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-   -   New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-nex-ea50-all-variants/510053-new-sony-nex-ea50eh-announcement.html)

Paul Rickford August 17th, 2012 01:02 AM

New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
NEX-EA50EH (NEXEA50EH) : Product Overview : Sony Professional

At Last a Large APS-C sensor Run and Gun with zoom lens.

Tom Bostick August 17th, 2012 01:22 AM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
oooooooooooo i want to know more!

if it has built in nd filters then its really exciting

I wonder if Alister has had the chance to play with one yet?

Matt Davis August 17th, 2012 02:18 AM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Not to put a downer on things, but it's less than GBP3k:

1) No NDs
2) No stills in video mode (must switch modes)
3) Image quality not quite FS100 - there will be aliasing

At its heart, it's related closer to the VG20 than to the FS100.

But of course the form factor looks great - put the FS700 internals in the EA50 body and call it the 750? Please Sony?

Paul Rickford August 17th, 2012 02:27 AM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
NEX-EA50 NXCAM Camcorder: Product Introduction Video : Sony Professional


Here's the Promo Video

Andy Wilkinson August 17th, 2012 04:48 AM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Oh no, not yet another proprietary memory card format from Sony!

The slide out shoulder mount looks like a good feature - albeit the whole cam looks a bit flimsy on the demo video. If the image quality is nearer to the VG20 (I don't know if it is or not) and there is noticeable aliasing then I certainly won't be getting too excited by the announcement of this cam.

Matt Davis August 17th, 2012 05:02 AM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
+1 @Andy - I was told deffo NOT FS100 quality, no free lunches and all that. I don't think this was ever planned to be 'our camera'. I do hang out over at Mr Bloom's forum where there's lots of people who just reiterate over and over again that the FS100 is out of their reach and even S/H is a bit of a struggle. This plops it bang in the DSLR category and the Event Videographers who need something a little bulkier to stand out from the crowd to get their shots.

However, if they were to put an FS700 in that body... (says he, about to pull the trigger on a shoulder mount system). Who needs an EVF, Tilta rig et al with this style? I loved the JVC HD100, this has the same feel.

BTW, the card format - you can put either SDHC or MemoryStick Pro into its slot, ditto FS100/700. I'm up for the new mirroring memory stick for interviews and the like... check out the specs:

Sony Global - Memory cards - Mirroring Memory Stick

Piotr Wozniacki August 17th, 2012 05:02 AM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
OK, so it looks like the FS700 users will get something to play with for their zoom rocker :)

We the FS100 users don't have a zoom rocker, but this new announcement made me wonder if the servo zoom can be controlled with LANC (which we do have)... If all the electric connections are there already, a simple firmware upgrade could actually make it happen!

Matt Davis August 17th, 2012 05:04 AM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
I still have my Zoe Bebob LANC controller for Z1, apparently those will work! (inc Variable speed zoom).

Piotr Wozniacki August 17th, 2012 05:08 AM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
And I long sold away my 2 Manfrotto LANC controllers - one integrated tripod handle, and a clamp-on:(

BUT, if it turns to be true, the cost of a new controller will only slightly increase that of a new servo zoom lens (of course, I'm talking about some really fast one - not the F3.5-6.3)...

Piotr Wozniacki August 17th, 2012 05:15 AM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
According to Alister here: New Sony NEX-EA50EH shoulder mount 35mm camcorder. Power Zoom lens for FS100 and FS700 |,

- no need for the LANC (but one can be handy, nevertheless)!

Andy Wilkinson August 17th, 2012 05:18 AM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
OK, if you can use SDHC cards then that's not so bad then. Thanks for clarifying that Matt.

Glen Vandermolen August 17th, 2012 05:58 AM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
I've heard the rumor of this camera, I just didn't expect it so soon. The zoom lens is the most intriguing thing about it - according to Alister, it has a small zoom rocker built it (I can't make it out in the pics). That'd be perfect for my FS100.
Actually, this might just replace my FS100. The form factor is a lot better. I don't shoot any broadcast video with my FS, so a slight degradation of the video isn't that bad. It's still more optimized for video as compared to the NEX-5N.

Matt Davis August 17th, 2012 06:14 AM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Glen - the EA50 has the NEX-5N genes, so you're going to see VG20 style aliasing on near-horizontals. I'm holding onto my FS100 and continuing to invest in its shoulder mount. But yes, this form factor is very good.

The small zoom rocker 'may be' a fixed speed or two speed switch, not a variable control like a LANC controller. OTOH, maybe there's some ramping in the software with a soft start and stop - that could be enough for some.

Alister Chapman demonstrated the other end of this scale yesterday - a full-on broadcast ENG lens with its zoom controller powered off a V-lock (yes, mounted to an FS100/700). You get the range, the par-focal nature of a video lens, the DoF and the performance of an ENG (albeit with the doubler applied, so you're getting a 18x8 lens start at 24mm (2.4x magnification factor) up to super telephoto. Lens and adaptor can cost more than an FS700, so it's not for everyone - but... "!"

And consider this: what about software zoom? If you have a 4K sensor and you're shooting 1080p, even if it's a 2x zoom factor, that might be enough for an interview, and suddenly all your primes and non-parfocal zooms can do that 'creep-in' trick during an interview, or that slight adjustment to framing during a pan. All with super-clean accuracy and ramping beyond human control. Not as a replacement, but as an extra blade in the swiss-army-knife approach. A new brush in your paintpot.

But all this is conjecture. Just like 'tap focus' and 'face detection' was last year. :-)

Glen Vandermolen August 17th, 2012 06:24 AM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Mike - yeah, this is more of an super-VG20 than it is an FS100 replacement. Still, Alister says the video processing is better than the NEX-5N's, so there's a little hope.
I do like that form factor, though. If nothing else, I'll grab that zoom lens.

OK, I did see the power zoom switch on the new lens. It can be used on the FS100. Sweet! Better order the zoom lens while you can. I'll bet they'll be in short supply for a while, with all the FS100/700 users wanting one.

Lee Mullen August 17th, 2012 06:49 AM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Davis (Post 1748836)
Glen - the EA50 has the NEX-5N genes, so you're going to see VG20 style aliasing on near-horizontals.

How do you know this for sure Matt?

Noa Put August 17th, 2012 06:53 AM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Quote:

How do you know this for sure Matt?
He doesn't, it's all rumors untill someone get's his hand on the camera. I think it's going to be a popular camera with wedding- and event videographers considering it's pricepoint and it's the first "real" formfactor videocamera (compared to the fs100/700) with a large sensor, exchangeble lenzes and xlr, no need to trick out with overpriced accessories. If it performs imagewise Sony might have a winner but since they made no fuzz about it that doesn't sound promising :)

Cliff Totten August 17th, 2012 07:55 AM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
A 16mp photo camera sensor mounted in an ENG-style video camera?

I own several Sony cameras, one of which is a NEX VG20. I can understand a sensor like this in a consumer "Handycam". It DOES take great pictures and it's in a somewhat "practical" photography friendly hand-held body. However, video resolution is very "soft" even when compared to a Handycam CX760. Low light performance is great with a fast prime but moire artifacts badly hurt this camera sometimes. I use it for photos allot but I use it carefully for video and only for certain types of shots.

Why would Sony uses this sensor in a true video camera? This camera would have been PERFECT with the FS100's super35mm.

So very close,...yet so far!

I'm beside myself.

CT

If Alister gets this camera and points it at his resolution charts? Woah,....ouch!.

Dave Rochelle August 17th, 2012 08:17 AM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Davis (Post 1748825)
+1 @Andy - I was told deffo NOT FS100 quality, no free lunches and all that. I don't think this was ever planned to be 'our camera'. I do hang out over at Mr Bloom's forum where there's lots of people who just reiterate over and over again that the FS100 is out of their reach and even S/H is a bit of a struggle. This plops it bang in the DSLR category and the Event Videographers who need something a little bulkier to stand out from the crowd to get their shots.

However, if they were to put an FS700 in that body... (says he, about to pull the trigger on a shoulder mount system). Who needs an EVF, Tilta rig et al with this style? I loved the JVC HD100, this has the same feel.

BTW, the card format - you can put either SDHC or MemoryStick Pro into its slot, ditto FS100/700. I'm up for the new mirroring memory stick for interviews and the like... check out the specs:

Sony Global - Memory cards - Mirroring Memory Stick

Gotta say I thought the same thing at first - finally a newer-tech version of the HD100 I loved for years, but smaller & lighter-weight... but no built-in NDs is a non-starter for me.

I'm hoping either Sony will carry this form-factor over into the more pro line - something akin to what you describe as an FS700 in that body... and/or that Panasonic will unveil a AG-AF100 successor that has something in common with this form-factor for ergonomics & handling.

Ron Evans August 17th, 2012 08:24 AM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Wonder if we will get an update to the NX5U/AX2000 next.

Ron Evans

Alister Chapman August 17th, 2012 09:38 AM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put (Post 1748842)
He doesn't, it's all rumors untill someone get's his hand on the camera.

No, not rumour at all. Matt was at a product presentation hosted by a product manager from Sony where it was clearly stated that the sensor is the same APS-C sensor as the VG20/NEX5N with the same Optical Filter optimised for a stills camera and as a result similar aliasing and moire levels.

This is a budget camera, better suited to video than a 5D or other DSLR and with pro video features like XLR audio, shoulder mount, a decent well placed EVF etc normally only found on more expensive cameras and a new servo zoom (based on the 18-200mm E-mount kit lens) all for less than 3K. I know many that would probably pay the best part of that just for the lens.

Is it perfect, no, but then there is no such thing as a perfect camera because what's perfect for one person is not perfect for the next, but for many lower budget people I think this will be just what they are looking for. I can see it being very popular with wedding and event videographers as well as schools and colleges etc where they can buy 4 of these for the price of an F3 and getting the ultimate image quality is not paramount.

Noa Put August 17th, 2012 10:21 AM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Quote:

No, not rumour at all. Matt was at a product presentation
Ok, then I understand, I found it strange that without the camera being used or tested by anyone someone would know what artifacts the image would suffer from and how they compare to existing camera's.

Cliff Totten August 17th, 2012 10:33 AM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Because this is an "NXCAM" we must ask the per-release standard questions:

1.) Will you be able to control GAIN, IRIS and SHUTTER SPEED at the same time (Some Handycams allow this but not all NXCAMS today do)

2.) Will this camera have standard audio level meters with "db" values or the non-decrypt "pyramid" type that have no values. (Some Handycams have level meters, some NXCAMs have pyramid type.)

3.) Will the camera display "gain" values on the screen when shooting or only displayed during playback? (Some NXCAMS today do this)

CT

Chris Barcellos August 17th, 2012 11:00 AM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
When the VG20 came out, I bought it directly from Sony the day it was, based on specs Sony posted. As it turned out, those specs were wrong. While Sony said there were picture profiles on board, there were not. There is absolutely no way to adjust contrast, saturation, and sharpness. I was a vocal critic of that, but Sony did nothing to fix it.

Hopefully this camera has those adjustments. I note that in one of the close up pics I saw, there is a Profile button. Now if Sony doesn't disable the adjustments features in PF, all should be good. Sony, how about sending us FIrmware update on the VG20 so we have the same features 5n through this new camera.

Frankly, I don't consider the moire and aliasing issues of the VG20 to be a significant problem, though I recognize there are purists who accept nothing less that perfection, there are going to be trade offs to price points. You can shoot around obvious issues with that. Here is one wediding shoot I found quite nice, shot with the VG20.

https://vimeo.com/groups/115787/videos/47165658

Galen Rath August 17th, 2012 11:07 AM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
More interesting products from Sony, and thats great.

No camera will ever be perfect, but I wonder if the various departments at Sony are working in secret from each other, which prevents them from ever "getting it all together" in one package.

Ron Evans August 17th, 2012 11:30 AM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
It will be interesting to see if it has some of the automatic/semi auto modes of the consumer cameras that I find useful on XR500, CX700 etc like AE shift, touch spot focus etc. It has button for face tracking so I assume it may have all these features too. That would be useful in managing the shallower depth of field.

Ron Evans

Alister Chapman August 17th, 2012 01:28 PM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Moire is not a problem until the day the groom wears a suit with fine pin stripes or the brides dress has a fine pattern. Then you have a major problem with only one real cure and one work-around. Either shoot everything slightly out of focus or find a different camera.

I'm sure Sony could put everything into one package, best sensor, best codec, best ergonomics (for who?), best lens system etc. But it's not going to cost less than 3k GBP. That's the way of the world, same with cars, houses, computers etc. Why do people expect to pay bottom dollar, but get a top dollar camera? When you can only afford a Golf do you expect to be able to buy an Audi A8 for the same money?
This is the only large sensor shoulder mount camera currently on the market for less than 45k.

Noa Put August 17th, 2012 01:51 PM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Quote:

less than 45k
Was it not around 3K?

Don't know how the moire and aliasing from a VG20/NEX5 compares to a Canon 550d/7d, but if it would be equally worse then a grooms suite or a brides dress has not caused me problems so far but rooftiles have or certain fine pattern floors and walls with very small bricks and the moire can be quite nasty at times with wide angle lenzes.I have seen vg20 videos and it looks like it's not as bad as with Canon dslrs? I also read good things about the "Mosaic Engineering's optical anti-aliasing filter" for the 5d that seems to eliminate moire and aliasing considerably, wonder if that is applicable to other camera's suffering the same problem.

Chris Barcellos August 17th, 2012 02:25 PM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Noa, that filter is from Mosaic engineering, and yet it works well with the 5D. They have now developed one for the 7D, and the other DSLRs seem to be not far behind. The VG20 probably hasn't sold enough to warrant development, but I would like to see it.

I have been surprised that some things I thought would be a problem with the VG20 were not a problem at all.

Cliff Totten August 17th, 2012 04:05 PM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
I have a VG20 and lemme tell you, moire patterens are not ALL bad.

Sometimes the artifacts make a great "focus assist" tool.

CT ;-)

John Vincent August 17th, 2012 04:55 PM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
I love my VG-20 - it's a wildly unappreciated camera... That said, getting a few more buttons, control over sharpening/contrast (at least I assume it will have them), and 2 XLR inputs sure as heck isn't worth $3,000.

This new camera has the same sensor, same lack of built-in ND, same frame rates, same glass as the stock zoom lens. Oddly, it doesn't even have the VG20's dedicated eye piece view finder (rather using the same clunky FS100 method).

Looks quite a bit like the JVC GYU 100/et al line-up - which is good. I used to own one, and it def had a "wow" factor when you showed up with it. But again, hardly worth the huge up tick in price.

A side step at best, as I'm not sure why ENG gathers wouldn't use either Canon or other Sony cameras that have 50mbs/4:2:2 colour space - I'm guessing it's more of a form factor test run for the next gen of the FS100/700.

Matt Sharp August 17th, 2012 05:15 PM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
It's at B&H now, $4500.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/887069-REG/Sony_nex_ea50h_Sony_NEX_EA50_Camcorder_with.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Vincent (Post 1748924)
A side step at best, as I'm not sure why ENG gathers wouldn't use either Canon or other Sony cameras that have 50mbs/4:2:2 colour space - I'm guessing it's more of a form factor test run for the next gen of the FS100/700.

It's just a VG20 in a big package, much the same as the HD1000 and MC2000 were consumer cameras with giant bodies surrounding them. This time with a few actual pro features thankfully. The point of this is for wedding and other event videographers that want something that looks more professional. It's not the tool it's who's using it, but when the bride sees her special day being shot with handycams she might freak. That's the basic thought anyways.

John Vincent August 17th, 2012 06:01 PM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
It for sure delivers the "Wow" factor....

Yet many wedding guys have been using DSLRs for years now. When my VG20 is tricked out for action, no one questions that a "real movie" is being made.

Some will grab it up I'm sure, but why anyone would buy this over a FS100 (or a Canon XF105 for that matter) is beyond me.

Chris Barcellos August 17th, 2012 06:46 PM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
I think the "big camera" is more of a crutch for the insecure shooter than it is to please the client. That excuse should be dead everywhere by this point, and videographers should know how to deal with it. They should be selling their product based on the work they have done and do, not the size of their camera. As far as the client, its just a matter of education that skill and editing are what make the film, not the size of the rig. If your selling point is that you have a big camera, that won't last long in the industry if you don't have the skills to go with it.

Of course, the shoulder mount may be best form factor for the wedding shooter, and that may be the thought in rolling out this camera. I am not knocking that.

Tom Roper August 17th, 2012 07:02 PM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
unsubscribed...

Emmanuel Plakiotis August 17th, 2012 08:58 PM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
At $4500 is only $300 cheaper than FS100. Even if we assume that Fs100 with the same servo lens would be around $5000, the difference in price is not substantial. If the sensor is not optimized for video as its rumored and without HDSDI, it isn't really that good of a deal. Only the ergonomics look better.
Compared to the $700 A57($1000 with 18-135), which probably shares the same sensor and also sports inbody stabilization, seems a tad expensive as well.

If it was meant as a cheaper alternative of FS100, it should have been around $3500 max.

Matt Sharp August 17th, 2012 11:45 PM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Emmanuel Plakiotis (Post 1748945)
Compared to the $700 A57($1000 with 18-135), which probably shares the same sensor and also sports inbody stabilization, seems a tad expensive as well.

The A57 and all other current generation Sony SLTs only have IBIS in photo mode, in video mode they crop in an additional 1.24x and only use digital stabilization. Total crop for an APS-C SLT in video mode is effectively 1.86x, if you turn off steadyshot in video mode it does not eliminate the additional crop.

Piotr Wozniacki August 18th, 2012 12:58 AM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki (Post 1748829)
According to Alister here: New Sony NEX-EA50EH shoulder mount 35mm camcorder. Power Zoom lens for FS100 and FS700 |,

- no need for the LANC (but one can be handy, nevertheless)!

Well, it looks like the information on the zoom rocker being integrated with the lens is not accurate; it clearly belongs to the camera body:

Noa Put August 18th, 2012 01:48 AM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Not sure but if you look at the photos there's a button that looks like a zoom rocker on the side of the lens with a "t" and "w" printed, I suppose that's the second zoom function?

Piotr Wozniacki August 18th, 2012 01:55 AM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Yes - but this one is more a "lever" than a proper rocker...

In any case, with the FS100 a LANC controller will be essential (provided the camera has all the electrical connections in the lens mount ready for controlling the servo zoom motor)!

Lee Mullen August 18th, 2012 02:50 AM

re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alister Chapman (Post 1748871)
No, not rumour at all. Matt was at a product presentation hosted by a product manager from Sony where it was clearly stated that the sensor is the same APS-C sensor as the VG20/NEX5N with the same Optical Filter optimised for a stills camera and as a result similar aliasing and moire levels.

This is a budget camera, better suited to video than a 5D or other DSLR and with pro video features like XLR audio, shoulder mount, a decent well placed EVF etc normally only found on more expensive cameras and a new servo zoom (based on the 18-200mm E-mount kit lens) all for less than 3K. I know many that would probably pay the best part of that just for the lens.

Is it perfect, no, but then there is no such thing as a perfect camera because what's perfect for one person is not perfect for the next, but for many lower budget people I think this will be just what they are looking for. I can see it being very popular with wedding and event videographers as well as schools and colleges etc where they can buy 4 of these for the price of an F3 and getting the ultimate image quality is not paramount.

There is no perfect camera because manufacturers deliberately hold back in an obsolescence form. Crafty.


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