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-   -   New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-nex-ea50-all-variants/510053-new-sony-nex-ea50eh-announcement.html)

Jody Arnott December 24th, 2012 12:59 AM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Hi guys,

I'm thinking of getting the EA50 to replace my Canon XA10 as my main camera. I'm also looking for a cheaper backup camera that will produce a comparable image. Is the VG20 going to be the best option?

Or does anyone have any better suggestions?

Cheers for any info :)

Dmitri Zigany December 24th, 2012 01:52 AM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
I've done one shoot where I had a VG20 as the secondary angle to the EA50. Although, due to the VG20 almost being out of batteries it was set a bit wrong which caused some weirdness, the pictures worked well together. I guess a NEX5 would work too as an even cheaper option.
(See my first impressions thread, for more info and videos)

Noa Put December 24th, 2012 01:56 AM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
As far as I know the vg20 has a fixed picture profile meaning you have to tweak your ea50 image to match the vg20. That doesn't leave you with many options when shooting if you want to achieve a certain look in camera. Why don't you keep your xa10 as second camera? You have to consider that the ea50 can be compared with a dslr, the slow stock lens does give you some focus room to work with but once you start adding faster lenzes you"ll be happy you have one camera that can keep everything sharp front to back, a lot depends ofcourse what you will be shooting, for weddings f.i. I certainly would go for the nex50 and xa10 combo.

Jody Arnott December 24th, 2012 02:06 AM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Hmm I was thinking that but I thought the picture would have been too different due to the totally different sized sensors. Could be wrong..

Robert Moran December 25th, 2012 08:41 AM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
The 50 amd 20 are very closely matched as I have both and used both on a night time shoot a week ago. (Video will be forth coming.) The output of the 50 is better then the 20, especially in low light, as the support tech, as stated before in another post, is probably better then in the slighly older 20. The other thing that's interesting is the fact the still aspect ration now matchers the video in the 50, something not true in the 20. The 50's a beast but a good beast and the digital zoom is something that changes the game regarding primes and zooms because speed is not lost in using this tech. The system performs without issue and, when matched with the 20, the combination works without issue.

Last but not least, one finds that using primes extensively on a shoot becomes a no brainer thanks to the framing ability of the digital zoom.

Lee Berger December 25th, 2012 09:26 AM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
2 Attachment(s)
I did some tests with the digital zoom and the supplied 17-200mm lens. I shot fully zoomed in optically (200mm) and then added 2x digital (400mm). The fully zoomed in digital is soft and full of macroblock artifacts. To me it's not usable. I also did the test using the 50mm f1.8 prime with the same results. Image grabs from the 200mm test are attached.

Ron Evans December 25th, 2012 02:47 PM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Comparing the stills at the same size, in Photoshop , the digital version is more in focus and cleaner so it does a good job I think. I don't see any real problems other than some edges when blown up that would be acceptable I think in that regard both images look the same. What were the shooting parameters?

Ron Evans

Lee Berger December 25th, 2012 03:16 PM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Were you looking at both at 100% in Photoshop? If you blow the non-digital zoom photo up to the same size (200 %) then you only have 2 Mega Pixels to work with and it looks worse. If you keep both at 100% then the no digital zoom image is noticeably sharper. I expected the same results as you would get in zooming into a 14mp digital still or 2 to 4K video and that is not what I see. This is even more evident in the moving video.

Here is a YouTube version of the video
You can see that as I zoom in the image softens noticeably. I think that if I kept the focal length at 200mm and physically moved the camera in to the 400mm digital zoom framing then it would be noticeably sharper.

Robert Moran December 25th, 2012 04:45 PM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
I used the digital zoom extensively on a video I shot of carolers. No problem whatsoever.

Noa Put December 25th, 2012 05:20 PM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Eventhough it's compressed I do see a loss in resolution when it starts to zoom in, ugh, I really hope I won't have to wait too long for the camera, there are some more user videos appearing on vimeo and youtube and some look great and some not, I saw one yesterday where there where quite bad interlacing artifacts but I saw others where there practically was no sign of it. Now the same with this digital zoom, Robert says it's no issue while I do see issues in Lee's video. As soon as I get the camera I"m out for a whole day test-riding it so I can see for myself what it actually can or cannot do.

Ron Evans December 25th, 2012 07:55 PM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
I think some of the issue may be the fact there are no ND filters and it was a bright sunny day. I expect the iris was smaller than the sweet spot for the lens/sensor which would potentially cause the softness.

Ron Evans

Lee Berger December 25th, 2012 09:03 PM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
I ran the shutter up high enough to get between f6.5 and 8 which should be the sweet spot for this lens, but I'm not sure with this size sensor and a lens that goes up to f22. Here is another test I did this evening.
The first is using the 50mm lens and zooming in to 100mm digital
The second is with the camera moved in to approximate the 200mm digital zoomed image from the first clip

After this test, while I can see a difference, it may be slight enough to still make the digital zoom feature useful.

Chris Harding December 25th, 2012 11:41 PM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Hi Guys

I think that's purely a technical difference..show that to friends/neighbours/family and they won't even see it!! We tend to look for absolute perfection while the average viewer is just looking at content. I watch Reality shows on TV with obvious handheld cameras and see the space between the subjects head changing all the time ..real wobbly footage for us but my wife doesn't even see it..the same would be for a digital zoom!

It would be nice however to know where the sweet spot is for the camera .. that way an variable ND on the lens in bright sun will allow you to find a sweet spot and also control DOF up or down where required...where we are I think an ND just might be important. The 67mm Genus has been suggested but I cannot get those locally at present...but I can get Lightcraft Workshop also around the same price ..anyone used those?? EBay of course has tons of $20 ones!!

Chris

Noa Put December 26th, 2012 03:11 AM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Watch out with ebay ones, the ND filter is equally important as the lens itself, put a low quality filter in front of it and you will get image degradation no matter how good the camera and lens is. I have a 100 euro variable nd filter for my dslr and I see it has a negative effect on the image quality. For the nex ea50 I plan to get the best and probably most expensive filter I can find, I just need to figure out what type and how it will be fitted onto the stock lens. If possible I"ll attach these rubber lens hoods to the stock lens which allow a variable nd filter to be screwed onto it.

The problem with a lot of tests you see on the internet is that you don't know what settings the camera was at, I remember seeing videos from the nx5 where the image was clearly soft and later was found out the user forgot to apply the nd filter outside which led to diffraction and resulting soft focus. Therefore I"m so keen right now just to go out with the camera and put it under a series of demanding tests to see how bad the moire and diffraction really is, how much noise it has, how good the ois is, how accurate the autofocus is and how usable the digital zoom is. If possible I"ll try to find someone that is doing a wedding in January or February and try to go along just for test purpose in "the real world".

It's also the very first time I"m buying a camera that has just hit the streets and it has made me a bit nervous.

Ron Evans December 26th, 2012 08:08 AM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
The NX5U is very sensitive to settings. When I first got mine I was really disappointed with the image quality. My little Sony cams seemed much better. I was setting the iris at f4 to f5.6 thinking I would get better depth of field for the stage shows I shoot.Picture was very soft almost looked out of focus. I also found I had the anti flicker filter on as well as the macro mode ( both on by default !!!) I now get sharp video with iris between f2.8 and f4 even using ND filters to keep in this range depending on zoom. Since the NX5U lens ramps to f3.4 I often set iris around there and alter gain if needed. The NX5U picture definitely gets soft with iris at f 5.6 or smaller so I don't go there anymore. It may be that the EA50 is no different and needs picture profile settings etc to get the best from it.

Ron Evans

Chris Harding December 26th, 2012 08:08 AM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Hi Noa

I'll have mine in January so with a 2nd shooter she can do the cutaways on the HMC cam and I'll do shots on the EA50 so you can get an idea of what the camera can do and it won't affect my weddings at all as I'm still covering them with the Panasonics...With receptions I have plenty of free time to shoot events like dancing so I can alternate between the HMC and the EA-50.

I have two more this weekend with only the HMC's but I have six weddings in January where I can use both cameras so I should be able to generate a fair amount of varied footage!

Yeah I'll skip the $20 ebay ND's of course ..The Lightworks ND's are $100 ++ so they should be good!

Chris

Randy Johnson December 29th, 2012 09:08 PM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
I was thinking in a pinch couldnt you just kick up the shutter in situations where you would need a ND filter?

Chris Harding December 29th, 2012 09:46 PM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Hi Randy

The auto mode does that for you ..but the main issue would be that if it's really bright and sunny the camera might decide on 1/500th shutter and say, F11 which would tend to be out of the sweet spot for aperture....High shutter is not an issue if there is no action but if it's a fairly active scene then it's better to use a variable ND to pull down both shutter and iris ....No-one knows what the sweet spot on an APS-C sensor is yet but maybe it's a safe issue to keep it around the F6.8 are in that region ??

Chris

Jody Arnott December 29th, 2012 09:57 PM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Hey guys,

Would anyone that has the EA50 be able to measure the dimensions of box it came in?

Would be much appreciated!

Cheers

Dmitri Zigany December 30th, 2012 02:41 AM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
I just moved it down to the basement...
But take a look here:
Sony NEX-EA50EH (NEXEA50EH) NXCAM Large Format Sensor camcorder with E-mount lens system
Under specifications it says the box is 550 x 245 x 245 (mm).

Jody Arnott December 30th, 2012 04:54 AM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitri Zigany (Post 1770203)
I just moved it down to the basement...
But take a look here:
Sony NEX-EA50EH (NEXEA50EH) NXCAM Large Format Sensor camcorder with E-mount lens system
Under specifications it says the box is 550 x 245 x 245 (mm).

Fantastic, not too big then. Thanks for that :)

Peter Rush December 30th, 2012 09:06 AM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Annaouncement
 
Does anyone know of the viewfinder can rotate for getting high or low shots? being so used to this it would be a major issue - especially with not having ND filters - I may start to look elsewhere

Pete

Ed Betz December 30th, 2012 09:37 AM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Sure, you can rotate it up, down, around and in... No preolems

Joris Rens January 4th, 2013 06:09 AM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put (Post 1768930)
What will you be using the camera for?

Hi Noa, sorry it took so long to reply. I hardly got by reading the posts on this forum... Hopefully I'll have a bit more time to post as well.

I'm just a starter in the video world. I'm a graphic designer, but since many years I missed a 3rd dimension in those flat designs. I've always liked moving pictures much better, and whenever I did some cutting for video or added graphical effects to a video, I got very anxious. I love the medium, but didn't have the time to start working with it. Until now. I've started a course in video production since past summer and I'm starting on my first projects.

What I'm most interested in for the moment is low budget documercials, mostly for the web. So, a commercial documentary which tells you something about a product, person, company, service to get people interested in participating in some way... (Does what I write make sense?)

I'm mostly interested in the EA50 because it seems a versatile camera to me and not too pricey. I like the FS100/700 as well, but the ergonomics are not that great, and before you get them ready to film, you need at least twice the budget. AF101 was an option as well, but somehow the ergonomics of the EA50 seem better to me. The BMCC is also still interesting, but ergonomics are not so nice, I would need more stuff before I can film and... it's not available.

I'll probably buy an EA50 somewhere this month. Hope they will be available when the decision is final. Switserland will not be a good idea like you said, because of the import taxes. So maybe I'll go to Holland as well, or I might just stay a bit closer and go to ES broadcast. Who knows maybe they have one for rent in the next couple of weeks...

Did yours arrive already? I've just noticed there where no more posts in this thread for a week. Might be that everyone has got their EA50 and is busy making footage :-).

Joris

Chris Harding January 4th, 2013 07:57 AM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Not quite yet for me..Mine was ordered and paid for on 28th but has been delayed in transit.

Our stupid National Parcel Service decided to take off New Years eve (and New Years Day) so everything is delayed by at least 4 days now..technically mine should have arrived today but sadly it's still "in transit"

I'll also use the EA-50 for some Realty shoots which are inside and outside so I'll see how the lighter camera compares to my Panasonics which get awfully heavy after an hour so that might be a huge asset.

I think Noa mentioned that his supplier said next day delivery so he might just be out playing with his new toy!!

Chris

Noa Put January 4th, 2013 08:44 AM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Quote:

I think Noa mentioned that his supplier said next day delivery so he might just be out playing with his new toy!!
You bet I am :D

I have been just staring at it the past hours, don't dear to touch it yet.

It's quite a beast when I place my xh-a1 next to it, I think about 10 cms longer but wheight feels about the same. I was thinking previously to shorten the bazooka loupe but it looks that is not going to improve the ergonomics so it's best to leave it alone.

I think Sony fx1000/nx5 user will feel right at home, lot of controlls looke like the fx1000 my dad has.

Only the wheather suxs right now, it has been raining constantly the past days but the forecast for tommorow is no rain so I"ll go out and shoot then. In the meantime I have to figure where my wife will be sleeping this night as our bed won't fit us both and the camera, imagine she would roll onto it in her sleep . :)

I"m ordering a adapter today as well for my Samyang lenzes so I can play with that next week.

Noa Put January 4th, 2013 09:14 AM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Just shot my very first footage, some buildings from inside through a window as it still is raining a bit, first impression is that eventhough moire and aliasing are there, they are less noticeable then on my dslr but will know more tomorrow if the wheather permits, I"m taking my 550d along with the wide angle lens.

The power zoom is quite noisy but the digital zoom is completely silent, didn't Sony advertise it was visual lossless? Well you have to be blind not to see the image is taking a resolution hit, I can clearly see the image getting softer while I zoom in (and I was in focus). Will check especially with my Samyang primes what that gives as that is a unique feature.

I do like the image presets, I took the ITU709 preset which seems to have quite a lot of dynamic range, I prefer shooting as flat as possible so I can decide in post how it has to look.

Lee Berger January 4th, 2013 09:33 AM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put (Post 1771107)
The power zoom is quite noisy but the digital zoom is completely silent, didn't Sony advertise it was visual lossless? Well you have to be blind not to see the image is taking a resolution hit, I can clearly see the image getting softer while I zoom in (and I was in focus). Will check especially with my Samyang primes what that gives as that is a unique feature.

I noticed the same thing using the 50mm f1.8 prime and the kit zoom. To me the power zoom is virtually useless, especially at the start and stop. Even so, I still think this camera is a good value for it's intended market.

Noa Put January 4th, 2013 09:56 AM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Quote:

Even so, I still think this camera is a good value for it's intended market.
I did some more shooting in the house with gain up to 30db and it's not that more noisy then my 550d at 1600 iso that I use a lot so for me usable. The image I"m looking at right now of what I just shot looks pretty darn good, even with the slow lens I can get some very nice soft bokeh when I shot one of our cats up close, focussing is easy with peaking and the 4 or 8 times focus magnifier during recording is great and there is even a histogram.

My very early first impressions are realy good, I like a lot what I see so far.

Noa Put January 4th, 2013 12:16 PM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Joris Rens (Post 1771076)
So maybe I'll go to Holland as well, or I might just stay a bit closer and go to ES broadcast. Who knows maybe they have one for rent in the next couple of weeks...

I can definitely recommend "cameranu" in the Netherlands as they have a excellent service, I have to check beginning next week but I believe the camera comes with standard prime support meaning in case of a malfunction during warranty the camera will be picked up at your place and delivered back to you so then it doesn't matter where you buy and the camera comes with a 2 year warranty. This it what they told me in that Swiss store so I guess the same should apply here.

I"m going to stop talking about the camera now and start shooting, there has been enough said already, time to test the thing. :) Will post as soon as I have something decent online.

ps. I"m often in Heusden-Zolder which is just a 20 min drive for you, if you want to check out the camera just give me a sign if you want to drop by.

Steven Digges January 4th, 2013 01:38 PM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Hey Guys,
My EA50 is supposed to be here Tuesday, it IS enroot. I also wanted a new on camera light for it. I still use a ton of Lowell lights and a Coolux Tri-Light. Yes, I here you all giggle and squint as the hot spot hits you squarely between the eyes! But really, I do light interviews very well with my Lowell kits :)

My fly-away kits must get lighter so for my first LED experience I chose a VL312. I bought from Taky at L.A. Color, a DVINFO sponsor and I hear they have great customer service.

“VL312LED is a high power bi-color (3200K to 5600K) LED light in a 60 degree beam spread. With its variable color temperature and dimmable brightness output, VL312LED is a flexible and portable LED light either for on-camera or off-camera use. It is also suitable for both indoor and outdoor use. Two rotary knobs control the variable color temperature between 3200K to 5600K, and 10%-100% brightness”.

It is big for on camera, but that is will be OK, IF it does not vignette the corners (don’t know yet). And bright enough to mount on a stand, I hope. Picking a light to sit on the EA50 was tough. There are so many to choose from and many different feature sets.

But anyway, I am going to babble again. Since I was researching a new camera purchase the first thing I did was return to DVINFO after a hiatus in posting for several years. This site is where and how I decided on the EA50 because of all the great information here. To be quite honest, I have been in this business for so many years (since 1987, stills then video) I do not share the same level of excitement some of you guys have over new gear. They are tools to me, and first and foremost they must have a ROI. I love my work, the industry has been good to me. But coming here again and reading about everyone’s enthusiasm is also good for me, it is infectious and I need to be infected again. I am hoping the new EA50 will get me out to shoot something “just for fun again”. I am the guy that takes 50 pounds of gear on vacation and never opens the bag. Or when I did, my footage from last year’s 10 day RV vacation has never been looked at or touched.

I am explaining this to say thank you to Chris, Don, Noa, and a bunch of you other guys that have informed me and shared your enthusiasm with me. Maybe when the EA50 gets here I can shoot something fun and difficult for you, so that I can make a worthwhile post and you can see some footage from the camera. That fun and difficult shoot…..my chocolate Labrador Retriever, Maggie. It won’t pay well but it will beat shooting another famous physician talking about dissecting livers!

I hope I am not out of line by varying from the specifics of the topic with my wordy posts.

Steve

Chris Harding January 4th, 2013 05:40 PM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Hi Steve

The more we share the more we find and and get to grips with. Glad yours is in transit and hopefully it won't be in transit as long as mine has!!

Noa, of course I'm insanely jealous as you get to play and I don't! On the other hand we have magnificent weather today!! Nothing but blue skies. I'll be shooting my wedding today using the Panasonics only.

Nice to know that the image at 30db still looks acceptable too!! Once your weather clears up a bit go out and shoot and let's see some footage? I'll comment on the zoom etc etc once I have a camera to comment with!

Chris

Noa Put January 4th, 2013 05:57 PM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
the 30db test wasn't anything scientific, it did look good enough to me but I"d like to compare it with my cx730 and 550d to see how it holds up, I need to film in a situation I have to work in, like a darker venue but that's not possible the following months.

I only plan to post some more "serious" stuff and not just some handheld shots chasing my cats and dogs at home, we have a abandoned casino nearby my place of which I did a video in 2009 with my xh-a1, I might go there tomorrow if it continues to rain. It actually is not allowed to enter and it's kinda spooky, and not to mention dangerous, but it's a great location to shoot and good place to test dynamic range, low light, moire issues and so on and it's walking distance from my place.

Here's a low quality sample, it seems the original owner of the buidling ripped it from my blog a few years ago and posted it on youtube as I just found it by googling about the casino :)

Steven Digges January 4th, 2013 06:40 PM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
I loved the video! Not allowed, dangerous, and spooky.....I am there.... I would have a blast shooting in there with you. We could test both cameras and my new 312 light. That is the kind of fun I was talking about putting back into my shooting!

Steve

Chris Harding January 4th, 2013 07:22 PM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Good place for a horror movie or a crime movie..I was already expecting a dead body to appear.

Now I'm assuming that was the Canon footage..It will be nice to see what the Sony does especially with the red brick walls. I have plenty of Churches here that have patterned brick walls so that will test the moire quite well.

If your rain stops of course??

Chris

Ron Evans January 4th, 2013 07:34 PM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
I will be interested to see how it compares with your CX730 as my CX700 is better in really low light than my NX5U. Something like the performance of the CX700 with the controls of the NX5U as well as spot focus would be great.

Ron Evans

Don Bloom January 4th, 2013 09:35 PM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Steven, not to go OT here but I have one of the 312 lights (not from Taky but Amazon) and I agree it is a big light but I really really like it alot. It can run either 2 Sony type (I use off brand 770s and it runs for hours) or a Bescor 50w NiMH that I have never been able to run down with this light. The only thing I did to the light was to tape a piece of ToughSpun over the diffusion lens to help soften it up a bit. I felt it was a bit harsh without it but thats me. Big light, nice spread and even throw with it though. A good investment IMO.

Noa Put January 5th, 2013 02:02 AM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Harding (Post 1771239)
Now I'm assuming that was the Canon footage..It will be nice to see what the Sony does especially with the red brick walls.

It was the xh-a1 but the low quality on youtube doesn't do the footage any justice, the brick walls are indeed a great test for moire and aliasing, I"m not sure if I can get in because a lot has changed, there are gates now surrounding the building and there is a lot of wild plants making it difficult to pass but there is always a way in. It has been raining almost constantly here for a while and the roof in that casino is full of holes so I expect a lot of water inside. Currently is heavily clouded, a bit misty but no rain so far.

Noa Put January 5th, 2013 02:12 AM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Digges (Post 1771227)
That is the kind of fun I was talking about putting back into my shooting!

It's been a busy year last year for me and then I don't have time for personal projects, at the end of the wedding season I"m kinda fed up with editing weddings because that's almost all I see and do for 9 months per year, at the end of the wedding season I just want to do something for fun with no obligations or deadlines whatsoever. It's something I need as well to enjoy shooting and when the wedding season starts again my batteries have been charged. :)

Joris Rens January 5th, 2013 02:59 AM

Re: New Sony NEX-EA50EH Announcement
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put (Post 1771152)
ps. I"m often in Heusden-Zolder which is just a 20 min drive for you, if you want to check out the camera just give me a sign if you want to drop by.

That would be great! I'm ready to order the ea50 next week, but it would be fantastic if I could see it first. And as a beginner videographer, meeting a pro is always a good idea :-). Let's see how the pm works in here...


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