Hi Mike.

We are indeed looking for a traditional video camera instead of a d-slr.
I will look intro the Panasonic HMC41E

Thanks for the info
and feel free to suggest more models that compare well with the Canon XH A1s sprecs.

Luka,


Do not rule out a Sony fx 1000, it gives the same picture quality a a Z5 but a thousand less in expense.

HD is so focus dependant the quality of the lcd and the view finder make it a lot better than most cameras in its price range.

While I am a Canon camera buff, I did not buy the xha1 because of this particular issue. It produces an exceptional image.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/581316-REG/Sony_HDRFX1000_HDR_FX1000_Handycam_HDV_Camcorder.html
this shows how good they are in low light:

YouTube - Sony HDR-FX1000 / HVR-Z5 Low Light Test

do a little research, you might be surprised!!


Oh yea, if you need xlr connectivity then you can get a juice box for under 200 dollars!!! Or you can get a mini to xlr cord for 20 dollars.

Dale Guthormsen

Luka,

Just a thought on the HMC41E. There's an offer for current purcashes purchases in the UK that bundles it with a high capactiy IDX battery, training book by Barry Green, Edius editing software and a 16GB class 6 SDHC card. You can pick up the entire kit including XLR adapter for 2000GBP before tax.

Of course, there are other cameras - the FX1000 and others are superb if you can pay a few more Euros and the larger form factor can be an advantage. Dale is right to recommend it, it is a very good camera.

Depending on the students, something like the smaller Panasonic, with the advantage of SDHC card recording alone, may would be more suitable.

To be fair, I would point out that the LCD display is smaller than the FX1000 (but still pretty good, and I really like the waveform monitor feature for exposure), but the Viewfinder isn't a patch on the FX1000.

Hi Mike and Dale,

On off the numerous rules I most comply with to get city funds to buy the camera is that I'm limited to local shops (to support the local economy) and can not buy from the internet. Nevertheless, I can use internet prices as guidance / reference.

Will look into the Sony HVR-Z5U, Sony FX1000 and Panasonic HMC41E
The Z5 will be probably over budget, but the FX1000 has a chance, only I miss a proper XLR input and on the HMC41E haves the same problem (+ I can't find a good informative review on it)

There's something really traditional, it seems, about the Canon 5D Mark II. Check this out:

Canon 5D Mark II Shoots Season Finale of House | PhotographyBLOG

Check out your options - the best thing to do may be to buy a Mark II, and then maybe a lens for your stage performances. I am currently thinking of buying one myself, and they look incredibly powerful.

I hate Hollywood, but House is a respectable show on all levels - acting, writing, and production.

This is my first post, so please obliterate me if I am speaking garbage.

Hello community.

I learn't about this forum from a friend. He did say wherry nice things about you guys. :)

I want to ask you help in choosing a video camera.This purchase for me is wherry important .



Il list some of my preferences and needs to help you understand the kind of camera i am looking for.



My budget is around 300$ . It's not much, how ever it took me great deal of effort to gather this sum.


What i want to do with the camera is to use it for artistic purposes. LEts say, recreating some music video in my own fashion. Meaning that i put my own shots to the beat/music and try to make it dynamic and synchronized with the music. Filming many events in my country and putting them together will teach me and give me the taste of composition , how to make it flawless and interesting to watch .

I do believe that i will need wide angle lens right? W/o them the video looks narrow and doesn't look right if u want to make some kinda home made movie/sketch.

So would be nice if the camera would have this part covered and i wouldn't have to settle for a integrated lens.
A wile ago i was looking into KODAK ZI8 pocket camcorder YouTube - Kodak ZI8 HD Pocket Video Camcorder but i figured out that it would not suit my purpose of camera( its more of a blogging device as i see it , shooting rather still images). On it you can apply wide angle lens but its complicated in most cases and u have to glue them on some times. Some do fit on a magnet as i remember tho.

Another feature im looking for in the camera is that it films good in night. Aka, i might be doing some fast paced shoots in the streets of my town at night so i dont want it to show all the dark spots as 1 dark stain. I hope you know what i mean.

So basically im looking for a camera that is not for blogging or showing me talking to the camera for 5 mins . But i want it to have the artistic side , so i can venture with the clips and even tho the quality wont be near as good as for the cameras of price tag for 1000+$ i want to be able to use some of the effects from the high end Cams.



Sketches/Fast paced movement clips( me driving a bike and holding the camera capturing the events around me in a city or nature events.)


And i think its a must that the camera shoots in High Definition . Dont you think?But if i chose such Camcorder i sacrifice a lot of other good features by paying the general sum ust for the HD?





If i left out some vital info to this matter please point that out ill fill in the info .



I would wherry much appreciate your help and try not to look down upon.
I will read into the forum and try to figure some things out on my own , but i need the cam in somewhat near future so i cant absorb all the info in this forum and make a good decision. It will devastate me if il make a purchase and after 2 week's discover that there was a much better bargain of better camera which i didn't discover.

Gustavs -

Well, pretty tall order for $300.

But I understand the budget, you'll just have to accept that any video camera in that range is going to be VERY consumer oriented, not likely that great in low light (even "good" cameras aren't always that great at night!), and prone to give you some pretty jittery images when moving around.

Just a possible suggestion given your budget, you may want to consider some of the small "point & shoot" cameras that also shoot video.

You didn't say if shooting HD is important to you, but I'll presume it is. Some of these small still cameras can shoot some decent video at 720, and a few even at 1080, and they are at least in your general price range. Hope that is helpful in your quest!

For "casual" personal video, I'm now using a Sony DSC TX7, and the DSC-HX5 is also in the collection (although the audio leaves a lot to be desired in loud situations). Not bad for the $ involved, fairly clean in low light (not stellar, but somewhat workable) and pretty good image stabilization.

Welcome Gustavs
 

You came to the right place! There is a wealth of information here, but most of all, lots and lots of good people, all willing to help you.

The video camera market has evolved into something incredibly diverse over the last couple of years. The market is huge, and most manufacturers are bending backwards to bring consumers good and inexpensive camcorders and photo cameras with video capability. I am still amazed to see 720P camcorders for under $80 and 1080P camcorders for under $100...

Start your search on the one and only B&H website and narrow down your search based on your criteria. A good page to start on is: Camcorders, Video Cameras, Digital Video | B&H Photo Video. Keep in mind, these are US models for the most part, but some are for PAL countries, or after searching the US model, you might be able to find the European model with the same characteristics at some European store.

Good luck, and do come back, tell us what you found!

Hello

Well , i owned Sony Cyber-shot DSC-T7 cam :)

It was fine tbh , but i didnt like the video quality at all , and the way i had to hold the camera. Felt wrong for me.

How ever ur models are a lot better than my model. But i do think that Kodak Zi8 is a much more better bargain . Looks like its half the price of DSC TX7 and by comparing some video samples on youtube it seams that Kodak Zi8 has better video quality as well.


And yes . HD i think is a need these days . :) Tho i can be wrong.

Il look into it :):)


But what are your thoughts on Kodak Zi8 ?:)

And you are saying that the same model bought in USA will differ from the one i get from my local retailer in Europe?

Please do not quote
 

Gustavs, there is no reason for repeating posts, it just eats up space.

Yes, US models will shoot mostly 30 fps (NTSC) while European models will do 25 fps (PAL). Some will also shoot 24 fps progressive.

Ohh, sorry.

I have to order my Camcorder on ebay then, from USA.

No Gustavs
 

That's not a good idea. You live in a country with PAL television standard, while the US is on NTSC standard. While most of the more recent television sets will play both standards, you will eventually run into issues with compatibility, so it is advisable to stay within your country's tv standard. I suggested you do some research on the B&H website to get an idea of what is available and so can figure out what you would like to buy. Then do some more research, maybe on the manufacturer's website and find the correponding PAL model of that camcorder.

german or british ebay
 

Gustavs, there´s also a german or british ebay, and most of their cameras are PAL-models. Try ebay.de or ebay.co.uk

Ryan Maxwell
 

Not garbage, Ryan, you brought up an interesting point. Since I recently acquired a DSLR for shooting video (after 10 years on the XL1), I think I can chime in with some personal observations.

There may be some legitimate reasons why some people might be reluctant to go the DSLR route, and not sheer stubbornness or narrow-mindedness. Due to the dramatically different form factor, it completely changes the shooting experience, at least when not using a tripod. Some form of external support is necessary, such as a Zacuto or Redrock, or some of the other more traditional shoulder pods that have been around since lightweight DV camcorders. Everything about the ergonomics of DSLR video shooting requires compromise or at least re-learning and adapting. Things that traditional camcorder users take for granted like zooming, rack focusing, even on-board audio, require either external accessories or a different technique. Not everybody will be willing to put up with it.

The big carrot is the ability to shoot 1080P for pennies on the dollar, with the sweetener of the relatively tiny footprint of a still camera (especially if I was going to bring along a still camera anyway). I can see myself keeping a shoulder-mounted "normal" vidcam for many years to come.

Yes, I did see that episode of House, and the image quality was absolutely first-rate. SNL is also using DSLRs for its Digital Shorts and pre-recorded intros. The DSLR is here to stay.

Canon 5D Mark II.
 

There's something really traditional, it seems, about the Canon 5D Mark II. Check this out:


and for $900 you can get the 2ti

Canon EOS Digital Rebel T2i

Similar performance for 1/2 the price ( I am told do not get the stock lens, so $799 and get a better lens)

What camera would you buy for 2,000 (uk pounds) ?

I dont know if CCD is better than CMOS, but i was thinking of the CANON A1E?

There's no such camera Andrew. The Canon XHA1 is above your price point and the HV40 may be too cheap (though very good at £876).

The Sony A1 is about to be discontinued but it's done exceedingly well in the marketplace. Do you need XLR inputs? What is it you want the camera to do? Must it be hi-def? Tape or card? Big or small? Maybe the Sony HD1000 £1150 is worth a look-see.

CMOS isn't better than CCD, but it uses less power and makes for cheaper processing, so it's 'better' for the manufacturers. It's no sharper though, and does have some drawbacks that we've all had to accept.

tom.

Hi Tom,

I've priced the canon xha1 up, the cheapest i could find it for was 2,300. I could stretch to the extra bit of cash, but
thats about my limit.

Yes, I need xlr inputs. Mainly for documentaries, short films, special interest videos, and low cost corporate trainings
videos.
I'd prefer tape. Hi-def. Size isnt important, what the camera can do/offer and the quality of it.

I'll have a browe at those two cameras you've mentioned.

Andy

Andrew,

If I had £2000 to spend and wanted a video camera instead of a DSLR:

£2000 will currently get you a JVC HM100 - check ProAV and other suppliers. There is a special offer this month. (£2026 at ProAV, including VAT). It was £2500 previously.

I presume you mean Sony A1E? I would forget about it, it's very old hat. The HM100 is compact, gives the option of XLR sound input, has 3 CCDs, and dual SDHC card slots. I would suggest it is much better than the HD1000 from Sony and miles ahead of the HV40 from Canon.

Well worth a look. Check out the footage in the HM100 forum. Check out Philip Bloom's review (Google for it).

(Oops, you just posted that you want tape. Really? Are you sure about that?)

Hi Mike,

I'm slightly biased towards tape, as i have the most experience with it. I'm not ruling out the recording other formats.

thanks
Andrew

Hard decision
 

Hey guys I'm new here, how's it going? So I've been trying to figure out what camera to get, and it's been a very hard decision, I hear different things from different people. I need it for nightclubs shoots, weddings, commercials, the occasional music video, but also short films. Pretty much all around. I was told to get a Panny HPX170 with an adapter, another told me Canon 5D. The best suggestion given to me was to get a Canon T2i and a Sony fx-1. I'm thinking to wait for the Panny AF100, since it seems like the perfect mix of dslr and pro video cameras. I have $6000 dollars to spend so let me know what you think... Thanks!

Good evening,

Just remember that you have time frame limitations with a dslr. If you arre shooting vows, you do not want the camera stopping mid stride!!! besides, most weddings require two cameras.

If you want to shoot video I recomend you get a video camera. A used fx 1 will take nice footage, the newer fx1000 better with exmor technology does low light rather well for hd.

with 6 grand to work with two fx1s would make nice event vids. of course canon and panasonic do as well.
good luck

for nightclub shoots I would not buy a fx1 as it's not a great low light performer, if I would get as much as possible out of a 6g budget I would go for a pana hmc151 and a canon 550D.

This will give you a very wide range of possibilities and enough spare cash to get some more goodies.
You can get some cheap fast nikon primes for your 550D that will give you low light capabilities no videocamera can give you. Also the very shallow dof and possibility to put on a very wide lens are some of the advantages a dslr can give you.
You can buy a cheap zoom H1 for audio with your dslr, a hoodloupe for better focussing, a blackbird for gliding shots and I know of a cheaper slider (around 100 dollar but can't recall the name now)

This will give you a lot of possibilities for your budget.

I was thinking, what I wait for the panny af 100? That would give me the ease of a video camera but the good low light and shallow dof capability of a dslr.

Canon HF S20 or Panasonic TM700K
 

I am going to be purchasing a new camera, since I am selling my HF10. I am wondering whether I should buy the HF S20 or the TM700K. I love the look of Panasonic and the TM700K a 3MOS camera, but am wondering if I should keep it in the family.

What do you think?

Going to Africa - B-Cam for High Speed shooting
 

Going to Africa for a Photo/Video Safari Documentary of Animal Life.

My A-Cam is a Nikon D90 which will be pulling double duty (photos and videos) and I'm looking into getting a secondary camera to capture high speed action (animals doing stuff). My though is to get a mount so that it sits side by side the nikon so I can focus on pictures and let it film away.

- Uses SD Cards or Internal Memory
- 720p (1080p is also good but I don't make movies that high a resolution)
- 60p or faster (not 30p/25p with frame doubling) end movie will likely be 24p to sync with D90
- Needs to be able to film longer that 5 minutes.
- Side Swivel Screen would be nice
- Good Optical Telephoto Capabilities a bonus.

My initial though was the Hero Camera - GoPro Official Store: Wearable Digital Cameras for Sports or the Lumix G2 (but its 30p and doubles frames for 60p claim) but I'm wondering if there is something with a higher frame rate?

I think the Panasonic TM700 does real 1080/60P.

Canon 60D: 720p 60fps, 12 min rec time, swivel screen, plenty of telephoto options depending on what lenses you use

good camera for amature?
 

I am looking for a video camera to use to try and teach myself... well how to shoot. I know little to nothing about video production outside of home videos. I am looking for something that is versital meaning I would like it do do just about anything well. It doesnt have to do everything the best but good enough to produce usable video.

I plan to use it like I said to learn, but to learn for the purpose of creating website videos, small town (lower quality) commercials and area tourism videos (waterfalls, people skiing, wildlife, etc.), action sports videos, green screen shoots, and also to use with 3d animations created with 3ds max.

If it helps,

I have the Adobe CS3 production suite to use for production and editing etc.

I have a budget between $2000 - $2500.

If anyone has any good suggestions about which camera is a solid starter camera that will do the things listed above or anything mentioned above, or if you need more info let me know.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Peter

In the $2k range there are very few cameras to really learn on that are capable of producing "commercial" level footage. The reason why is that there are very few new cameras out on the current market that will give you full manual control. To really capture great footage, it's crucial that a camera operator needs to be able to adjust the major settings and to not let the camera make these decisions in Auto Mode.

The key settings are:

Iris/Aperture
Gain
White Balance
Focus
Shutter Speed

Any "handycam" will help get you a "good" image, however, it's once you begin to understand exposure and how to utilize the camera's controls that you begin to really get great footage...of course, next you'll want to learn about composition, tripods/moving camera, lighting, and audio. The best way to learn is just by doing. So, budget for a tripod too, maybe a light and a good mic.

My recommendation for now in the $2k range would be to go for the Panasonic HMC40.

I'm not sure if CS3 supports AVCHD.

Check with the local TV station for what format's they'll accept. If they'll take standard def, another thought is to get a used Standard Definition camera that shoots DV format like the XL1S or XL2. I learned all about manual audio and video on an XL1S. YMMV.

Speaking of audio, there's more to video than the camera. Knowing lighting and applying it on site is critical and as the saying goes, audio is half the video. Whatever camera you choose, make sure there's an add-on to let you use XLR audio equipment.

Lastly, one of the most overlooked pieces of equipment is the tripod. Unlikely any shaky cam handheld stuff will be too acceptable. A good tripod and head is over $1k and you eventually WILL buy a good one if you stick with it. The issue is how many will you buy and throw away before then.

Les and Guy

I appreciate the advice. As for the TV commercials: That would be down the road considerably. So I guess to aid you in your recommondations to me, I would say heavy towards internet video (advertising) and local tourism videos again likely to be distributed on the net. But I wanted something that isnt limited to that. I have learned just from reading posts that the video is only part of the package. It does seem that the tripod is a major consideration when getting into filming. Those topics will be the very next thing I work on.

As for AVCHD not working with CS3, working with CS3 is a must because I allready have it and will not be able to afford another editing software.

I will research the few cameras that have been suggested, but in the mean time if the above has cleared any questions and someone has anymore suggestions, im all ears.

Thanks, Peter

Peter, if you need to stay with your current software, it probably means you have to work on the computer you already have - and that puts some serious limits. To edit AVCHD you need not only a new editing software, but also a late model computer, at the minimum a quad core with 6GB of RAM, but preferably a hyper threaded quad (i7) with 12Gigs of RAM.

I would say this: decide if you really need HD or not. If you do, than go for a used HDV camcorder like the FX1 or something similar. If SD will do, than you might be able to find a really good used professional camera, that will give you plenty opportunities to learn all about manual settings.

And don't forget, 70% of everything we see is... the sound, so plan on getting a decent mike. You already mentioned the tripod, oh, and did I mention lights? It's an expensive hobby, but if you manage to learn the basics, you will soon be able to make some money and only THEN think about upgrading.

Good luck!

First off I have to say that I really feel like the video community (specifically dvinfo) is a very unified cooperative group. I have had plenty of interests that I have researched online and have dropped because of lack of cooperative forums.

This is not the case here. Everytime that I have a question it is met with great responses in a short period of time. So thanks to everyone for that.

Ervin,

As for the computer, I have recently built a custom computer for myself with an i7 and 8gb of RAM upgradeable to 12gb. So I have the power there. As for the HD vs. SD? Thats one of the questions that I am looking to the pros for. I would imagine that SD would probably be enough for the education process and for the few projects that I would like to do for that process.

What is the resale market in production cameras. If I buy the good used SD to start with, am I going to be able to recoop some money when I go to upgrade or is it like a car, where the price drops like a rock. Or the tech will be out dated and no one will want it a couple years from now.

So the question for this post is:
Assuming I have decided on going SD. what are the recommended cameras for self educating, and projects like web videos, perhaps green screen, and in combination with green screen apply video to 3d projects using 3ds Max.

Thanks again to the entire community for being an active and helpful group.

Hi Peter,

My feeling is that SD is already outdated. I think you could get a decent XL2 or better SD camera for a decent price these days (used or maybe even new). Practice with that, without expecting to re-coop anything in the near future.

Good sound equipment, and lights will maintain their value for ...,well, ever I would guess. Those two things haven't fundamentally evolved since the beginnings of filmmaking.

I hope my opinion is of some use to you.

Cheers,

DK

Peter,
You define the Prosumer: Serious hobbyist who will spend gobs of time and effort to produce a professional result in an attempt to pick up a couple small jobs every once in a while or just for the satisfaction of producing a quality production. In this endeavour, you will learn to appreciate the features and functions of professional gear, professional skills, professional behavior and professional technique.

As mentioned, producing professional results is more than the camera. But as far as the camera goes, the idea of going with a 16x9 SD camera such as the XL2, PD170 or similar prosumer models from Panasonic and JVC, was a way (for your budget) move past consumer gear into prosumer where you will start to experience professional camera controls.

Having those controls enables you to learn professional skills and apply professional technique. With a greater budget, there could be HD prosumer cameras but at $2000 for camera, tripod, lights, and audio, you're getting recommendations to go with used SD stuff. That's where you can get your hands on controls like Custom White Balance, Picture Controls, Exposure compensation, shutter speed, iris/zoom/focus rings, gain, phantom power the whole nine yards.

So don't focus on the fact it's SD and can you recoup an investment by selling it. Unlikely. Best case is you can produce some results for the web that people will pay you money for as a way to recover money spent on all your equipment that lets you deliver well edited, properly lit, clean audio, and beautiful images with smooth pans, zooms and tilts.

Thanks again everyone.

I have been thinking about this so much lately the last couple nights I have been dreaming about producing video.

I have decided (about 98% anyways) to go with a used XL2. That is the camera that most have recommended. As stated that way I have some left over cash to start picking up some better quality tripods, lights, and audio gear.

Also it seems like the XL2 is very versitle. Ive seen that people are using it for just about anything, commercials, web, live broadcasts, green sceen, etc.

Is ebay the best / best value place to find a used XL2 or can someone recommend a better place?

Thanks, Peter

Peter - I'm one of the lucky ones who actually gets to make a good living out of using my camera. My advice - if you want to be a serious operator one day - is buy a second hand JVC HD110 or similar. You'll find one in your price range.

Main reasons? it sits on your shoulder like a "proper camera". It's got auto functionality, but it has full manual over-ride, and everything - filters, white balance, iris, focus, gain, audio, the whole lot, - is set up like a full professional camera.

I own a JVC, and love it; I also often shoot on Digibeta and HDCam, so I know what I'm talking about.

I'm just back from a doc shoot in Zimbabwe, and a news/doc shoot in Afghanistan, using the JVC. Both clients completely happy with the product.

The JVC shoots SD, and a HDV 720p codec that is very good for teaching yourself some techniques that you'll use if you ever shoot on film.

Hope this helps.

Best wishes

Rob

Was wondering about picking one up, would anyone have any advice on something, around about £200-£300 max?

It would be cool to get one that would allow the expansion onto XLR and decent audio so I could actually use one for work but that depends on what I can get for my money.