"you can shoot video only with the lens wide open (not so acceptable)"

Assuming this were to be true -- one could only use shutter-speed to control exposure. On a bright day this might require a speed faster than possible. Of course ND filters could be used.

It seems unlikely Sony would develop an adaptor knowing it would be near impossible to shoot with it. I see no reason a lens with an aperature control would suddenly lose its ability to dial in an aperature.

Perhaps you mean lenses without an manual aperature?

Of course-- because there is no need for a control in the world of digital audio.

All that's needed is camera have a LIMITER (not an AGC) that prevents clipping at 0VU AND a mic that matches the sensitivity of the VG10 specification.

By using a mic with a matching sensitivity you prevent two issues:

1) signal levels so high they force the limiter to always be on.

2) signals so low that soft sounds will record down in the noise levels.

When you feed a digital system a signal that matches ITS sensitivity, the inherent range of digital audio is wide enough to handle the full sound level reaching the mic.

If you are using a mic mixer you use the Master to set the output level to match the camera and then adjust the mics relative to each other. If you are using a wireless mic -- look for one that has an adjustable output.

But, for the intended market, none of these should be an issue.

PS: there is one nasty. If you want to record 2 separate channels. The limiter may affect both channels. You'll need a mixer.

Steve,
The footnotes on the VG10 Sony Style webpage state that with the adaptor + the Sony A Class lenses you can shoot only manual focus and full open aperture.
I'm not really familiar with the Sony A lenses- f-stop may be camera only controlled with no aperture ring for true manual setting.

I was thinking of Minolta lenses, but it looks like the Minolta A-mounts may only support fully auto mode introduced with the MAXXON in 1985. These seem not to have an iris ring!

But, I remember reading K-mounts were also supported. These, I hope were fully manual.

Still looking.

No aperture rings on the A mounts I've got... the variable aperature ones change with zoom. So that would make the A mount lenses a bit problematic, never thought of that issue.

This may turn out to be one of those places where the already prolific E mount adapters come in quite handy... when you have a wide selection of possible lenses via adapter, it's not so important what "mount" your imager has, only that it has the desired qualities for recording what passes through the lens.

That's definitely a good work around. All my Nikon lenses have aperature rings.
But, it's just one more detail that makes me wonder if this camera/system is quite ready for prime time yet.
It's quite possible that Sony will expand their E series to faster lenses, prime lenses, etc., but no word on that yet.

And that raises another potential issue, especially for those of us spoiled by the IS of the 500/550 series...

Part of the attraction of the "A" mount was that the camera body contained the stabilization, so you didn't have the added cost in the lenses... I'm pretty sure the NEX series and E mount have the stabilization in the lens... meaning that the adapted lenses wouldn't be stabilized... not a huge problem for a still camera, but a video camera?

I'm guessing there is some IS in the body, but in the notes it says: Active Mode image stabilization feature is within the SEL18200 lens only.

It would appear that at least to some extent that image stabilization will be tied to the Sony E lenses...

A lot of the more modern Pentax DA lenses do not have an aperture ring - it's expected that aperture will be controlled from the camera body. On the other hand I found this page with accessories supplier Novoflex with a bunch of options...among them the lens to camera adapter supplying the missing aperture ring for the lens.

Novoflex - Adapterfinder

Well, that's a cool work-around for the iris problem. Looks like the Germans are ahead of the curve on this camera.
Here is also a hands on review at a German site (Google translated)
Google Translate
The translation creates some ambiguities, but one thing that caught my eye was the observation that the autofocus was sluggish. That's unwelcome.

May be a pattern forming.
 

I love Sony products. Probably bought 100s of them in the past 20 years. But, I can easily believe that they would develop this type of adaptor.

Sony made another adaptor not so long ago that wasn't optimum. The LA-100W Z7/Alpha adaptor.

Hook it up to a Z7 and it magnifies Alpha lenses 7x. With no IS.

Alpha system has IS in-camera. On the Z7, IS is in the 412 and 308 lenses.

The footage I've seen is shaky even on a large tripod.

It cost over $600.

Although, that adaptor does have a ring to control the aperture of the Alpha lenses (up to 1.4). So I guess it is possible to design.

But, given the lack of IS on the LA-100W and the apparent lack of aperture control the LA-EA1, per Sony's footnotes, both adaptors seem like an after thought.

Half baked at best, to be frank.

I suspect this was a comment about the still camera's zoom and MAY not apply to the VG10's zoom lens. I hope!

I'm puzzled by the Sony adaptor not allowing control of a lens given it passes the electrical signals. I'm wondering if the footnote applies to AE while shooting.

Hard to believe that when one sets Manual Iris, an attached lens would not read the signal.

PS: About aliasing. I'm not sure any camera that also is intended to take hi-rez stills can have an optical anti-aliasing filter. Which would also open the door to Morie. (SP)

Reading BBC reports it seems low-cost HD camcorders have very simple low-pass filters which are hard pressed to suppress aliasing from really HIGH rez sensors.

I believe you are correct. With a sensor pixel count of 14 MP, an OLPF optimized for 1,920 x 1,080 would not yield good results at full sensor resolution.

Manual translation: "The autofocus is nice and slow, so it will not distract by sudden focus movements during filming. On the other hand, when you press the photo button half way, it jumps to focus. However, the focus cannot be fixed in that mode."

From my understanding they were definitely talking about the kit lens.

Hope that helps,

Thomas

Thanks Thomas.
That's an alltogether different message.
Doesn't sound so bad after all.

I will admit to being quite ignorant about the Sony Alpha mount. I do know that in the case of Pentax K-mount, it is not an electronic signal but a mechanical lever/tab in the lens that is moved by the camera.

I do understand Sony has tried to maintain backward compatibility with Minolta Maxxum lenses, so is Alpha mount in the same boat as Pentax in this regard? Thanks also for the info (Dave Blackhurst) that Sony, like Pentax, has shake reduction built into the body instead of the lens.

IIRC the iris control is electronic, not mechanical - been a while since I reviewed the mount configuration - I know there are two contact configurations, one older with fewer pins, and the current pin config - the old lenses work with the newer pin configuration, just with slightly reduced function/feaure set - I don't recall offhand what exactly isn't there, will have to go dig that up!

More adaptors:

M42 - Sony E-mount Lens Adapter | Bokkeh.com

http://www.bokkeh.com/home/item/8-ltm-e-mount

For any camera that has a large high-res sensor and is intended for both high-res stills AND HD video, any optical low pass filtration is likely to be useless. If it was suitable for suppressing video aliasing, it would render the stills unacceptably soft.

It's not impossible to design such a camera (good stills and video) in theory, though it may be stretching current technology to make it viable. Unlike the Canons, it needs to scan the entire sensor at frame rate (not skip most of the pixels) and then downresolve the frames with good lowpass filtration algorithms. It's possible - theoretically.

As a word about the great 24p debate, then whilst I agree with most of what Steve Mullen says in principle (30p is better), then don't forget about world compatability. 24p and 25p can be acceptably changed to each other IF the 4% speed change is accepted. Cinema films at 24fps have been shown on European TVs at 25fps for decades now, after all....

I agree that 24p is the most flexible although our PAL friends urge us to buy and shoot 25p. Then you can make a BD using 1080i50/25p or slow to 1080p25.

I'm not sure what LCD refresh rate Euro computers use. Is it 50Hz or 100Hz? Or, is it 60Hz. If it's 60Hz there's no problem adding pulldown to 24p. But, how is 25p and 1080i50 displayed???

PS: from a ne-5 review -- "The camera's auto-gain system also did a good job of adjusting sensitivity as sound levels got louder or softer, with no evident "breathing" in transitions from high to low sound levels."

This seems to imply a SMART AGC is being used.

Given the amount of time required for processing a frame of video (33mS), an audio DSP can do a good job of monitoring audio many samples in the future and in the past to better adjust the current sample's gain. These same DSP circuits have made digital hearing aids supposedly so much better.

Sometimes I feel folks continue to think audio works like it did in 1980 even though they are shooting HD in 2010.

Imagine my happy surprise to find my neighbor has a collection of Minolta lenses -- including the 500mm.

Has Sony made the manual available yet? Among other things, I'm curious if the VG10 has peaking and zebras?

I haven't heard of the manual being available yet, but I have definitely gathered from the European reviews that there is no peaking or zebras.
The VG10 seems to be configured more in line with a consumer camera, with little in the way of pro features aside from some manual exposure and focus controls.

In your opinion, is it worth $2000?

Who are you asking? The camera isn't even out yet, how can someone give a serious opinion?

If you want mine, based upon never having seen one, much less handled one - yes. It is to me.

Why do I say so? Because it is the first camcorder - not DSLR, but a true camcorder - that offers a very large sensor, interchangeable lenses, the ability to give very sharp depth of field, good nat sound audio, cheap media storage, etc.
I can see this camera filling a nice niche for me professionally, and personally. I could put this camera to work immediately. It may be marketed as a consumer camera, but I will use it to generate income. Plus, I can use it for personal projects, short films, etc. I cannot wait to play with that shallow DoF.

However, none of us can know for sure until we get real world, hands-on experience with it.
So, your opinion on its worth is as good as anyone's.

I was asking anyone that knows more than i. lol which is probably most of you. Just all the reviews i have read about it, says it falls short of expectations. It's in my price range, but i am worried that something will come out a few months later that will be superior. I can only afford one camera like this a year. I understand that no one will know really the truth about it till hands on. the reviews i have read have been by professionals that have had a chance to try it out. None of those were very positive, but maybe they were expecting too much.

It's not a professional camera; so don't expect positive reviews from professionals, and I don't mean that as a slur on professionals or this camera. It has several limitations that will turn off many - particularly pros - but then so do DSLRs.

Something better will come out - maybe even from Sony - sometime in the next few years, but if your time frame is a year, thats not so certain. In the short term, Panasonic has a big sensor camera coming that will probably be two or three times the price of this. Canon may have a new DSLR coming out soon, the Nikon has the D3100 which appears to have 1080p support.

What do you want to do with this (or other) camera?

All the reviews I've seen - and there are very few, or in another language with poor translations - seem to like it. It's not the be-all, end-all of video cameras, but for 2 grand, what can you expect? The images look very nice, from what I've seen.

As far as it being your only camera, that depends on what you need it for. If you need to record audio, I'd go for a more dedicated prosumer video camera with XLR inputs. If depth of field is more important, there is nothing in its price range that can match it, DSLRs excepted.
For me, it will be my b-camera, for particular shoots when I want that shallow DoF. it will not replace my big camera, but it will be nice to have along on a shoot. I can see using this camera as the main camera for a b-roll only shoot, though. Assuming th codec is robust enough for broadcast.

One thing that does irritate me on some of the reviews, or people posting about the camera, is their complaint about the lack of a motorized zoom. It uses DSLR lenses, people! DLSR don't need power zooms! The people who use DSLRs for video capture seem to work around this. I swear, some people forget where this camera comes from. If they want power zooms, buy another dedicated video camcorder. Do like the majority of film shoots and learn to work with different lenses and drop the zoom shots.

I do alot of live action paintball games( i work at a paintball store). I would also like to do promotions for the store. I would like to try small short films, or maybe a music video for a friend's band. I'm truely a hobbyist, i don't plan on doing it for a living. I just want it to look at as good as possible.
I have a Canon hv30 now. i was about to purchase a dof adapter and lens for it till i heard about the nex-vg10.
Thanks for the advice by the way.

Glen's comments are spot on, you have to look at this camera for what it IS, the first "crossover" camera that comes at the equation from the VIDEO side of the field. Crossover meaning a camera that can do both video and still relatively well, and has a "large sensor", with the corresponding capabilities and limitations.

If you want DoF, this might be your camera... but do you always want or need that? If you are considering a DSLR-V, but want a more "video cam" form factor this IS your camera. If you want a dedicated still camera that also does video as an add-on, you might go a different way...

FWIW, Sony will be maiking some big announcements shortly (Aug 24 seems to be the "day"), including Alpha bodies with video, two of which appear to be "regular" SLR's, and two which may be a completely new approach, with the video capability being emphasized.

As I'm looking to upgrade a couple A bodies, I'm waiting patiently... then the choice will be harder, with more options, but maybe just maybe a "winner" will emerge for what I am looking to achieve (just about the same thing Glen is, a "b" cam for DoF type shots).

IMO, the VG10 is "worth" the price of admission, and I'll be watching to pick one up secondhand most likely, as that's how I make "new toys" affordable! I've been tempted by the NEX5, but just can't accept the limitations, the VG10 looks more promising, but that may change in a few days, as I've already got the equivalent lenses to the VG10's 18-200 E lens (and some other very sweet old glass), but in A mount... so an "A" body may emerge that works for me, both budget and practicality wise. I'm prepared already for the DSLR form factor issues.

Frankly, my CX550V's are still about the best "all round" shooter I've got for the price, and are turning out to be a well balanced camera overall, though I have other cameras for "stills".

I will be interested to read the reviews on the VG10 after it is released. In particular I would like to know how its codec compares to the current crop of DSLR cameras.

Please don't get me wrong, I mostly agree with you - for right now.

My point would be, as both DSLR and camcorder merge close enough to share lens mounts and lenses, is it impossible to imagine new lenses being released that also support a power zoom function?

Some very good points have been make in the above posts.
A key consideration is if the VG10's unique features (primarily shallow depth of field, interchangable lenses) are specific features that you need to do the sort of work you are planning. One drawback to shallow DOF is the need to constantly be on the money with the focus. If you are doing a narrative film, it's not such a problem. If you are doing run n' gun ENG type of shooting (maybe paintball mayhem??), it could be an actual drawback.
The word that has leaked from Sony is that they do, in fact, plan on announcing a more pro version of this camera by year's end.
Reference has been made to the Sony CX550 as being a super all around camera. I have one and completely agree with that assesment.
So, just because the VG10 is the newest in the Sony line up doesn't necessarily mean it is the "best" for all shooters, or all situations. A certain crowd has gone nuts over big chip DSLR video. This camera is aimed squarely at them. If you are in that group, it will be your cup of tea. And if you need more pro features, it sounds like that wish will be fulfilled pretty soon too :)

Does anyone have any links to these rumors of new Sony cameras? That news is very intriguing.

When they announced the camera I pretty much assumed there was a 50/50 chance that a "professional" version - probably with XLR jacks and a few more controls - would follow soon after. But to have someone say there'll be something by years end....oh no!.now I'm conflicted!!

Sure, there might be lenses like that one day. But to complain about a camera not having a lens that doesn't even exist is ludicrous. Might as well complain your new car can't fly.

Well, there is going to be some activity on Aug 24th, but I believe it will all be about the new Alpha mount.bodies, the rumble on the street is 4 new models, two A5xx series replacements w/video, and two new animals using a pellix mirror design specifically to facilitate faster focus for video. I'm leaning towards something in that vein, at least so far, though I doubt they will have the same sexy vibe the VG10 has.

I don't see any reason why Sony can't issue a "pro" model of the VG10, although the basic design is pretty sleek/bare bones. I suspect when they showed the prototype a few months ago, they were testing the waters, and found them to be filled with hungry "large sensor" pirahna... so followup models would be no surprise.

I know the whole E mount apparently evolved out of the need for a new lens design that could better accomodate video. Sony is coming "fashionably late" the the SLR/large sensor party, but they are coming with some fresh new ideas, that's always exciting.

Glen, since I know DVi doesn't generally sanction "rumors", if you're interested in possible future developments, google "sony alpha rumours", as well as Dyxum, those sites are more oriented towards the SLR (dyxum actually may declare you heretical you if you mention video being of importance - they are hardcore still oriented), both have some discussion on video (not much, nor as thorough as here!!). Hopefully as the situation develops, Chris can build out the Sony forums as the still and video sides converge.

Here's one source I was able to remember & track down:
"I fully expect there to be another camcorder model announced (I’d guess by the end of the year) that will compete more in the HVX200 and XDCAM EX1 size/featureset market. And given all the right notes they have hit with their first entry into the DSLR-video-camcorder space, I am very excited to see what they have next for us. So if the NEX-VG10 isn’t your cup of tea, I personally don’t think you’ll have long to wait for more options."- Matt Jeppsen
All of this sort of "info" is obviously speculative, but Matt does claim to be connected with someone knowledgable at Sony.
Link to the full article: ProVideo Coalition.com: FRESHDV by Matthew Jeppsen & Kendal Miller
They are pretty clever at Sony. It makes sense that they didn't design the VG10 as an isolated one-off product. The sales $$$ feedback they are now getting from the NEX still cams, plus the preorders for the VG10- as well as the level of worldwide interest (almost 27,000 views of this DV Info thread alone), are probably providing all the signals they need for full speed ahead- or not...

Dave and Robert,

Thank you for the links. But it doesn't look like Sony will have a professional model anytime soon. Based on what I've read, there is no real news of a pro model. It's not even a rumor, more like a writer's wish list. That doesn't mean it won't happen, I just don't see any definite news. We do know Sony displayed a prototype of a large sensor pro model at NAB, but it's way more than $2,000.

There might be a new video-capable Sony DSLR, but I prefer the video camera body style. I do find it interesting that on the DSLR forums, they're speculating that the E-mount system will expand and give us more lens choices.

I think for this year, we'll just have the VG10. And if there is a new pro model, it will most certainly be priced around the other pro model camcorders. So, the VG10 will still be in a class by itself.

I suspect the VG10 will be somewhat like the old HC1 - a breakout product to open the door to future development - so the "possiblity" of an A1U equivalent is there. The VG10 is a "first test shot" if you will.

The entire NEX series with it's E mount is "uncharted territory", and so far has apparently been wildly sucessful despite some interface stumbles on a "1st gen" product. We do know that the E mount (with the new lenses) was designed to avoid some of the inherent issues in trying to use a DSLR for video

I do find the inclusion of the alpha flash shoe to be intrigueing. Sony has in the past put some interesting features on their proprietary shoes, although it's a long shot... in theory they "could" have put an interface of some sort up there for an XLR box, although I'd sincerely doubt it.

I'm mixed on the DSLR form factor for video, but I can go either way, depending on the features.

I do expect the lens options available for the E mount to open up, there are already third party options to mount a number of "other" manufacturers lenses via adapters. I'd rather like to play with a tilt shift adapter someday myself!

That makes sense to me as well.
It's possible that Sony will "announce" some intention of a more full featured APS video cam by year's end, but I would guess that it would be well into next year before it was actually available, and would probably be in the $4-$6K price range.
So, the VG10 will likely stand alone in it's particular niche re price, features, size, etc.