Sony FDR-AX100

[Bruce Dempsey]

sorry Not what I was asking
so you don't get a file? for editing other than capturing the hdmi etc

[Dave Blackhurst]

You don't have an option (that I could find) to output an HD file from the 4k internal to the camera. The HDMI downconverts automatically to whatever the display input accepts, but if you want to downrez a 4K file, you'd have to to that in "post". You can also crop/pan with pretty nice results.



A couple observations on the camera - I noticed while using the VF that you definitely see the RS/skew if you "fast pan" in 4k/30p. I found switching to the 1080/60p/50Mbps mode the RS/Skew was greatly reduced, comparable to the PJ760 I had sitting alongside. I'd have to say that to shoot the 4K/30p, you need to have good "traditional" camera technique for best results. Good in some ways, not in others, there will be times that "HD mode" will be "handy".

I also need to spend some time fiddling with the ND's and shutter speed in bright lighting - in lower indoor light, I didn't see the stutter that was very noticeable in bright sunlight (through the VF). Beginning to suspect that shutter speed may need to be watched carefully when shooting in 4K mode... but with the manual controls, that's not a big issue - really like how this is laid out, manual control will take a little bit to get memorized, but it's all there! Also figured out that the "my button" function allows you to select 3 "other" things you'd like immediate touch screen access too, and sets 'em on the left side of the LCD, pretty slick!

[Bruce Dempsey]

Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst

You don't have an option (that I could find) to output an HD file from the 4k internal to the camera. The HDMI downconverts automatically to whatever the display input accepts, but if you want to downrez a 4K file, you'd have to to that in "post". You can also crop/pan with pretty nice results.
!

tks Dave what I suspected With one card slot and no internal memory it stands to reason And it seems the usb out only pertains to files recorded in avchd.
I've a 1st gen i7 920 which pbobably wouldn't be up to the task of 4k so capturing the hdmi output at lower than 4k might be feasible albeit real time transfer but no different time wise than tape so again no big deal.
Well Dave without going out on a limb and being objectively subjective (lol) are the down rezzed moving pictures really worth all the extra aggrevation and expense? Will they (moms and dads) even notice the sharper/nicer video of little Suzie and Johnny?

[Dave Blackhurst]

USB is used for file transfer for AVCHD and the new higher bitrate XAVC S.

My 920 was feeling a little sluggish with 28Mbps AVCHD multicam, so I just replaced with 4770K, cost wasn't TOO bad, as I did everything as cheap as possible! I'm guessing a 4K capable video card might have helped the old 920, but my Windows install was WAY overdue for a refresh anyway! It isn't about capture, as it's "just" files, it's more about being able to play back in full 4K. You probably could "work with" the 4K XAVC S files, but I wanted to be able to actually display them.

They still typically look sharper than 1080 files on a 1080 display, so to that extent... yes they have additional "value" for certain subjects. The Pan/crop tests I fiddled with looked as good or perhaps even slightly "better" than 1080 when cropped. The camera will very much "fit" what I intended it for, it may or may not be for "everyone" - the casual shooter may not find the additional sharpness worth the challenges of camera stability and how motion "looks".

Here's my overall take so far - 30p is going to require careful shooting, and the 1080 high bitrate XAVC S mode may be preferable for some things. 4K seems to be equivalent to shooting 30 VERY crisp "stills" per second, the individual frames are tack sharp. The resulting video is also very very sharp, making 1080/60p look at least "a little soft".

We are quite early in the "4K' introduction, adoption is probably even earlier. I suspect it will come faster than the SD to HD transition, I'm just trying to stay ahead of it - most people will probably continue to be perfectly happy with "HD", and I can't complain, won't be upgrading "everything" anytime soon! But the added resolution serves a purpose for me, and I'm liking the overall results and "feel" of the camera.

Wait a while and costs will drop, they always do, and the "tech" will likely improve too... or live life on the bleeding edge, have some extra sharp footage "in the can"... neither choice is "wrong", IMO.

[Bruce Dempsey]

@Dave
you've used rx10 for video if I remember, how does its hd video stack up alongside the ax100.
In some ways hd video from the rx10 is like downsampled 5k i've read

[Noa Put]

My rx10 footage is not sharper then what my gh3 produces.

[Ken Ross]

Originally Posted by Bruce Dempsey

Will they (moms and dads) even notice the sharper/nicer video of little Suzie and Johnny?

If they don't, it's time to take Mom & Dad to the ophthalmologist.

We just got back from Baltimore and I was shooting some video in the harbor area. I first watched on my 64" plasma and it was a treat. But then I watched on my 28" 4K monitor and that was a whole other experience. Unreal.

[Dave Blackhurst]

Frankly I'll STILL be using the RX10 for video (waiting for 4K or at least high bitrate XAVC S, ala the RX100Mk3). As nice as the AX100 feels, I've grown comfortable with the size/weight/controls of the RX10 (and the pocketability when needed of the RX100!) and I like to shoot stills as well... together, the three cameras make a "system", at least for me, and I can grab whichever seems most appropriate, or the lot in a small sling bag. No "complaints" about video quality from them, make a good multicam set as well.


That said, let's see if I can find a way to describe the difference in video quality...

RX10, AX100 in 1080p = you are watching very good video. You feel like you are there.

AX100 in 4K = you are looking through a window. You ARE "there".

This is on a cheap-o 39" TV (4K display), a 24" monitor, and a 22" monitor (1080) - the "effect" is surprisingly consistent, even on a "low resolution" 1080 display. The AX100 is producing a very sharp detailed image (or 30 of them a second).

I suspect that the CODECs and resolution of "HD" are pretty much at the limit of sharpness, and when we see 4K, we're realizing that there is "more" possible. Not entirely sure why 4K downrezed to 1080 somehow produces additional sharpness...

Will the average viewer at an average viewing distance really grasp what they are seeing? I *think* the answer is yes, but then again I walk in on family watching the SD channels all the time, even after I broke down and upgraded to "HD" FiOS... so maybe it doesn't "matter" as much as we want it to?!

[Aaron Holmes]

Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst

Frankly I'll STILL be using the RX10 for video (waiting for 4K or at least high bitrate XAVC S, ala the RX100Mk3). As nice as the AX100 feels, I've grown comfortable with the size/weight/controls of the RX10 (and the pocketability when needed of the RX100!) and I like to shoot stills as well... together, the three cameras make a "system", at least for me, and I can grab whichever seems most appropriate, or the lot in a small sling bag. No "complaints" about video quality from them, make a good multicam set as well.

I expect an RX10 redux with XAVC S is imminent. I'll be happy to see AVCHD and its silly bitrate limitations in the rear-view mirror.

Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst

Not entirely sure why 4K downrezed to 1080 somehow produces additional sharpness...

I suspect that, in many cases, the additional sharpness is just aliasing produced by quick-n-dirty linear scaling algorithms. I'm still waiting on my AX100, but I look forward to playing with the scaling in Premiere. Of course, before running things back out to 4:2:0, 4K scaled to 1080 has a considerable chroma resolution advantage, but I don't expect to see that on Vimeo. :)

[Emmanuel Plakiotis]

Sony just announced an 1" sensor with 4K suitable for next year upgrade

4K 60p and even 20Mp 22fps

Sony IMX183CQJ 5K 25fps 4K 60fps CMOS Sensor:

[Darren Levine]

Originally Posted by Emmanuel Plakiotis

Sony just announced an 1" sensor with 4K suitable for next year upgrade

4K 60p and even 20Mp 22fps

Sony IMX183CQJ 5K 25fps 4K 60fps CMOS Sensor:

well, we'll see if the readout speed has been improved to reduce the RS

[Lawrence Bansbach]

Originally Posted by Emmanuel Plakiotis

Sony just announced an 1" sensor with 4K suitable for next year upgrade

4K 60p and even 20Mp 22fps

Sony IMX183CQJ 5K 25fps 4K 60fps CMOS Sensor:

I hope they develop a better sensor. As I see it, the problems are:

1. 4K is available only in 10-bit mode -- 12 bits (or greater) would be better.

2. No global shutter. Using a stacked desgn, Sony could put the global-shutter circuitry on another layer, something Alternative Vision already does.

3. 4K is windowed, effectively reducing the size of an already small sensor. The sensor should run at full resolution, oversampling the 4K for better post-de-Bayer luma resolution.

[Wacharapong Chiowanich]

If these specs are accurate I don't think this sensor will be available for sale to other OEMs until much later or will probably never be. The current 1" B-CMOS sensor could be relegated to an item for sale like many of the company's 1/2.3" chips then.

[Dave Blackhurst]

Hmmm, so this sensor could drop in to the existing RX/AX lines, and be a solid upgrade path for RX10Mk2 and AX200... fast moving tech! Sony isn't sitting still for long... and so far, I don't think they are "sharing" these 1" class sensors with other mfrs... they are busily creating a market niche around them with little or no competition.

[Cliff Totten]

Can anybody confirm that the AX100 can, in fact, output 4K (UHD) from it's HDMI port when it's not recording internally? (output 4K when "paused")

wondering if the new Atomos Shogun will work with the AX100 the same way it will work with the A7S.

CT