL H1, which was the very first sub-$10K video camera with HD-SDI output (although it was not quite full spec; it did not carry audio over SDI). A year later Canon released the XH G1 for $7,000, which was the SDI version of the XH A1, released at the same time. Its replacement, the XH G1S, also priced at $7,000, is currently the single least expensive video camera equipped with HD-SDI output. The H1 was replaced by the XL H1S, same price as before (around $9,000) but its SDI output is now full specification (audio, TimeCode, etc.). Hope that helps.

Chris, isn't the Sony EX1 about $1000 cheaper than the XH-G1s...?

How about that. I stand corrected -- it is the Sony PMW-EX1 then, at $6100, as the least expensive video camera with HD-SDI output. Thanks Chas,

Here's one for $4,299 ( after rebate and e-mail price quote)
Panasonic AG-HPX170

Panasonic | AG-HPX170 P2HD Solid-State Camcorder | AG-HPX170


Input and Output Connectors
Component Video: Video Terminal (x1 Output)
Composite Video: RCA (x1 Output)
HD/SD-SDI: BNC (x1 Output)
Analog Audio L/R: 3-Pin XLR (x2 Input)
Line: Pin-Jack (x1 Output)
FireWire: 6-Pin Locking
USB 2.0: MiniB
Camera Remote: 2.5mm Super Mini (Zoom), 3.5mm Mini (Focus/Iris)

Yes, the Panasonic AG-HPX170 has HD SDI. I recently purchased this camera and it's really great. Especially now that the P2 cards came down in price.

Allen

I'm totally new to this arena. I have a web design and hosting business and have decided to start doing web video and some TV advertising. I read a lot of posts and talked to a few people and decided to get the Canon HF-S10. I was really leaning towards the CANON HV40 but I didn't want to deal with tapes. I felt that tape was outdated technology plus Ive heard mixed reviews about tape noise. I was also leaning towards the Canon GL2 but I was told it was about a 7yr old camera and that the newer cameras with newer technology were better (the S10 being one of them). I'm not sure if that is the absolute truth or not but dropping $2k on 7yr old camera technology didn't seem wise. I bought a Canon HF-S10 package deal for $1729 (I hope it was a good deal):

Canon S10
Soft Case
32GB Memory Card
Tiffen Grounder Tripod
2 - 5 hour batteries
2 - Crystal Optics Telephoto Lens (2x and wide angle)
2 - External chargers (each have wall outlet and car outlet)
Lens Filters
Screen protectors
Cleaning kit
and some cheap table tripod that I can use on some other camera

Camera for school
 

Hello fellow DVinfo.net posters. My name is Jeffrey, first and foremost, I apologize for my horrible grammar and punctuation. Also I am a newbie in terms of learning how to use the camera the right way.

I have been reading you forum for the past 3 weeks to do research on the right camera for my school in Korea. I am a teacher and we will be starting a pre-recorded English news station. The students are very excited because they will learn English as well as learning how to use the camera. I have no idea how to use the camera but I'm going to get some training videos, reading a lot of your posts/topics to get me through this.

Well, here is the situation, the school has a bit of a tight budget (3,000) and we want to get a prosumer camera. Students will be able to learn how to use the camera, edit videos and learn how to speak English. Once we edit the video, we will show it to the whole school. Yes, every classroom has a 60inch screen TV. Gotta love Korea!

What will we be doing? We will have a pre-recorded English news station. I am hoping to get a chroma key for some nice background effects and so on. Is a green muslin chroma key okay for doing weather reports? As in, it will show a map of Korea and they will do the weather reports.

80% of the time we will be indoors, using an empty classroom to turn into a low budget studio. For outdoors, it will be something small, like a student showing the school how to throw an American football or doing some reporting outside of a concert hall. So we don't really need to be outside for anything unless we have to.

I was thinking of a Canon XL2 or Canon XH-A1. On ebay, there is a Canon XL2, Firestone HD,7 inch TV and other goodies for 2,8000.

What do you guys think? Should I get a cheaper camera? Or these choices are fine?

Unfortunately I only have until Monday morning to order something because I am heading back to korea next sunday and I need to make sure I get the item on Friday. I wish I could respond earlier but I had to wait for validation from DVinfo.

Well, thanks for your help and anything you want me to get I will definitely try to get it. I am convince if the principal see these amazing studdents creating their own English channel, he will definitely put in A LOT of money into the studio.

For a classroom of students I'd opt for the XH-A1 every time. The XL series was really built around the notion that interchangeable lenses were becoming the in-thing, but it hasn't panned out that way at this price point.

The A1 will offer you 16:9 HDV as a huge boost when you come to fill that 60" screen, it's a much more loved camera than the XL series (whose form-factor takes quite some getting used to).

tom.

I'm a film making student looking to by my own camera. I dont have all the money I'll need yet, but maybe in a few months I'll be able to buy a camera. I'd rather not spend more than $2,500 for it so I'll most likely find one slightly used on Ebay. I'm looking around to get some ideas on what I want for now though. I've been looking at the Canon XH A1 and that seems to do everything I want it to do which is mostly to shoot in HD, has XLR input and manual lens controls.

The only thing I dont really like is it shoots to tape. I would like to have one that will shoot to an SD or compact flash card just so I can have all the clips broken up and not have to manually do that while editing. Is there a similar camera for around the same price that will shoot to a non-proprietary flash card or hard drive? Or will it just be cheaper to stick with tape?

If I do get the XH A1, would there be any good time to buy one? Like is Canon going to release a new model soon causing the price to drop on it or have people trying to sell it so they can get the newer model?

I got my XH-A1 last year and I love it. I got mine of Craigs list. I had the same problem when trying to choose a camera when it comes to the format. But I still like the whole tape thing because I will always have a copy no matter what. I would hate to shoot something and loose it.

My friend has a regular camera that shoots hd onto the drive. It is so nice how he can just hook it up and in just under a minute it is uploaded to the computer. No play back or nothing.

Steve, if you capture with Vegas (and probably some other NLEs as well) or use HDVSplit, the clips will automatically be broken up. I just captured 18 minutes of footage, which Vegas broke into 170-something individual clips (which makes my job a lot easier, because I just watch it while it's capturing and note the numbers of the clips I want to save, and then delete everything else).

Go with the A1.Great versatile camera. I have an H1, two a1's ( just picked up my 2nd a1 for under 2k!!) and an HV30. Tape is still cheap and virtually foolproof. Down the road, it would be nice to have a tapeless iption, but for long events, it deosn't make sense yet.
Bruce Yarock
Yarock Video and Photo

Bruce, where did you pick up an A1 for less than 2k? All the XH A1 cameras I've seen on ebay are going for around $2,500 at the cheapest.

Chris, I edit on final cut pro. I never thought about looking for a way to have it auto break up the footage as it captures. I'm not sure if final cut offers that or not, but I'll play around with it and see if it does.


I still love tape, I just hate how I spend half the editing process just capturing and breaking up the footage.

If you aren't going to be making a purchase for a few months, I'd suggest keeping an eye on how the HMC40 fares, once we start getting significant feedback from early adopters.

Thanks for the suggestion on the HMC40, I didnt even know about that. I've been reading about it for the past hour or so and I'm starting to really like it. Its within my price range at around $2,000 on B&H. I'm going to start making a 10 minute short film in about a month (first film I've ever directed) and if I can get that in a few weeks I'll be ecstatic. Only problem is at $2,000 for the camera alone, that will leave me pretty much broke.

That camera also only has 3 1/4" CMOS chips. I'm used to shooting with SD cameras that use 3 1/3" CCD chips. How would the three 1/4" CMOS (in HD) chips compare to 1/3" CCD chips? For a student thats still learning and on a tight budget would there be any noticeable difference? I've looked around a little and it seems like the only real difference would be with low-light situations and I dont really plan on doing anything in low light.

A good question Steven. There's the obvious answer that as 1"/3 chips have a 78% greater surface area than ¼" chips they'll be better when light levels drop, and this is especially marked if you've come from the big pixels on a PD170 SD CCD (say) to the very tiny HD pixels on a ¼" chip.

But CMOS are better in low light than CCD (size for size) and modern amplifiers are far less noisy, so you might tolerate +15dB of gain up in the new camera where +6dB was looking grainy on the old one.

But the biggest difference (for me) is the dof issue. Cameras with tiny ¼" chips really struggle to include differential focus shots, and it's this 'all in focus' look that yells video pretty loudly.

If you took a poll on this site and asked if anyone who'd got a camcorder would ever consider buying another one with smaller chips than they have at present, I'm betting 90% would give that a thumbs down.

tom.

Steven,
It was a freak situation. A college kid had it on craigslist, sking 2k. I got in my car and raced over there (1 1/2 haors away). It's great for the multicam shoots, becayse now i have 3 cameras with the same exact look, plus the hv30 for a lockdown. rhe other thing I'm thinking of doing is leaving my letus extreme on one of the a1's, always ready to use.
I also have a super clean Siny FX1, which is a great camera. I recently had the tape transport mechanism replaced, which , makes it good to go for quite a while. If you're interested, pm me.
bruce yarock
yarock at a o l dot c o m

Camera recommendation?
 

Hi,
I currently have a Canon XH-A1 which I like a lot; I have a project coming up soon and I have the opportunity to get a new camera.
I'll be filming falcons hunting (where falcons fly after birds in the wild), so I need a camera that is fast, that can zoom to pretty extreme length, is somewhat durable/reliable, supports SD/CF and can zoom a long distance (16x zoom or higher I would say).

I find the XH-A1 ideal because it goes to the 35mm equiv of 600mm; It would be the perfect camera except that it is not solid state (SD card/CF card). The HDV tapes are a bit of a nightmare in my opinion.

Also ideally a camera which is of a similar size to the XH-A1 or smaller.

Thanks for any suggestions,
Sam

Remember, the zoom ratio (the "x" factor, if you will) is largely meaningless unless you know where the lens starts and ends.

The Sony V1/FX7 goes to a 35mm equivalent of about 750mm and is a bit smaller in form factor than the XH-A1, even though the zoom ratio is the same 20x. The FX1000 is also 20x, but starts wider and ends wider. But obviously both are still tape (although you could put the MRC CF recording unit on either, just as you could with the A1).

FWIW.

Tom, thanks for that information. I'm not sure I want the HMC40 now. I want a camera that will last a few years and will work great in many situations. Since I'm a student I dont have the funds to keep upgrading my camera every year or two. I think I may save up for the HMC150 now since it has the bigger chips and uses CCD vs the CMOS the HMC40. I'll keep researching it and see if I will be fine with the HMC40 though.

Also, if I do get the HMC40, I'll defiantly get the XLR adapter for it which I think costs $350 or around there. With the average price of the camera being $2,000 the total cost for it would be around $2,350. I've seen the HMC150 for around $2,800 used. thats only around a $450-$500 difference.

Can u help me choose a camera?
 

I want to buy a camera.
1. I can budget ab 6000 $ for the whole kit
2. I'd like to make documentaries, shorts. Maybe for film festivals in the future.
3. It's my first camera

I can't speak for anyone else here, but for me shallow depth of field is more of a minus than a plus. I'm not trying to imitate film - I'm shooting video with no apologies. I'm generally much more interested in capturing real life, as realistically as possible - not altering it for artistic purposes. Basically, I want my video to bring the viewer right there, as if they were looking through a (perfectly clear) window in person, for the experience to be as close to having actually been there as possible (an art, in and of itself, when you stop and think about it).

I like the deeper depth of field from smaller sensors. It (usually) looks more realistic, and also makes focusing much easier (a big plus when shooting real life events as they happen, where there are no second takes). Of course, the downside is less sensitivity in less than ideal lighting.

Aside from low light issues, I absolutely love the HMC40 (and it's not really as bad in less than ideal lighting as I think a lot of folks make it out to be - gain is surprising clean, which makes a real world difference). The images are sharp as a tack. You really have to spend quite a bit more to get the ability of acquiring sharper images (think EX1 at least). Focus is easy compared to 1/3" chip cameras. It also shoots 720p60 (and every other common HD flavor), which is fantastic for capturing real life in motion (nice and smooth, like reality, without the judder of lower common framerates - also great for slo-mo).

I would like to see one of the major camcorder manufacturers come out with an (affordable - at least under $4K) AVCHD camcorder, using 3-1/3" imaging chips, with the same resolution offered by the HMC40, for the ability to shoot tack sharp images in dimmer lighting though. I'm really hoping Canon will come out with something like that real soon (fingers crossed).

First big camcorder advice for student :)
 

Firstly, happy new year to everyone.

I'm a student looking to go into freelance work after university, and just got a bonus of £1500. So I thought I'd spend that money on a cam instead of kebabs. I'm UK based, so it must be a PAL camera, and 2nd hand is a good idea because I'm poor.

I'm looking at low end prosumer. Preferably HD, unless you guys can convince me why a good SD camera is a good idea?
The Sony FX7 is perfect but really rare to find 2nd hand for some reason?! FX1 is a bit out of my price range.
Was looking at the Panasonic HMC40, can be found at £1200 new. I know some may scoff and say...'why not just get the HMC150', but again, out of my range.
I was looking at an XL1s...damn cheap used. Only SD I know, but is the quality and price comparable enough to make it a good choice?

Also, looking at buying a 35mm adapter in the future...probably a twoneil or similar. Will the XL1s take a twoneil, or does it require another adapter? Also, If you change the lens on an XL1 to a manual zoom lens, in theory you'd get more depth of field right? Without an adapter?

Anyway, thanks for your help guys, I'm freely open to any suggestions, so start suggesting

:)

camcorder help
 

I’m planning to get a HD camcorder(1080p) and I need advice. But going through this forum I am very confused on which camcorder to get (HF200, hv40, HDR-XR500, hv30 and t2i).I saw some people said t2i is good if you are recording and taking pictures. But the problem I have with it is that I need something I can walk, run and hold one hand with like the hv40 camcorders. I have a budget of under $1,200 but if I have to buy t2i I don’t mind spending money little more.

I’m looking for:
- Camcorder that records good in low light, DOF and in the night
- Easy to carry, walk and run with if you are recording.
- Has good zoom(10x+)

Please help me

Dear Ali,

Take a look at the Canon HFs10, HFs11, or the soon to be shipping HFs21.

These may fit your needs.

Or the current XR500, CX500, or soon to be released XR550 and CX550 - particularly for low light quality and OIS (optical image stabilization, since you mention shooting handheld while moving), these may beat the Canon.

Be aware that the new Sonys have a much wider wide end of the lens range, so you may have to consider how much zoom you use/need.

I need a camcorder
 

I am looking for a camcorder for home use. Here are the things I would like:

1. I have a 1080 plasma HD tv and would like the camera to have HD capabilities.
2. I want to record to SD cards
3. I would like the option to record in 24p and 30p
4. I would like the biggest cmos sensor possible
5. I would like to spend $500 or less

Please let me know if anyone has a recommendation for this. Thank you.

which camera should I use?
 

Used a sony pd 150 on my last 88 feature, but my son lost it. So, next project is in August. Looking for:

1. auto focus
2. true 24p
3. true 16.9
4. want to shoot on mini dv

What camera does anyone suggest?

Please email me: firefighter Tim Andrew at: pilotfire@sbcglobal.net

School camera
 

We are in the progress to buy a new camera for our school. Because we are a city funded art school (secundairie education / high school) we are limited in budget and subject to numerous rules.

At the moment we are looking serous at the Canon XH A1s (pal version), I only read about good experiences with this camera and at 3500 Euro it would just fit our budget, maybe stretch it a bit but possible. If there are camera's at the same price-quality range you can recommend, I would like to hear about them.

Besides the manual options for the audio visual classes, we would like a good performance in low light to record theatre and dance productions and maybe some concerts.

On a low budget, I'd start to think about DSLRs.

Luka,

I have upgraded from a Sony V1E (pretty similar to the Canon XH A1 in size) to a Panasonic HMC41E.

For GBP 2000 (before VAT) you can get the camera with XLR adapter (so you can use proper professional mics). It offers a good balance between size and function - it has a lot of manual control. It is also smaller, and shoots to SDHC cards. Or you can save money and not get the XLR adapter, it's around 1800 GBP that way.

I can't compare to the Canon XHA1, but the picture quality is better than my V1E was, at least in good light. But then I'm an outdoors shooter, so light isn't a problem.

Of course there are compromises on a smaller camera (only one combined zoom/focus ring and no direct user-controlled ND filter, a 41mm-not-very-wide-angle-lens that only has 12x zoom) I'm still getting used to it, but I think it's well worth considering for students if you are set on a traditional video camera rather than D-SLR.

Of course you can find flaws when compared to (say) a Sony EX-1 or Z5, but come off it - they cost two grand more!