Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Generally DPs will keep the stop pretty much the same within a scene. I'm not sure how you're making these judgments, if it's based on looking at the DOF or what, since the scene is usually colour corrected to match.

You don't need to expose the car park brightly, it's all a matter of taste.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Of course not, but it’s free to talk about it. Can you imagine how many questions he would have if ever had the budget for lights? He can’t even buy the cheapest cinema camera and lenses. He only asking about the lights because he wants to use telephoto lens and small apertures.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Given the length of time spent discussing this scene, in the real world it would've been shot and the crew down the pub by now

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Oh it's just if I don't expose it enough then I might have noise though.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Well as far buying a cheap camera goes I have the Canon T2i, but I thought I should shoot on something better, rather than going for the cheapest, shouldn't I?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

As long as you don't increase the ISO too high , you won't have unacceptable noise in the blacks. Don't expose so you need to bring it up in post, having a good monitor correctly set up, should enable you to pretty much nail the correct exposure on the set.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

How about doing the shot with a drone - you could get some quite exciting stuff flying just above the cars and in front and behind the subject? Find somebody who has one and is safe and good, and try something more unusual?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Oh I thought a drone would cost more, and was trying to avoid a drone, cause I thought that would be best.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

I;m not sure why you have the what's best thought process. If this is a dramatic highlight to your film spend the money on it and save on the talking head scenes.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Oh okay, I just didn't think I need a drone, for a chase fight scene, in a parking garage, but maybe...

So since it was said before that this place would be too large light, and to shoot with the natural lighting available, does that mean I have to do that with every scene, to match? If I shoot with the light available, then the movie is going to look 'documentary style' in terms of lighting. But if all the other scenes are lit in a much more 'cinematic style', would that be inconsistent styles then, and the whole movie needs to be lit like it's natural lighting then?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Ryan - this cinematic style really isn't going to happen, is it? I think your attention to tiny detail and the panic to ensure absolute noise free images clouds the holistic approach. You have FAR more serious issues than the ones detailed here.

The drone idea was just something that popped into my head. Most of my ideas just suddenly occur to me, and most are rubbish, and I immediately discount them - but if the scene is vital, and exciting then like that Dirty Harry scene - the technicalities are secondary to the plot importance. If this character is being chased, then the excitement and edge of seat-ness comes from what's happening, not how it's shot. The drone idea mean that the subjects facial features would be easy to capture, and the ability to float and travel over obstructions that the subject cannot might work for you and be cheaper and easier to shoot. Drone image quality is not at all bad, and rarely is a limiting feature. Why not try it out and see what the results are?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Scenes stand alone, everyone knows what a car park looks like, so you can't diverge too much from that,

Here's how they did it in the "Ipcress File" with 50 ASA film,


You've got a lot more sensitivity than that, so it'll be easier for you.

Or "All the Presidents Men" 100ASA film

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Oh okay thanks. It's funny you brought up All the President's Men, I just watched that one for reference. But in that one, the characters are standing very still in one place of course, so it's easier. The other example, they are moving around a lot more. I could try do it like that, lighting wise, if that will work. In the examples, the lights are green in the background, but they used white lights for the foreground to separate.

Should I do that as well to create separation, or should I try to match the color of the lights already in the parking garage? If I use mostly natural lighting, than I will not have much light to separate with then?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Regarding the car park lights, it will depend on the colour space of your camera what way the these lights go, film will record the green in florescent lights. Video cameras were pretty blind to it in the past, although more modern cameras can be more sensitive to it.

You need to test the camera you will be using on the film i.e, not your current camera, unless that's the one you will be using.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Well done garage scenes. They again play to the location strengths. The darkness compliments the mood and purpose so they don’t try to light the entire garage. Instead they use strategically placed lights for the actors so you can see their face for dialogue parts. They also let the fluorescents be green.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Oh okay. Well in my parking garage scenario, it's a stand off between the police and villains, so the police have to be able to see down the parking garage, since that's where the villains are. I can let some parts be dark so they can hide though, but I want it to be more of a shooting stand off and chase, rather than a hide and seek game.

The lights for my location are daylight balanced, so they will show up blue, if the camera is on on a 3200 kelvin white balance.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Is the garage outside or undercover? Lighting (the real lighting) is unlikely to be 5600K or anything useful. However, shadows and contrast make the actual colour less important. Seeing everything bright and beautiful is nowhere as exciting as shadows.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Yep not everything has to be bright and beautiful, but the characters need to actually see more than what you in All The President's Men for mine I think.

The garage is indoors, but the natural lighting does illuminate more. If the shadowy ares were that large and that dark in real life, no one could see beyond 30 feet when they went to look for their cars. However, if I go with the real daylight balanced lighting, and just let it be blue, kind of like how All the President's Men, let it be green, the actors' skin is going to be magenta in the faces, but will that be okay?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Reality and how you film and light a scene in a feature film are two entirely different things. You're interested in drama, not assisting people to park their cars!

You can use gels to colour correct the lights on the actor's faces, assuming that you're not using the LED film lights that have a wide range of colour controls.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Oh okay, but I thought we were talking about the natural lights of the locations. Gels those?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

If the scene is lit by natural light, then if you need to light the spots that are in shadow, then they need to be the same colour as the natural light.

If any of the outside is direct sunlight and not cloudy day light, then the intensity of the direct light will be very bright, and trying to boost this will be tricky. This is drifting into one of those scenes that you just cannot do properly. If the car park has a roof, and real sunlight and real shadows the contrast ratio will be very high, so if you don't want these areas of darkness, sorting them out will be very difficult.

Me personally - I'd manage the shadows and use the sunlight. I'd accept any artificial light as exactly that - artificial and if it casts odd coloured shadows on the cast - well, it does in real life too. I certainly would not be trying to turn the location into a studio. Tinted light is everywhere and frankly, for what you're describing, why is it a problem? You're going to have more trouble with shooting in this location for an extended period with the light outside changing.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

If Ryan ever films this scene I can only imagine the deluge of problems and questions. And this time the problems might even be real not imagined. ;-)

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Gelling the lights in a car park is way beyond your means, but you can gel your film lights so that you don't have green on the faces.

Again, talk to your DP, because they're the one who has to do all this.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

What if he gelled the sun? :-p

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

I suspect the car park has mercury type lighting, which tends towards the daylight end of the spectrum. Ryan seems to be using "natural" incorrectly, implying light from the sun, rather than daylight colour temp. ambient lighting.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Oh sorry, by natural, I meant the lights that are already in the parking garage to begin. My mis-usage. Should I have used the term practical?

I could have my own lights be the white balanced ones, and have them be tungsten lights, but I am just wondering where to hide the lights in the wide shots of the parking garage. I could hide them behind the pillars, but wonder if it would look obvious that they are lights hidden behind the pillars, if that is where the brighter lights are coming from.\

Also when it came to those two movie examples what apertures were those shot at, in the parking garages?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Well there is only sunlight coming in into the entrance in one section of the parking garage. The rest of it is not lit by sunlight.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

When you say save on the talking head scenes, do you mean do not have as much camera movement during them in comparison?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Talking head scenes are the purely dialogue scenes, rather than the action ones.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

There's me answering questions on natural light suddenly realising Ryan doesn't mean natural light at all, but artificial light. What a waste of energy that was!

Ryan - do us a favour? If you want responses, try to at least get the questions right? We're used to you asking all kinds of random things, but at least spare some thought to checking what you are asking.

If you are set on the location, then practically, you will have to shoot available light only - which might be fine - but one or two sources on stands really won't work. 20 or 30 maybe?


I've just got a repeat job, because the client has come back to me again because the space is large and troublesome. Audio is a challenge, and light sources are multi colour temperature and not able to be matched. The first job really made me think a lot, but the eventual plan worked well, the sound was far more complicated to capture than everyone would think.

Can you try to ease back on advance planning where you can never do it properly because you're imagining problems and lacking experience to solve them, when you could just visit places, look around and then come up with good plans, that we could help find the flaw in - at the moment you have NO plans, and just imagine problems where often, they really don't exist.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Honestly every time Ryan starts asking questions about the next scene I can’t help but think how on earth is this guy going to film this? The lack of experience and knowledge is unsettling. He doesn’t own any lights or understand how to use them, or even speak intelligently on the subject. Underlying all that is all the other things that would go into filming it. It feels a kin to someone trying to learn how to fly a plane by asking questions on a forum. In addition to all that he withholds information. I could recommend lights but even a very minimal setup would cost a lot of money. It’s fine if he doesn’t have any money but what’s the point trying to give advice on the proper way a professional production would tackle such a scene. Same thing with the camera and lenses... We are basically trying to give advice to someone imagining what it would be like if he films his movie.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

But are you saying that I should put more money and camera movement into the action shots, rather than the talking heads one, is what I meant?

Sorry I used the wrong term. I will try to use the correct terms as best I can.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Sorry, I didn't intend to withhold information. What if I just stopped trying to concentrate so much on the cinematography and got a DP to do all this, and I just direct, without trying to worry so much about it. Let it be the DPs department. Would that be better?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Yes, since it's a thriller.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Okay thanks, that's what I thought too. I was thinking of keeping the camera very still in most of the dialogue scenes, but as long as it doesn't come off as too different or too cheap in comparison to the suspense filled scenes more.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

If you actually started out by giving us proper background information it would save a lot of time instead of trying to figure out why you’re ask specific questions. You should have just told you did test shots of the location, provided us stills or video...

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

I agree thrillers should be fast paced. The way it’s filmed should reflect this.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

For what reason have you decided to keep the camera still for the dialogue scenes? I just don't u8ndewrstand you. Have you not noticed that when dialogue scenes are critical, a static camera tends to not be used, because it can provide useful interest. In movies you often find the head stays centre frame and the camera moves left or right or even changes height as they talk. Static camera tends to shout news coverage. You take decisions in the most strange way I've ever come across.

You've asked many times if you should leave it to the DP, and you direct, would this be better? We always say better to get a DP and a Director because you have never ever determined where your skills lay. You often say it's organisation, or directing then in a later post say you are bad at organising and rubbish at directing. We also repeatedly query the status of your team - Director of Photography is not a title you just adopt because you're the guy who owns a camera, and owning a few lights doesn't mean you know about lighting. Having access to a washing machine doesn't mean you are head of wardrobe.

You are a film maker, with no budget, little equipment, lofty aims and a totally random method of doing it.

I cannot imagine thinking about a project 24/7 as you do, and then handing it to somebody who does not have this 'need' to get it done?

You got a martial arts video to shoot - and it was so simple, and probably half a days shooting. You wrecked it getting sidetracked into thinking you were making a movie. The reality was you didn't even shoot the training project in a way that guaranteed success.

Ryan = you really need to look at your success rate and progress and consider the facts. You change direction constantly. Have trouble explaining to others what you are doing and then walk away every time it gets hard. Have you ever looked at your clients who use you and thought long and hard at why they use you?
What would the credits say?
Ryan Wray - excellent director with effective interpersonal skills, gets on well with people and gets the best performance out of them.
or
Ryan Wray - always arrives on time, sometimes buys the coffee.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

I’m pretty sure this is I’m home all day, unemployed, need to keep busy type of project. I highly doubt anyone is getting hired. Either through necessity or suggestion, he has adopted roles such as director or screenwriter because they require no layout of money for equipment. His idea is plan out every detail, get funded, and hire everyone needed to produce it.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Hopefully, the "in comparison" will allow for camera movement, just less than in the chase scene.

Certainly, the amount of chat with people who are not directly involved with a production is way beyond what directors do. This seems to be a blow by blow procedure.