re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

Don't know if this has been shown here but eventhough it's not the same camera I"m wondering if it is representative to the nex 50, here the full frame nex vg900 was tested (see "https://vimeo.com/53821829") and it came out not that good, I can't imagine that the nex 50 will be that better?

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

James, my understanding of gain vs stops is the same as yours.

I also think he's a bit "zoom" focused (and the title of the article admits that intent). I don't think the article thoroughly deals with the advantages/disadvantages in the comparison (but that may not have been his intent).

Generally lenses made for photography aren't designed for live zooming (breathing and aperture). Certainly some lens manufacturers are a bit more conscious of the demand but do expect to pay the price for it.

If you're an "event" shooter dealing with night or indoor weddings you can pretty much skip the stock lens IMHO. You're going to want the fastest lens you can afford and consider the great plus having 2x (near) lossless zoom. Keep in mind 2x is fairly small. It's enough for reframing shots a bit. The advantage of a zoom lens for an event shooter (IMHO) is that one has the option of being fairly wide when needed and being at the other end when shallow depth of field is more important. Trying to do that with a live (servo) zoom through on a budget . . . (well one can fantasize).

Of course zooming in for shallow depth of field when your fast lens becomes slower is a problem but it's also the reality. At that point is when you have to consider changing lenses so you have the right tool (lens choices) for the job.

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

Noa, I don't see how you can draw that conclusion. The VG900 and EA50 aren't related in components or target market. The VG900 is certainly not an EA50 with a larger sensor.

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

it's not a conclusion, just a question.

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

Hi Guys

Although video footage is always appreciated it always seems to be in the "backyard" so it's pretty tough to judge a camera on footage done at home (I'm also guilty BTW!!)

This is an event camera so has anyone actually used it for an event??? I'd love to see a wedding shot with this using the stock zoom ...Is it going to skew badly if you pan ..is moire going to be an issue???
A real on-site test will be 100X more useful than carefully done static shots

I would love the form factor for wedding shoots (and the weight too) but I have my own doubts on how the sensor would handle an event??

If anyone already has an EA50 please take it out into the real world and use it in a real situation with people and movement ...I'd love to see genuine results.

Chris

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

James: You are correct and 6db = 1 F-stop. I've requested a correction in the original article. Thanks for pointing it out.

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

Looks like the same guy has posted a more real world video using the EA50. Nothing special but there are pans, etc. Looks nice with "some" issues.

https://vimeo.com/53911957

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

I've seen better quality video done with an iPhone. That is the best he could do?

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

I'd like to see a side by side with a gh2 or gh3, just to see how it resolves detail, that seemed to be the bottleneck for the vg900 and I get the impression it is the same here.

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

I really didn't see any people in that video at all...?? Just trains 'n planes and buildings!! That's about the same use as a backyard video IMO. I'd still like to see an event shot with it.

Noa?? Why a comparison with a GH2 ?? It's basically the same sort of sensor ... I would rather just see how the camera handles weddings and events ... Do we really want to say that yes the GH2 is better/worse ....I simply want to see if the cam is a viable wedding camera or not.

Chris

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

In the video I linked to the vg900' the image was very soft compared to the gh2 or 3, I"m not saying the nex 50 suffers the same problem, but I would be surprised if Sony can do that better with this large sensor camera. That's why I like to see how this one performs compared to a gh2 or 3 or even better a vg900.

It's also not the same sensor as the vg900 is full frame but that apparantly is no guarantee for a good image. It's like the vg20, I have seen many crap like looking wedding videos (refering to image quality) and just a few that look good, I"m not that convinced anymore about image quality when it comes to Sony's new large sensor videocamera's.

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

Hi Noa

Couldn't agree more!!! I just thought BIG sensor great image awesome in low light...from what I have seen so far the little Panasonic AC-90 produces a far nicer image with it's tiny 1/4.7" backlit chips !!

Problem is I really like the Sony form factor and weight!! That's what sucked me in!!!

I have yet to be convinced !! The full frame of the new 900 in theory should blow everything away but it doesn't either !!! I can hadly see the EA50 being any better!

Chris

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

You also have to consider the nex50 is not a real schoudercamera, more like a semi one like the canon xl-h1. This means you have to carry all the weight in your hands, something to consider for longer continuous handheld registrations. In that way the Panasonic AC-90 might be even a better choice if you don't care that much about shallow dof.

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

Hi Noa

Good point !! Unless the shoulder pad is almost in the middle you never achieve a balance anyway...I cheat on the HMC82's ..I have a sprung rod up front going into a waist belt and that takes all the weight of the camera. You can mod any cam that has a front mount LCD (That's all Sony have done!!) just with a simple rail underneath and a shoulder pad and then a loupe on the LCD.

It is, still easier to get it all in one like Sony have done!!

Are you shooting with any big sensors?? Do you have a moire issue??

Chris

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

Yes and yes, I do have 2 videocamera's but also 2 dslr's (Canon 550d) and the moire on those can be very nasty if I"m shooting with a wide angle and deep dof and if there is fine detail (like rooftiles) in the background. I also think those first gen canon's are about as worse as it can get, every newer big sensor camera should be a bit better and some almost don't have any moire issues at all.

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

All these DSLR sensor based camcorders and DSLR's themselves are missing one absolutely critical function when it comes to get ParFocal operation: Back Focus adjustment.

As DSLR lenses don't have back focus adjustment it must be done on the camera. The F3 is the lowest cost s35mm camera with this ability. Without a means to adjust and correct for manufacturing tolerances, ear and tear, temperature etc it will be near impossible to get a lens completely par focal unless you want to start adding shims.

I found the EA50 to be 1.5 stops less sensitive than the FS100 for similar noise.

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

Alister, did you have to opportunity to compare the EA50 to Sony's full frame VG900 and how both compare imagewise? From what I read in your review you are impressed with the EA50 while others have nothing good to say about the vg900, I know they are different camera's but they are both large sensor camera's from the same supplier in the same price range and with the vg900 even being a full frame sensor I find it strange that it would perform that much worse?

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

OMG the VG 900 is crappy in Videmode to much trown away Pixel
Alaising like hell and Chromatic Abberation

more camcorders german test with more camcorders the VG900
http://www.slashcam.de/news/single/D...-We-10281.html

and weeping here...
http://www.palsomedia.com/vg900/

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

I have not tested the VG900 so can't comment. I was pleasantly surprised by the EA50. I thought it did a very good job for a camera based around a stills sensor.

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

From what I am reading here, Sony seems to have dropped the ball when it comes the EA50's low light capabilities, something crucial to me for weddings and other low light events. Unless I hear positive feedback on this front, I will wait till NAB in April to see if perhaps Sony updates the FS100 or comes out with yet another camera that may merge the best aspects of the EA50 and the FS100. We'll see.

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

Sony haven't dropped the ball at all, the reduced low light performance is simply the result of using a sensor with smaller pixels. When you use a sensor designed for high resolution stills, compared to a dedicated HD or even 4K video sensor the pixels will be much smaller and thus the camera will be less sensitive. The EA50 is built to a price point and a big part of the saving comes from using technology and parts from the mass consumer market. The EA50 is still better in low light than most small sensor cameras.

!!
 

Seems as if Sony took a few things from the NX5U too or the other cameras in the range. Being able to use the FMU128 is good since I use that all the time with my NX5U. I will certainly be interested to see how the low light compares to the NX5U which isn't the greatest in low light. I was looking for an upgrade to my NX5U to improve the noise level in low light to match my consumer cameras, get the touch controls of my CX700 etc and the NEX-EA50 seems to address most of these with the advantage of interchangeable lenses too. ! I am sure it would be possible to make it quite good in low light just not with the stock lens. One built from the FS100 would be better for me as I do not want to take any stills with the camera but I am sure if this was the case the consumer touch features I would like would not be included !!!

Ron Evans

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

How does it compare to a Canon 7d for low light?

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

Alister, you say "most"... which small sensor camera have better low light performance than EA50?

Besides ergonomics, is there a reason to get this over an FS100 for events? I guess maybe its a bit less expensive and has a servo zoom rocker on the side and handle which is nice. But its also 1.5 stops less sensitive than the FS100 and neither have an ND filter or HDSDI outputs. Oh, but I guess the EA50 also has a "near lossless" digital zoom which would conceivably extend the stock lens to a 400mm one. Hmm. Decisions. I too am starting to hope that come April 2013 at NAB, Sony will hopefully release another option in the similar price range.

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

copying from Wikipedia:
A change in power ratio by a factor of two is approximately a 3 dB change.


Meaning that one stop equals 3dB and not 6dB as you assume. In general even in sound, a difference of 3dB means either half or double the amount. The initial claim of 3stops between the 2 cameras is valid.

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

It's all very confusing, yes. However, I'm quite sure I'm right in that +6db = 1stop. I read that wiki page you quote...or tried to anyway (ha!), and it may have more to do with audio or when it refers to video its a bit different with "logs" and such. Regardless, however video works and without getting too crazy technical, I'm pretty sure +9db of video gain is 1.5 stops. See this article by video-pro Alister Chapman for reference:

What is ISO and how does it compare to gain? |

Cheers!

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

Thanks James

So even a two cameras one with a native iso of say 100 and one with one of 300 can produce the same image relative to IQ when noise is taken into account ??? Your ISO 300 camera might start off with a noisy picture yet the lower iso one might be squeaky clean!! The Panasonic AC-90 is a good example..It only has a native ISO of only 40 but you can add 30db of gain and still have a noise free image so the picture can actually look a lot better than a higher ISO camera that has a noisy image!!

Just for reference what is the native ISO of the EA50 with the stock lens???? The specs say "auto ISO" is 160 -1600 so does that mean the native ISO at 0db is 160???

Chris

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

Yes, it all comes down to how each camera handles noise at different ISO settings. Some cameras clearly handle gain better than others. I doubt the AC90 is completely noise-free at 30db, but it sounds like it's pretty dang good. Then again I've ready that the EA50 is also fairly noise-free at even higher ISO's. I'm not totally sure but I do believe that the EA50's is at 160 ISO at 0db, yes. Of course the stock lens that is used is the other factor that may drive that sensitivity down but the advantage is that you can switch it out for a faster one if needed. As for the auto iris question, I never use auto settings on cameras (maybe an occasional auto focus) so I'm not 100% certain (I'm saying that a lot these days) but I think that means that if you leave the camera on "auto ISO" it will go up to 1600. But I do know that in video mode, you can push it past that manually up to 5000 or 6400 ISO I believe. If you decide to use the camera to shoot stills it can go above 12000 ISO I believe. Again, this is from memory of what I read in the past but that's how I understand it.

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

Thanks James

I'd like to know how the EA50 with the stock lens and 12db gain would look like..Admitedly the AC-90 would need 24db to reach the same sensitivity as it's on a native ISO40 so at 24db is would effectively be ISO320 and to get to a 320 ISO the Sony only needs 12db gain BUT the 90 is absolutely squeaky clean at 24db so I would expect the EA50 to perform up to at least 24db with zero noise (double the 90's sensitivity since it costs twice as much!! ) Take a look at the posts on the wedding forum and there is an image there from Tim with the FX1000 and AC-90 side by side ...the 90 is running at 30db gain and it's tough to find much noise at all!!

I guess we will really only discover performances once people actually start using them??? I really do like it's form factor even though it's not really balanced..I'm sure you could hang a battery off the end plus a couple of audio receivers too.

Chris

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

The explanation for why 3db of gain represents a doubling of power in a loudspeaker yet it takes 6db of gain to represent the doubling of light (1 f-stop) in a camera is that the former is expressing power (P) while the latter is expressing voltage (E). Power is (E^2/R). The R is dropped since we assume output inpedance is equal to input inpedance.

In the former, gain is 10 log (Pin/Pout) db. In the latter, gain is 10 log (Eout/Ein)^2 db, which reduces to 20 log (Eout/Ein) db.

Therefore, 6db equals 1 f-stop.

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

B&H has had the Sony NEX-EA50 camera listed for Pre-Order for quite some time. For the last couple of weeks it was “in-stock”. Now it is back on pre-order again. They must have sold their initial allotment. Damn, by the time it is back in stock I may have my eye on something else with all of the new choices available. But I am a corporate event, run n gun, and interview guy. I really think the NEX-EA50 is my next acquisition. Like many of you on this board I am waiting for all the information I can get as there is not much available yet.

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

Does anyone think that the VG3O is the same camera without the XLRs and shoulder mount?

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

The VG30 can only record 60i, 60p and 24p, not 30p and no overseas formats. The EA50 can record 30p, which is my preference for the web and for low light (using 30 shutter when needed, low light looks great). The EA50 can also record numerous international formats, plus it looks like a professional camcorder. The VG20 can actually record 30p, but in 60i wrapper. Why Sony dropped this from the VG30, maybe someone else can answer. You get shotgun mic with the EA50 as well as tubular eyepiece, which comes in handy when outside. By the time you outfit the VG30 to be like the EA50, not much difference in price and you wind up with a consumer looking camcorder with added XLR adapter and shotgun mic, along with stripped down recording formats and not an ideal camcorder for filming in bright outdoors.

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

one thing id like to know is: the low light performance that is on B&H's website says 1.7 lux at 1/24th and auto iris. Is that with the bundled lenses? Or is that camera only and the bundled lense will bring it more like 5 or 6 lux?

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

Hi Randy

It only comes with the stock lens at this point in time so 1.75 lux is with autoiris AND autogain so to achieve that rating the gain could be 27db!!! Gosh I really expected it to be a lot more sensitive with such a big sensor!!! Most 1/3rd chip video cameras can easily achieve that with full gain at 1/50 or 1/60th shutter. My HMC82's are almost there with 1/4" chips if I run it at 1/24 or 1/25 and panning at that shutter is out of the question. I'm sure that it will be a wizard in low light with a manual F1.4 lens but with the stock lens you will struggle in low light I think!!

Bear in mind that the Panny AC-90 has clean gain almost up to 30db but a fast lens (F1.5) and is half the price of the Sony. Now if it came with the stock lens AND a second zoom at F1.4 that could autofocus then it might be worth over $4K .. B&H have reduced the pre-order price now to $4200 from $4800

I am at the point where I would still rather have two AC-90's and I would still have some change in my pocket!!

Chris

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

The pana ac90 iso rating is 40, so 30db gain and a f1.5 lens don't make it a light sensitive camera, the big advantage the panasonic has is that you hardly see grain at these high gain values. The Sony cx 7xx series f.i. and also the Canon hf g10 type of camera's are a better choice if low light performance is what you are after.

Chris: A bit off topic but I thought you wanted to see a pana in action at a wedding? below I found what seems to be a wedding done with it.

"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GWPGNJxPnU"

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

I'll be able to get this info straight from the horse's mouth on Monday next week, but from what I know already the HDMI output is 4:2:2 at 8 bit just like NEX-FS series and VG series.

The Tap-to-focus system is limited to E-mount lenses. Alpha lenses do things in a different way with the LE-EA2.

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

Hi Noa

Yep, I realise that the AC-90 has a lot lower rating than the EA-50 which will have a much higher iso even with the stock lens! I would love to know what sort of sensitivity one would get at a wedding reception dropping the stock lens and snapping on a Sony 50mm F1.8 ....You still have the facility of the internal 2X zoom so it might be quite manageable at a dim and dark wedding ??

Tim did a wedding on Saturday with the AC-90 so I'm eager to see how it coped at the reception.

Shucks!! I still really do like the EA50 form factor though cos I'm a shoulder mount person BUT I would still have to budget for a second fast lens for receptions I feel????

Thanks for the link ..it was a birthday 16th called a "quincerca" or something not a wedding!!

I would really love to see an EA-50 wedding though! It might just sway me!!

Chris

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

Although I really like the direction Sony is heading with this camera, unless you need a new camera right now, it might be a good idea to wait until NAB in April to see if Sony updates FS100 with 2x rocker zoom or comes out with similar, but improved model. From what I am reading, FS100 is much better in low light and its sensor is designed more for cinema; the one on the EA50 has smaller pixels and is really a still photo sensor. (Of course, the same can be said for most DSLR's that shoot video; some are better in low light than others). If your primary concern is low light performance, but you want the form factor of NEX-EA50, why rush into a purchase for the winter months when something that may be perfect low light, shallow Dof, run and gun camcorder might be just around the corner? Of course, the EA50 is cheap right now for what it can do and no camera is perfect. What to do...what to do...

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 

I think im going to drive to NY at the end of the month and get my hands on one. I want to put it up against my AG-150s. Specs can only tell you so much.