Planning of doing side-by-side comparison on FX1 and HC1

Thomas Smet · July 18th, 2005, 05:46 PM

In good lighting so far both cameras look pretty close to each other. I can see a little bit of a difference but then again I am a image quality freak and can notice dumb stuff like that. Wedding clients would never be able to tell the difference between the two.

Remember however that the controls on the HC1 are very much consumer which means you will kind of be restricted to auto mode and point and shoot. I'm sure you will have some level of control but not nearly as much as with the FX1.

In bad lighting I'm not sure right now. Kaku posted one nighttime clip and to me it didn't look very good. The color was dead and flat. Then again I haven't seen any dark FX1 footage to compare to. If you use a light during dark receptions you might be ok. Maybe Kaku can post some clips comparing both the FX1 and the HC1 in a dark environment with and without a camera light.

Kaku Ito · July 18th, 2005, 06:51 PM

John,

If you are not in hurry, I will do a shooting with an acoustic band in a restaurant (probably not much lighting) with FX1 and HC1, so you can see how well they merge.

John Stanley · July 18th, 2005, 07:11 PM

Thank you for the responses. I am not in a hurry, and I appreciate your posts on this. You're going above and beyond and everyone here appreciates it.
I am curious about just going with 2 HC1's, though. I am kind of a perfectionist, but I think I need to relax a little because I point out issues I see in footage I shot that other people don't seem to notice. I have been shooting with a Canon GL2 in the front of the church and a Sony Digital 8 camera in the back. You and I and eveyone on the forums can easily spot the difference when the angles are switched, but the people I show my weddings to don't notice until I point it out. And, even then, they say it looks fine. I need to get into the realm of making money and I only will feel confident enough to start charging very much if I have 2 good cameras. I want to go high def only, rather than just using the GL2 and FX1 or HC1. I may keep the GL2 as a 3rd camera for groom shots as a "just in case" angle.
Thanks.
- John

Kaku Ito · July 18th, 2005, 07:23 PM

For the use of Just in case angle, I use NV-GS400 in frame mode with the filmish curve, that so when I use the angle, it gives outside of the party feel. The frame mode remains bearable even with projecting it at 120inch screen.
Ofcourse I can't quite match the color well, but I use the difference as the effect.

But, I totally can see where you are coming from. If you can give up on controlling the cam with focus ring AND zoom ring, also some other controls like individual gain and f-stop, then HC might be just fine (in your case, you might wanna get one A1 and combine with HC1 for the subs).

John, what I can provide and the feedback I get here to learn more is so tremendous, this kind of highly meaningful community is not possible in Japanese internet community. I really appreciate Chris and other people run this site, first of all.

Lorin Thwaits · July 19th, 2005, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Stanley

...I only will feel confident enough to start charging very much if I have 2 good cameras...

Note that the HC1 is a really, REALLY small camera. So the percieved value of the customer may be much greater with the FX1, even if the resulting image is very similar between the two cameras. Although having two HC1s on-hand does mean two different angles. More shaky angles since it's tougher to hold it steady, and there's that slight "breathing" effect when you go hand-held. Still very usable. And attach lots of fancy crap to it (steadicam, lens hood, microphone, etc) and it will serve two purposes -- first to make folks say, "This guy really knows what he's doing", and also as more mass to keep the rig stable and the footage smoother.

Just my 2c.

-Lorin

Jung Kyu · July 24th, 2005, 07:13 PM

this is f900 clip

http://demod.dvico.com/hdtv/Australia_2.tp

http://demod.dvico.com/hdtv/Australia_1.tp

Wayne Morellini · July 31st, 2005, 01:49 AM

You would not believe it, I was walking up the city, Cairns, today in a hurry, and I passed by an Asian (Japanese I think) tourist carrying an HC1 on a tripod to do portable shoots (we don't have the cameras here yet) and he looked like one of the guys on one of the HC1 related pages. Unfortunately he couldn't speak very much english so I couldn't ask him about it.

Upon inspection, I found the styling of the lens shade and HC1 (especially black lens shade on silver body) looks less than desirable than in pictures. It looks a lot larger than pictures and comments would suggest, and looks big enough not to be awkward for slightly largish hands like mine.

Actually it is not the first time I have seen Japanese tourists carrying new models here before local release, so for anybody around tourist areas here it pays to keep an eye out for them.

Pierre Barberis · August 2nd, 2005, 07:32 AM

And VERY-VERY handy. Specialy , given its VERY light weight, it can be used with a lightweight tripod that would collapse under heavier cams.
The perfect combination might be to have one FX1/ZX1 AND one HC1...to keep your customers impressed and be ready for all situations :Outdoors+action with HC1, LowLight with FX1, and dual angles with both...

John Stanley · August 2nd, 2005, 07:56 AM

Does anybody know how the footage would mix with a GL2...as I limp into HDV one camera at a time? :)
Thanks,
- John

Fredrik-Larsson · August 2nd, 2005, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Stanley

Does anybody know how the footage would mix with a GL2...as I limp into HDV one camera at a time? :)
Thanks,
- John

You can always download the raw movies that is available on the web and play with them. If you need something specific I can probably go out and shoot it or see if I got it in stock already. As I mentioned in some other thread I intend to test my HC1 and a XL-2 to see how they mix together. Unfortunately my friend with the XL-2 is away for another four weeks so it's gonna take a while. :(

Douglas Spotted Eagle · August 2nd, 2005, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Smet

Does anybody know when the A1U is coming out or more information on the camera?

I'm not sure if the lens will be better or not. It was more of a hope than anything. Looking at your great samples you posted I really am having a hard time to tell the difference between the two when it comes to detail. Clearly the CMOS chip has more detail than the FX1/Z1 chips but a much lower quality lens so it seems to come out the same in the end. Which in a way I guess is nice because with decent lighting conditions you really could use the new AC1 and A1U as a second camera to edit with FX1/Z1 footage.

The A1 handles low light a fair bit better than the Z1/FX1, I shot in near blackout, and with nightshot enabled, I could see things in camera, that I couldn't see with my eyes.
My review of the A1 should be here sometime soon, or you can read it on the VASST site.

Andre De Clercq · August 7th, 2005, 08:07 AM

HC1 looks appealing, maybe not the top for low light sensitivity but probably acceptable. How the window and level mapping affects image quality for low light scenes, and how good the rolling shutter performs with high shutter setting and fast moving edges still puzzles me. Could somebody shoot e.g. a continious grayscale in low light conditions (at high gain setting), and also shoot some fast moving, vertical and horizontal bars in high shutterspeed mode? Thanks

July 24th, 2005, 07:13 PM	#96
Jung Kyu Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 143	f900 this is f900 clip http://demod.dvico.com/hdtv/Australia_2.tp http://demod.dvico.com/hdtv/Australia_1.tp

August 2nd, 2005, 07:32 AM	#98
Pierre Barberis Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: MANILA Philippines Posts: 117	It IS ACTUALLY smaller than Pictures let think... And VERY-VERY handy. Specialy , given its VERY light weight, it can be used with a lightweight tripod that would collapse under heavier cams. The perfect combination might be to have one FX1/ZX1 AND one HC1...to keep your customers impressed and be ready for all situations :Outdoors+action with HC1, LowLight with FX1, and dual angles with both...

July 18th, 2005, 05:46 PM	#91
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	In good lighting so far both cameras look pretty close to each other. I can see a little bit of a difference but then again I am a image quality freak and can notice dumb stuff like that. Wedding clients would never be able to tell the difference between the two. Remember however that the controls on the HC1 are very much consumer which means you will kind of be restricted to auto mode and point and shoot. I'm sure you will have some level of control but not nearly as much as with the FX1. In bad lighting I'm not sure right now. Kaku posted one nighttime clip and to me it didn't look very good. The color was dead and flat. Then again I haven't seen any dark FX1 footage to compare to. If you use a light during dark receptions you might be ok. Maybe Kaku can post some clips comparing both the FX1 and the HC1 in a dark environment with and without a camera light.

July 18th, 2005, 06:51 PM	#92
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	John, If you are not in hurry, I will do a shooting with an acoustic band in a restaurant (probably not much lighting) with FX1 and HC1, so you can see how well they merge.

July 18th, 2005, 07:11 PM	#93
John Stanley Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 54	Thank you for the responses. I am not in a hurry, and I appreciate your posts on this. You're going above and beyond and everyone here appreciates it. I am curious about just going with 2 HC1's, though. I am kind of a perfectionist, but I think I need to relax a little because I point out issues I see in footage I shot that other people don't seem to notice. I have been shooting with a Canon GL2 in the front of the church and a Sony Digital 8 camera in the back. You and I and eveyone on the forums can easily spot the difference when the angles are switched, but the people I show my weddings to don't notice until I point it out. And, even then, they say it looks fine. I need to get into the realm of making money and I only will feel confident enough to start charging very much if I have 2 good cameras. I want to go high def only, rather than just using the GL2 and FX1 or HC1. I may keep the GL2 as a 3rd camera for groom shots as a "just in case" angle. Thanks. - John

July 18th, 2005, 07:23 PM	#94
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	For the use of Just in case angle, I use NV-GS400 in frame mode with the filmish curve, that so when I use the angle, it gives outside of the party feel. The frame mode remains bearable even with projecting it at 120inch screen. Ofcourse I can't quite match the color well, but I use the difference as the effect. But, I totally can see where you are coming from. If you can give up on controlling the cam with focus ring AND zoom ring, also some other controls like individual gain and f-stop, then HC might be just fine (in your case, you might wanna get one A1 and combine with HC1 for the subs). John, what I can provide and the feedback I get here to learn more is so tremendous, this kind of highly meaningful community is not possible in Japanese internet community. I really appreciate Chris and other people run this site, first of all.

July 31st, 2005, 01:49 AM	#97
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	You would not believe it, I was walking up the city, Cairns, today in a hurry, and I passed by an Asian (Japanese I think) tourist carrying an HC1 on a tripod to do portable shoots (we don't have the cameras here yet) and he looked like one of the guys on one of the HC1 related pages. Unfortunately he couldn't speak very much english so I couldn't ask him about it. Upon inspection, I found the styling of the lens shade and HC1 (especially black lens shade on silver body) looks less than desirable than in pictures. It looks a lot larger than pictures and comments would suggest, and looks big enough not to be awkward for slightly largish hands like mine. Actually it is not the first time I have seen Japanese tourists carrying new models here before local release, so for anybody around tourist areas here it pays to keep an eye out for them.

August 2nd, 2005, 07:56 AM	#99
John Stanley Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 54	Does anybody know how the footage would mix with a GL2...as I limp into HDV one camera at a time? :) Thanks, - John

August 7th, 2005, 08:07 AM	#102
Andre De Clercq Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 804	HC1 looks appealing, maybe not the top for low light sensitivity but probably acceptable. How the window and level mapping affects image quality for low light scenes, and how good the rolling shutter performs with high shutter setting and fast moving edges still puzzles me. Could somebody shoot e.g. a continious grayscale in low light conditions (at high gain setting), and also shoot some fast moving, vertical and horizontal bars in high shutterspeed mode? Thanks