Sony Z1 and FX1 various questions 2004

Neil Fisher · September 9th, 2004, 02:50 PM

surprise

http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/ser...ductId=1000282

Jeff Donald · September 9th, 2004, 02:55 PM

Thanks for posting Neil. There are already several posts on this topic. Here is one for your reading enjoyment.

Ben Buie · September 12th, 2004, 02:55 PM

Just wanted to post my thoughts about this . . .

MPEG2 is a much more efficient (i.e., quality per Mb) compression than DV and its cousins (DVCPro50, DVCPro HD, HDCAM, etc.).

For example, MPEG2 at 8Mbps looks just as good as DV at 25Mbps.

DV wasn't chosen because it was necessarily the most efficient compression method, it was chosen because it was a very efficient in editing. That was of primary importance when computers had not even broken the 1GHZ barrier yet.

I don't think many people will argue that point.

Having said that, wouldn't it make sense that if HDCAM looks great at 100 Mbps, that HDV at 25 Mbps should be pretty dang close?

Just remember when comparing bitrates between formats you aren't necessarily comparing apples to apples.

Ben

Graeme Nattress · September 12th, 2004, 03:47 PM

Comparing codecs, especially bit rates of MPEG2 based ones is very, very tricky. DVD's are usually encoded with 2 pass VBR with a 15 frame GOP, and even then, you'll see artifacts. I don't see the full DVD MPEG bandwidth as being transparent to the source.

HDV is using a 6 frame GOP, so it won't be as efficient as the MPEG2 used for DVDs, but it's also a higher bit rate, and also a higher image resolution, which probably means it will get greater efficiency.

Also, hollywood movie DVDs are often encoded as 24p progressive, which again, is going to give you more efficiency over encoding 30p or 60i.

So not only can you not compare apples to oranges, but you can't even compare types of oranges easily.

The proof, they say, is in the pudding, which means getting an FX-1 in your hands and seeing what the image looks like and moves like, and if there are issues, what can be done to get around them, just as we learned to get around the issues with DV.

Graeme

John Jay · September 13th, 2004, 07:14 PM

Any info re FX1 RGB output

what format & bandwidth?

please anything you find out post here

Greg Harris · September 16th, 2004, 06:32 AM

in regular DV mode which cam do you guys think will come out on top. I think dvx will because its progressive scan. I would like to see test shots of the 2 cameras take of the same things so we can compare them.

Heath McKnight · September 16th, 2004, 09:21 AM

That's probably a debate best left to when the camera comes out. Specs say a lot, but the visual says much more.

heath

Greg Harris · September 17th, 2004, 06:09 AM

I thought it was like $3,700????

http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/ser...ductId=1000282

Rob Lohman · September 17th, 2004, 06:41 AM

Since that site is in Canada I presume those are CANADIAN
dollars, not US. So that should be around $4125 US.

Difference is probably in tax and import and such.

Jeff Patnaude · September 17th, 2004, 09:01 AM

Question-
I'm using FCP 4.0...
would I be able to use Lumier to import the Sony HDV cam footage to edit on my mac?
It sounded like Sony is using a different codec.

Thanks,

Jeff P

Greg Harris · September 20th, 2004, 09:07 AM

How many pixels will the DV part of this camera have? Also, do you think it will be better than the DVX. I have the DVX100 and i think it is the most AMAZING picture.

Ed Szarleta · September 27th, 2004, 03:48 PM

Anyone know if this simulated 24P mode can be use in SD mode?

Heath McKnight · September 27th, 2004, 04:14 PM

Not yet on my front.

hwm

John Jay · September 28th, 2004, 09:44 AM

Sony Japan site mentions that the LSI is programmed in the C language.

I wonder whether there will be downstream 3rd Party support for this camera such as improved encoding and other goodies and even updates?

could this be the birth of a camera with open architecture?

Frederic Lumiere · September 30th, 2004, 11:38 PM

Here's a few links I found about the FX1.

Interesting photos and videos:

http://homepage.mac.com/homp/santen/iMovieTheater4.html

http://members.stvnet.home.ne.jp/xtw/index.html

http://www.geocities.jp/gyvsvx/HDRFX1.html

http://ascii24.com/news/i/hard/artic...51470-000.html

September 9th, 2004, 02:50 PM	#1
Neil Fisher Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Saskatoon SK Canada Posts: 136	new sony 3ccd hdv surprise http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/ser...ductId=1000282 __________________ neilfisher.com

September 9th, 2004, 02:55 PM	#2
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Thanks for posting Neil. There are already several posts on this topic. Here is one for your reading enjoyment. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

September 12th, 2004, 02:55 PM	#3
Ben Buie Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 184	HDV Bandwidth - is it really an issue? Just wanted to post my thoughts about this . . . MPEG2 is a much more efficient (i.e., quality per Mb) compression than DV and its cousins (DVCPro50, DVCPro HD, HDCAM, etc.). For example, MPEG2 at 8Mbps looks just as good as DV at 25Mbps. DV wasn't chosen because it was necessarily the most efficient compression method, it was chosen because it was a very efficient in editing. That was of primary importance when computers had not even broken the 1GHZ barrier yet. I don't think many people will argue that point. Having said that, wouldn't it make sense that if HDCAM looks great at 100 Mbps, that HDV at 25 Mbps should be pretty dang close? Just remember when comparing bitrates between formats you aren't necessarily comparing apples to apples. Ben __________________ Ben Buie, Producer "On Our Way Up" - Shot Completely in HDV http://www.onourwayup.com HD Articles and Reviews at HDSource! http://hdsource.highlydef.com

September 12th, 2004, 03:47 PM	#4
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,365	Comparing codecs, especially bit rates of MPEG2 based ones is very, very tricky. DVD's are usually encoded with 2 pass VBR with a 15 frame GOP, and even then, you'll see artifacts. I don't see the full DVD MPEG bandwidth as being transparent to the source. HDV is using a 6 frame GOP, so it won't be as efficient as the MPEG2 used for DVDs, but it's also a higher bit rate, and also a higher image resolution, which probably means it will get greater efficiency. Also, hollywood movie DVDs are often encoded as 24p progressive, which again, is going to give you more efficiency over encoding 30p or 60i. So not only can you not compare apples to oranges, but you can't even compare types of oranges easily. The proof, they say, is in the pudding, which means getting an FX-1 in your hands and seeing what the image looks like and moves like, and if there are issues, what can be done to get around them, just as we learned to get around the issues with DV. Graeme __________________ www.nattress.com - filters for FCP

September 13th, 2004, 07:14 PM	#5
John Jay Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: US & THEM Posts: 827	Sony Z1 and FX1 various questions 2004 - 2005 Any info re FX1 RGB output what format & bandwidth? please anything you find out post here __________________ John Jay Beware *PLUGGER-BYTES*

September 16th, 2004, 06:32 AM	#6
Greg Harris Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 356	DVX100 vs. HDR-FX1 in regular DV mode which cam do you guys think will come out on top. I think dvx will because its progressive scan. I would like to see test shots of the 2 cameras take of the same things so we can compare them.

September 16th, 2004, 09:21 AM	#7
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	That's probably a debate best left to when the camera comes out. Specs say a lot, but the visual says much more. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

September 17th, 2004, 06:09 AM	#8
Greg Harris Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 356	$5,000.00? I thought it was like $3,700???? http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/ser...ductId=1000282

September 17th, 2004, 06:41 AM	#9
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Since that site is in Canada I presume those are CANADIAN dollars, not US. So that should be around $4125 US. Difference is probably in tax and import and such. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

September 17th, 2004, 09:01 AM	#10
Jeff Patnaude Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Duluth, Georgia Posts: 248	Will Lumier Import with FCP? Question- I'm using FCP 4.0... would I be able to use Lumier to import the Sony HDV cam footage to edit on my mac? It sounded like Sony is using a different codec. Thanks, Jeff P

September 20th, 2004, 09:07 AM	#11
Greg Harris Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 356	FDR-FX1 Mini DV How many pixels will the DV part of this camera have? Also, do you think it will be better than the DVX. I have the DVX100 and i think it is the most AMAZING picture.

September 27th, 2004, 03:48 PM	#12
Ed Szarleta Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 156	24P Cinema Mode in SD Anyone know if this simulated 24P mode can be use in SD mode?

September 27th, 2004, 04:14 PM	#13
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Not yet on my front. hwm __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

September 28th, 2004, 09:44 AM	#14
John Jay Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: US & THEM Posts: 827	Lets talk about the LSI Sony Japan site mentions that the LSI is programmed in the C language. I wonder whether there will be downstream 3rd Party support for this camera such as improved encoding and other goodies and even updates? could this be the birth of a camera with open architecture? __________________ John Jay Beware *PLUGGER-BYTES*

September 30th, 2004, 11:38 PM	#15
Frederic Lumiere Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Point Pleasant, NJ Posts: 437	Interesting FX1 Links Here's a few links I found about the FX1. Interesting photos and videos: http://homepage.mac.com/homp/santen/iMovieTheater4.html http://members.stvnet.home.ne.jp/xtw/index.html http://www.geocities.jp/gyvsvx/HDRFX1.html http://ascii24.com/news/i/hard/artic...51470-000.html