Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

Well I like to do preliminary storyboards but of course, once you get to a location certain shots may have to change of course. But I still like to have preliminaries ready to go for when meeting with DPs, so they have a sense of what I am going for, unless this is not the way to go?

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

Sounds reasonable.

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

Do you think that shooting a movie in black and white would be a kiss of death when wanting to get into festivals and hopefully get distribution?

In past short films viewers said they got distracted by unwanted colors in the backgrounds of locations and public places, that I had no control over, such as a bright neon red car parked in the background or something like that. I talked to a DP about it and he suggested that this project be shot in black and white to avoid unwanted color backgrounds since we are shooting on real streets, and not locations where he have control over everything. Or is that a kiss of death of a chance at success nowadays?

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

Homie, that is what color correction/grading is for. Select unwanted color, mute/desaturate it or change it completely. In some cases you may be doing this frame by frame.

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

Okay thanks, it's just every time I've tried to do this, not all the pixels get cut out and you can see incorrect pixels in the picture as a result, and it's quite obvious. I can keep trying with it though :)

I guess another reason about 2.39, is that I feel more confident with it, in the sense that it seems movies that are shot in 2.39 are usually more successful than movies shot in 1.85. Movies shot in 2.39 seem to be the bigger hits usually and I wonder if it's psychological, as in audiences are drawn into those movies more, so once they see them they get better word of mouth, because of the more cinematic experience with 2.39? Or am I wrong and they are just bigger hits cause most movies are shot in 2.39, but it has nothing to do with success?

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

Not sure what youre using to grade but DaVinci Resolve has a free version and the paid version is $300. That’s top shelf software for grading. You will have to get to know the tools well to isolate colors the way I mean and again you may have manually draw masks and go practically frame by frame depending on the situation. No one said it was quick and easy but if your budgetary limitations dictate you have crap in the background you dont want colorwise than thats your only real option.

No idea about aspect ratios but I guarantee they werent hits BECAUSE of that. Worry about writing, acting, production quality, etc., probably ANYTHING else before which aspect ratio will make your film more successful.

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

Stanley Kubrick disagrees.

Forgive me if I've just opened a can of worms here, but it's true.

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

Yeah but Kubrick hasn't made any movies in the last 20 years and it seems in the last 20 years, and hardly any in the 90s even, so I meant today, people just seem more drawn to the movies shot in scope it seems.

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

It's been proven quite difficult to make movies when you're dead. Many have tried, none have succeeded.

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

Movies shot in 2.39 usually have a large amount of money invested in their production (with star names etc) and and a huge amount in the marketing. The latter is an important factor in the success of the films, even then success isn't guaranteed.

A comic franchise is probably what you want for box office success, these days.

However, bear in mind that your film is extremely unlikely to get a theatrical release, in the past it would've gone straight video or today the streaming services will be more likely.

I would put more effort into what is going to sell your film, rather spending so much time worrying about the aspect ratio. Using scope seems to be more about giving you confidence than what may be right for your film,

Genre films that aren't scope:



The title on this must've sold it, I caught 5 mins on the horror channel the other night. You need something that makes your film stand out in the market you're aiming for.


In the end it's your decision, but the success of your film will depend on more than the aspect ratio. Coming up with a new take on a subject/genre or a touch of originality will take you much further.

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

Yes, quite difficult... but not impossible, my friend. It can be done. Orson left us 33 years ago, but The Other Side of The Wind hit theaters just last November.

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

This is totally and utterly crazy! Are you really saying that Stanley Kubrick's movies are worthless and unworthy of watching because they don't conform to a size!!!!

Ryan - you've really got a bizarre idea of the entire movie industry if you believe this. Every movie, since the Keystone Cops has been judged on the content, and mainly the quality of the product in the theatres. Many started to do releases in multiple formats, and this is more evident now with things like IMAX.

The vast proportion of viewers care nothing for technicalities - it's how it comes across. I'd rather watch a Kubrick movie in any aspect ratio on any size screen than some of the rubbish we have access to nowadays.

I simply don't like masking, but if it had to be used to let that Kubrick movie be shown on my TV, computer monitor or cinema screen, the content says I'd put up with it. I don't know what the US is like, but the BBC here get good viewing figures for their re-runs of 1970s comedy TV, in 4:3, recorded in composite 625 line video.

Are you aware how ridiculous this sounds? People are that stupid? I hate movies made recently - I have lost it totally - I start a movie on Netflix, and within 5 minutes I'm pressing stop - and I can say that the aspect ratio has nothing whatsoever to do with this. I'll pop off and watch 2001 to cheer myself up.

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

Touche on Orson Welles.

Paul are you sure your physical and mental health are up to continuing in this thread?

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

You're not alone. At home pretty much the only thing we have on the TV (which is happily off most of the time) is Turner Classic Movies. Although we've also had good luck recently with MGM-HD, RetroPlex and the Sony movie channel.

If I use some on-demand service like Netflix, then I'm usually deep-diving for something old and obscure that I've never seen or haven't watched in 20 years... that's what "new" is to me these days... my "new" is something old that I don't know.

For just about anything recent, I leave it up to my wife to choose. Just the other day, on a rare jaunt to the movies in order to check out a new theater that recently opened up nearby (Santikos for any fellow Texans), she suggested Once Upon A Time... In Hollywood ("even though it's Tarantino," she said, not really much of a fan). Sure, I replied, why not? I've learned to trust her on new stuff.

Anyway, we both loved it. In my opinion, it's Tarantino's best work ever.

And I have no recollection what aspect ratio it was shown in... nor do I care.

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

Netflix has plenty of good stuff but also plenty of crap. If it’s not one of the flagship shows (I barely watch features anymore) that everyone knows/makes the news/goes viral I look to what people are raving about on Facebook (yes I know many of you loathe/are not on FB.That’s fine). They’re USUALLY right. “Dead to Me” was the most recent case...I show I would never have watched but gave it a try cause people kept mentioning it and was pleasantly surprised.

Generally I think shows/series have replaced feature films as things to watch for quality entertainment.

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

Agreed. What really appeals to me about a mini-series is that so much more can be done with the narrative arc relative to a typical two- or three-hour film. Even if it's just one season, such as AMC's "The Terror," which was a terrific spin on the true story of the ill-fated Franklin Expedition of 1845 to find the Northwest Passage. It's an adaption of a book by Dan Simmons, who fictionalized the account into the horror genre, and it's very well done.

I've also really enjoyed AMC's Mad Men, Hell On Wheels and The Son, WGN's Manhattan, HBO's Deadwood, John Adams, Band of Brothers and The Pacific to name just a few. Firefly, from Fox (sadly, just one season). Yellowstone on Paramount. ITV's Downton Abbey. There are so many good ones.

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

Oh no, I'm not knocking Kubrick at all! I like the movies of his I've seen so far. It's just that scope is more popular nowadays, and with today's audience so I thought I would apply to what today's audience might like compared to when Kubrick was making movies, that's all.

Okay thanks. I forgot that The Raid was shot in 1.85:1. The Raid 2 was shot in 2.39:1, so why did they decide to go wider for the sequel though? Wouldn't 2.39:1 also serve for the tight boxed in feel for the first one, much like it did for Alien, for example?

And perhaps a lot of indie filmmakers are just using 2.39:1 the most cause most blockbuster movies use it nowadays? I went to a film festival, and so many of the indy films are using 2.39 now I am surprised. But they are using it cause it's the best aspect ratio in many regards for most movies, or because they feel they are doing it, cause everyone else is doing it?

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

You still haven't got it Ryan.

Viewers are not interested in the shape of the picture - to say they are more interested in scope is laughable. I'd bet that if you asked people what aspect ratio they liked best, you'd get a very strange look. if you gave them a clue it's about picture shapes, the best you'd get is wide screen?? A few may know the name Cinemascope, but just think it's wide screen, which it is, in loads of variants. Cinerama, VistaVision, Techniscope, IMAX etc etc. game show questions, but movie viewers only care about how good the movie is.

I'm not even sure what a blockbuster is any more?

on Kubrick's dislike of wide screen formats it's reported that he said:

That sums up his attitude rather nicely?

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

The reverse happened with "Aliens", the sequel to "Alien". The reason you're getting more 2.39 at festivals is that it costs no more to shoot it than 1.85, unlike when films were being shot on film. Then low budget film makers were putting ground glass adapters onto the front of their 1/3" DV cameras, so that they could get a 35mm DOF,

It's basically the same thing, but now it's scope - you can get an anamorphic lens for your phone.However, doing all this won't increase the chances of your film being picked up by a distributor or being selected by a festival.

Same reason is likely for The Raid 2 being shot in scope, they had the option when it was being made because they were using a RED, Also the world is a city, not a vertical tower block, so it makes sense to use scope.

You keep repeating yourself with the same question. Know your story and its world and pick the aspect ratio that fits it best. No one here can answer that, so stop asking the same question and make a decision, that's what directors do.

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

Oh yeah I know most viewers do not know what scope is, it's just I thought maybe most audiences were drawn to scope without knowing it subconsciously, since so many of the movies that are hits were shot in scope.

Oh yeah, I noticed that in Aliens Cameron decided to go with 1.85, but was there a reason to go less wide, compared to the first one?

I thought they could just shoot the first Raid in scope by using 2.39 firmware on the camera, or just putting tape on the top and bottom of the camera, to frame for 2.39, and then just crop it out later. You don't need a RED camera to shoot 2.39. you can do it on any camera with firmware or tape on the monitor, and then crop the image to 2.39 in post, can't you? So why not do that for the first RAID instead of waiting to get a RED to do it?


As for Kubrick thinking 1.85:1 is too wide, I thought about the 4:3 aspect ratio as well for height, but thought audiences might not like that.

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

The firmware options now available didn't exist when The Raid was made, I gather they used a Pro 35 adapter, on a Panasonic AG-AF100 so they could use Zeiss motion picture lenses.

Cameron likes back projection, so that might be one reason for shooting 1.85. The other reasons were discussed earlier in the thread.

If you see a Kubrick film, it's on his terms regarding aspect ratio, it's up to the audience to adapt.

4 x 3 suggests period, so unless it's a classic film or recreating a classic film feel, there no reason to use it.

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

We're closing in fast on 200 posts in this discussion, nothing wrong with that; although it's been very circular the occasional side-roads have made it somewhat interesting.

Ryan, my friend, I hope we have managed to impress upon you that you are over-thinking the matter of aspect ratio a great deal.

Just shoot in 16:9 and turn your attention to filmmaking matters which are much more important -- such as the story itself, the caliber of acting, production planning, adequate lighting and sound, etc.

You're certainly welcome to keep at it here -- you have re-framed (heh!) the same question in a variety of different ways, and you're welcome to continue with that approach, but the answer isn't going to change.

If you're making something for fun that's just meant to be seen by a few friends on YouTube, then 16:9 is your friend.

If you're making something that you'd like to make money on / find distribution for / take to a film festival / whatever, then 16:9 is your friend.

If you want to experiment with some other aspect ratio, then by all means do so, but remember the excellent advice you received way back on Page One:

I can appreciate that you keep asking "what about [major film release X]" and so on, but there's really not much relevance there. None of those productions compare to what you're doing, in all honesty. Set your camera to 16:9 and start concentrating your efforts on how best to fill that frame and how best to move it. Those are the topics that really need your attention.

Best of luck to you and hope this helps!

(and no, I'm not closing this thread... yet)

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

Sorry if I got carried with it, I just didn't want to shoot in one and then regret it later, thinking I should have picked a different one for other reasons, etc.

Looking back on page 1, the responses mostly talk about how distributors want 16:9 to fill the whole frame with. I just found it odd, cause if you get distribution through say Netflix or Amazon Prime, all the movies I've seen on there that were shot in scope, still have the scope ratio while being broadcasted. They don't pan and scan movies on those services it seems, unless I'm wrong and they do sometimes?

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

Broadcasters and streaming companies use varying approaches to how they transmit scope films. Again, this has already been discussed earlier in the thread,

Films can be shown in 16;9, rather than full 2.39 or 2.20 or which other variation they can come up with to reduce the letterbox effect on standard screens. Ir depends on their policy and how they perceive their viewers reacting to not having their screen filled by the film. Some people don't like the black bars at the top and bottom of the screen.

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

Oh okay I know it was discussed before it's just I never see movies panned and scanned on streaming services anymore. If some people don't like the black bars, do streaming services do any pan and scan versions of the movie for them then? The only time I have seen panning and scanning is from old DVDs from the 2000s, before blu ray. But where are these panned and scanned movies nowadays on streaming?

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

The streaming companies may stream in the correct aspect ratio because it's their policy, Channel 4 a broadcaster in the UK does the same. I suspect their market expects full picture to be shown. Other markets don't

Again, the choice of aspect ratio ratio is entirely up to you

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

They're gone, hopefully.

Pan & scan was just a way to show widescreen films on old-school analog 4:3 television screens.

Since those no longer exist in any sort of significant number, pan & scan is thankfully a thing of the past now.

More about the history of aspect ratios here: http://gigazine.net/news/20151117-hi...-aspect-ratio/ (set your web browser to translate from Japanese).

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

I'd forgotten those awful ground glass adaptors for the 'cinematic' look. Did anyone ever get anything other than grainy soft results with them? I'm so glad that in my entire career, my quest has always been for no focus issues. Until the last few years shallow focus and soft backgrounds have been the thing I avoid like the plague. Now light levels have come right down because cameras are so good.

I'm never convinced that my determination of cinematic is DoF, or aspect ratio, or framing - but the overall look and feel. I am very traditionalist. I like stability, I like framing that lets my eye wander, I like pans and tilts that start and end smoothly and I need horizontal horizons.

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

Well the thing about shooting in 16:9 like some say to, is that since it's not near as wide, a lot of OTS shots, become dirty OTS shots as a result. Not sure if I like dirty OTS shots as much, cause those ones give a different feel. I suppose to you could have full OTS shots in 1.85, but then you have to push the characters further away into the picture.

Am I right on that?

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

Many great films manage to do OTS in 4 x 3, 1.66,. 1.85 etc, so use the aspect ratio that works for you..

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

Okay thanks. Well I want to shoot my project in the same style as High and Low (1963), that movie has mastershots in with quite a few people in some of the shots. Here is a video essay on some of the shots as well:


Would those kind of wide mastershots with a few characters in work at 1.85:1 as well?

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

Setting up the shots you envision in Frame Forge could literally tell you exacty that.

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

Okay thanks, I keep trying to download the free trial, but every time I do it keeps saying an expected error occurs and it can't download for some reason. I'm downloading the PC version which my computer is, but maybe there is something else that is the matter.

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

Sorry to hear. Youve got me there, dont know what your issue might be. I’m on a Mac.

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

Scroll down to "Freedom of Choice."

https://www.apa.org/monitor/jan01/positivepsych

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

If you wish to to use horizontal space as in the Kurosawa film, go for scope, if not, go for 1.85 or 16:9.

If in doubt, write out a list of the pros and cons of the factors, then make a decision and stick to it. The aspect ratio is one of the easier decisions in making a film.

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

As you don't appear to be able to plan in advance, and need a rule book to follow like painting by numbers, why not increase the pixel count, go wider and then sort it out later.

You've also started to use terminology I don't understand. Dirty over the shoulder shot? Never heard that and really have no clue what it means? Something else you've grabbed from somewhere? Same with the constant use of 'scope' it's really terminology that is in many ways, akin to the audiophile groups. As in, a bit niche and strange.

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

"Scope" is just short hand, it comes from Cinemascope, it doesn't mean you're using anamorphic lenses or a particular system. It's easier to say in conversation than 2.39:1, or you'd say anamorphic or the system being used eg Techniscope or Panavision

*Flat" widescreen would get used in connection 1.85:1 because it doesn't use anamorphic lenses. Since it refers to spherical lenses, Super 35 ( originally called Superscope) could come under that, but this allows a number of aspect ratios ( in film 1.85 or 2:39 using a common top).

"Dirty" seems to be used as the opposite to clean in lining up and blocking the shot. I've never heard anyone using it on a film set, unlike clean. However, "dirty" is usually more dramatic in framing,

Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?
 

Well I think after watching several movie scenes that may be similar to the shots I want, I think I will keep trying to download frameforge and hopefully it will work, so I can play around with it.

I think I am now leaning more towards 'flat', because, since my script is a horror thriller, there are fight scenes, and flat gives me more vertical space to work with in the fight scenes.

Flat also means less extras for the scenes you need crowded extras. Scope has it's advantages for looking good in certain wide shots, and being able to get real close in other shots, but I feel my two reasons for picking flat may be more important.