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Old March 29th, 2019, 09:57 AM   #61
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Re: Selling Stock Video Footage.

Doug,

Just one chapter of the course has saved me what would have been countless hour of lost time and work. Your information on "stock & logos" is perfect for me. It is contrary to everything I was once trained to do.

The roots of my image making career lie in professional sports photography. If I was shooting for a specific news organization logos and sponsors info that is plastered everywhere did not matter one way or the other if it was in the shot. It is unavoidable. But, here is the part most people don't know. In many of the images they see in magazines, papers, and the web sponsor info is intentionally included in the composition even if it is a "news story". I am a guy who had to make that happen. My job depended on it.

For example; The United States Ski Team and NASCAR were two of my former clients. I worked out of the media centers like every other journalist but I was often hired by the title organization. My photos would be distributed by the communications director in the media center and of course electronically. What made those jobs so difficult is I HAD to include sponsor logos and info in my action shots or they would not even use the photo. For example, I could get the perfect finish line shot but if you could not read the sponsors name on the thigh of the ski racer my boss would be upset. I had to support sponsors in my journalistic action shots. Tough gigs but it taught me a lot about how advertising and sponsorship works. It was pounded into me and I loved the challenge.

Your course just taught me I must leave that old thinking behind for all stock! I appreciate all of the details you go into on how to handle this. My time is valuable. That one chapter accelerated my learning curve bigtime!

Kind Regards,

Steve
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Old March 30th, 2019, 03:25 PM   #62
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Re: Selling Stock Video Footage.

Well, I finished Doug's course. There were several chapters that I watched more than once and there were times, like creating the spread sheet where I kept toggling back and forth. Anyway, this evening, following Doug's instructions I was able to upload several clips to Shutterstock! I used the FTP site that Doug recommended as well as converting my spread sheet containing all the metadata to a csv file. I must say that everything worked just like he said it would and now I am just sitting back while they get reviewed. I highly recommend this course. Thank you Doug. Bob
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Old March 30th, 2019, 03:39 PM   #63
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Re: Selling Stock Video Footage.

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Originally Posted by Steven Digges View Post
Your course just taught me I must leave that old thinking behind for all stock!
And it's not just company logos, it's any piece of artwork. For instance, here in Austin we have a load of murals. Those murals, regardless of whether the artist filed with the U.S. Copyright Office, are their property. If I get a shot that happens to include a mural in the background somewhere (because it's unavoidable), I'll probably be okay, but if I straight up film the mural for my stock, that's not going to fly.
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Old March 30th, 2019, 09:21 PM   #64
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Re: Selling Stock Video Footage.

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Originally Posted by Gary Huff View Post
If I get a shot that happens to include a mural in the background somewhere (because it's unavoidable), I'll probably be okay
Sorry, you are wrong. You're going to get rejected for commercial use if there is even a hint of a mural, graffiti, signage, etc.

I don't really want to engage in debate with you, but something so blatantly wrong can't go uncorrected. You may very well have cost someone reading your well-meaning but ill-informed advice a lot of wasted time shooting and uploading footage that will absolutely be rejected. If you don't know from personal experience, it is best not to speculate.

Feel free to tell me how I'm wrong, but I won't be replying to you.
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Last edited by Doug Jensen; March 30th, 2019 at 09:59 PM.
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Old March 30th, 2019, 09:23 PM   #65
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Re: Selling Stock Video Footage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Digges View Post
Just one chapter of the course has saved me what would have been countless hour of lost time and work. Your course just taught me I must leave that old thinking behind for all stock! I appreciate all of the details you go into on how to handle this. My time is valuable. That one chapter accelerated my learning curve bigtime!
Steve
Nice to hear, Steve. Very nice!
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Old March 30th, 2019, 09:31 PM   #66
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Re: Selling Stock Video Footage.

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Originally Posted by Bob Safay View Post
I must say that everything worked just like he said it would and now I am just sitting back while they get reviewed. I highly recommend this course. Thank you Doug. Bob
Bob, that is a relief. As much as I tried to test and re-test everything to make sure my steps would work for everyone else, there is always a chance I missed something. I'm glad it went well. I tried not to leave anything out or make the mistake of assuming someone would already know how to do a particular step.

I'm rendering 289 shots overnight that I shot of a wildlfire controlled burn yesterday. The firefighters pretty much let me go and do whatever I wanted. A perfect shoot. Spent most of the day grading it all and I really enjoyed every minute of it. The digital darkroom. It is cool seeing the footage really come alive in post. It still amazes me what a difference a little grading will make. Some of these shots are golden and when I look back in a couple of years I'll bet yesterday and today will have paid off in the thousands of dollars. Not tomorrow. Not next month. But over time. These are valuable assets that I own.

Plus I think I'll be able to sell a lot of clips to the manufacturer of two of the very unique tracked vehicles they used to set/control/fight the fires. I looked at the company's website and they've got nothing like what I'm going to show them. They'll buy it if the price is right, which it will be!
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Old March 30th, 2019, 10:03 PM   #67
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Re: Selling Stock Video Footage.

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Originally Posted by Doug Jensen View Post
You may very well have cost someone reading your well-meaning but ill-informed advice a lot of wasted time shooting and uploading footage that will absolutely be rejected.
So what you're telling me is that I cannot go on Shutterstock and find 4K footage at $179 per clip that will be labeled as "Editorial use only" that has "mural, graffiti, signage, etc." in the background? Or perhaps their clips will be rejected similar to how these were rejected?

https://www.shutterstock.com/video/c...tracks-b-train
https://stock.adobe.com/video/city-a...rev_url=detail
https://www.shutterstock.com/video/c...graffiti-walls
https://www.shutterstock.com/video/c...ackground-slow
https://stock.adobe.com/video/young-...rev_url=detail

Last edited by Gary Huff; March 30th, 2019 at 10:38 PM.
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Old March 31st, 2019, 05:16 AM   #68
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Re: Selling Stock Video Footage.

1) When you said this . . . . "I'll probably be okay, but if I straight up film the mural for my stock, that's not going to fly." . . .. it was clear to me you were talking about commercial. Because if you were talking about editorial you wouldn't have said those things.

2) Many clips that got approved for commercial in the past will not pass today and it would be a huge waste of time to try submitting them as editorial. Different standards for different times. If you were actually a stock footage contributor you'd know where the lines are being drawn today.

I have quite few clips in my portfolio that would not be approved if I uploaded them now.

Please prove me wrong. Submit a few clips that have graffiti or a mural in them as commercial to Shutterstock and see what happens. And if you decide to submit them as editorial instead, good luck making any sales with that. When can you upload some test clips, tomorrow? I'll expect to see the clips online by mid-week. Please post a link when they are ready.
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Old March 31st, 2019, 06:18 AM   #69
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Re: Selling Stock Video Footage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Jensen View Post
When you said this . . . . "I'll probably be okay, but if I straight up film the mural for my stock, that's not going to fly." . . .. it was clear to me you were talking about commercial. Because if you were talking about editorial you wouldn't have said those things.
Just because you can get something approved on any of the stock footage sites does not mean you're in the clear. That's what I meant.

Quote:
Many clips that got approved for commercial in the past will not pass today
When were these clips that I linked to submitted?

Quote:
And if you decide to submit them as editorial instead, good luck making any sales with that.
Then why are you still wasting your time uploading "Editorial use only" clips from as recently as this month?

Quote:
When can you upload some test clips, tomorrow? I'll expect to see the clips online by mid-week. Please post a link when they are ready.
I get that you have nothing but free time, but I am pretty slammed with client projects that I have to get down before my straight week of filming and then Vegas after that. I'll get to it when I have downtime.
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Old March 31st, 2019, 07:41 AM   #70
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Re: Selling Stock Video Footage.

Gary, just to be clear I never said it was a waste of time to submit clips as editorial. There is good money to be made with editorial clips, but it is much more preferable to be accepted as commercial because then the clip has a much higher potential of getting purchased. You agree with that, right?

What I meant is that it is waste of someone's time to jump through all the hoops to submit a clip as commercial just to have it smacked down by a reviewer and then have to jump through all the hoops again to submit it again as editorial and hope it gets through that way instead. If someone has the experience under their belt to know what will likely get approved and what won't, that can save a lot of time and aggravation redoing the metadata and uploading the files all over again. Time is money.

More than 95% of my clips are accepted for however I submit them. And about 1/2 of the ones that get reject are unfair so I resubmit and they go through on another try. But that still leaves 2-3% of clips that I disagree about with the reviews but it is their sandbox so they make the rules.

Also, as far as I know, there is no way at Shutterstock or Adobe to determine when someone else's clip was first uploaded, or how many times it has sold, or anything else of value. But trust me when I say that the reviewers have gotten much more strict on what will trigger a rejection. I have a lot of shots that would never be approved today for commercial, but nevertheless, they are there online now. I'm sure there are many contributors with the same kinds of clips.
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Old March 31st, 2019, 09:28 AM   #71
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Re: Selling Stock Video Footage.

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Originally Posted by Doug Jensen View Post
Gary, just to be clear I never said it was a waste of time to submit clips as editorial.There is good money to be made with editorial clips
Oh really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Jensen View Post
And if you decide to submit them as editorial instead, good luck making any sales with that.
Quote:
but it is much more preferable to be accepted as commercial because then the clip has a much higher potential of getting purchased. You agree with that, right?
I agree with that as much as you apparently do, with your last whole batch of uploaded clips to Shutterstock from this month being editorial.

Quote:
What I meant is that it is waste of someone's time to jump through all the hoops to submit a clip as commercial just to have it smacked down by a reviewer and then have to jump through all the hoops again to submit it again as editorial and hope it gets through that way instead.
No, Doug, you didn't mean that. They should know what's acceptable for each different one, and should submit as appropriate, just like you did with your latest batch of clips.

Quote:
Time is money.
That's rich coming from someone who doesn't count their time or travel expenses in their b.s. $279/hour claim.

Quote:
More than 95% of my clips are accepted for however I submit them. And about 1/2 of the ones that get reject are unfair so I resubmit and they go through on another try. But that still leaves 2-3% of clips that I disagree about with the reviews but it is their sandbox so they make the rules.
Which means that you have had, at the very least, 213 clips ejected. If you spend your claimed 5 minutes per clip, that's 18 hours of work that got rejected. And, of course, doesn't include your travel expenses and the time you spent capturing said content to begin with.

Quote:
But trust me when I say that the reviewers have gotten much more strict on what will trigger a rejection.
Why wouldn't I trust someone's word who claims you can make $279/hour at stock footage and then admit they value their production time at $0 and don't count travel, room, and eating expenses?
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Old March 31st, 2019, 09:38 AM   #72
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Re: Selling Stock Video Footage.

Doug, don't even try to reason with Gary, it is wasting your time, just as he wastes everyone else's time. Anyway, following your instruction on uploading was so simple and smooth. My goal is submit 3-5 more clips today. I will let you know as soon as I hear back from Shutterstock as to whether they were accepted. Have a great day and I wish you well on the clips of controlled burning in Florida. Bob
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Old March 31st, 2019, 10:27 AM   #73
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Re: Selling Stock Video Footage.

Bob, you are right. I tried to have a civil discussion but he just wants to pick a fight just for the fun of it I suppose. Time to go back to ignoring, time is money.
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Old March 31st, 2019, 02:12 PM   #74
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Re: Selling Stock Video Footage.

Well I just submitted 4 more clips for approval to Shutterstock, including one that was classified "editorial" just to try it. Again I followed all of Doug's suggestions on importing clips, editing, grading, creating metadata, uploading via an FTP site and submitting for final approval. To be honest, if I had not taken this course and just went at it myself I would have received so many rejections that I would have gotten frustrated and dropped the whole idea. However, by following Doug's methodology I know I have a good chance of having some of my clips accepted. I will let ya'll know what happens next. Bob
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Old March 31st, 2019, 03:02 PM   #75
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Re: Selling Stock Video Footage.

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Originally Posted by Doug Jensen View Post
... Time to go back to ignoring, time is money.
Doug, there's actually an inbuilt forum function to help you permanently achieve this. Here's a quote by Chris from another thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hurd View Post
... Meanwhile, for any member here who finds himself or herself sufficiently irked with a specific fellow member, may I please remind all of you about this simple, easy, and readily available option:

Edit Member Ignore List

Hope this helps. Let's give this thing a rest for the time being. Thanks,
I've only got one member on my ignore list (I just didn't like the way he communicated to the other members), so I've got no idea what he's been saying on this thread. I can only guess from the responses by yourself and others. The Ignore List, I've found, restores DV Info to the friendly, helpful, constructive place that it's meant to be.
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