I'm guessing that any pro version of the VG10 will be in & around the $3500 to $5000 price range. Sony usually creates anywhere between a $1500 to $2000 price difference between their similiar version of a consumer & pro camera, with a few exceptions like the $500 difference between the AX2000 and NX5 & the CX550V and MC50U. But the FX1 and Z1U had a $2000 difference, The FX7 /V1U & FX1000/Z5U had about a $1000-1500 difference. So, in keeping with Sony's pricing philosophy, I expect that if any pro version of the VG10 is released, it'll probably be at MSRP of either $2999.99, $3499.99 or $3999.99.

Ozzy

I think it may depend on whether they just stick a few features (like XLR) on the existing VG10, or up the ante to an NX sized cam with features more comparable to an EX1.
Or maybe, in good time, all of the above :)

Hi
I would guess that any 'pro' version of the VG10 made available this year would be like the CX550V/MC50 versioning - a different colour but functionally identical, with minor add-on accessories, and a logo redesign...
(So as to allow Sony Pro Video dealers a slice of the action).

Rumoured for an announcement at Photokina is an upgraded/rechipped NEX-7 still camera, and if correct that would be a more likely basis for a proper Pro EX-1 type offering:
Sony NEX-7 with 1080p coming later in 2010 - SlashGear

720p120!!!

So the NEX-7 will have a more capable sensor than the NEX 3/5 - and the VG10. And it will do 60i, 24P and 30P, and an incredible 720/120P!
Methinks Sony should delay the VG10 until it can also get these goodies. Hmmm...maybe a VG20 coming soon?

Any word when the NEX-7 is gonna be released. Hmm, the NEX-7, the VG10, and the Z35, which they unveiled at NAB 2010 and claim to be released before NAB 2011, Sony is really upping the ante. Who knows what else they got from now to the end of the year.

Ozzy

According to the articles, maybe September 2010 for the NEX 7.

Supposedly the NEX 7 is a bit behind schedule - BUT, I notice that the specs for two of the cameras supposed to hit on the 24th of this month show a 16Mpixel sensor - may be the anticipated "better" sensor, since the other two cameras appear to perhaps have the same 14M sensor as the NEX3/5/VG10.

I'd expect Sony to be pretty busy closing out 2010...

30p to 24p
 

For those who want 24p I'm thinking there should be software that can read 120 frames of 30p into a buffer. Each frame is 1/30 the second apart.

Now if we impose on this buffer a series of 120 slots 1/24th second apart, there will be some frames of input that will line up with the slots.

For those slots that don't line up, some will be close to a prior or next frame -- so use put it into the slot.

When a slots is midway between frames, blend the frames.

Now output the 120 slots at 24p.

The danger is that a cadence is formed which would be visible.

The alternative is to apply motion estimation the 120 slots from the 120 framed. Obviously this should be better looking but it will take a long time to compute.

Back in the days og JVCs HD10 I seem to remember that there was software that could do this conversion without causing any frames to be dropped. It worked with progressive! (interlace is easier.)

Anyone remember it's name?

PS: since one is not likely to go to film these days, it might be possible to lay a 2:3 pulldown pattern on the 120 frames and output 1080i60/24p ready to burn to BD.

SONY NEX-VG10 - VJ (Videojournalist)
 

I'd love to hear an English translation of this.
I will say that there wasn't much of a DSLR look to the footage.
As there wasn't much DOF to it. As the aperture seemed to be closed down quite a bit.
Looked kind of video cameraish if you ask me.

This guy teaches video production?

Of course there is tons of DOF -- if he has correctly locked the shutter to 1/40th (mid-way between 1/30th and 1/60th) the aperture must be nearly closed!

You have to use a high density ND to get the aperture down to f/4.

I suspect either he doesn't understand DOF or he didn't want to reveal that a ND will be needed.

I would expect we will soon see dozens of similar movies. Either there will be huge DOF or they will lock the aperture and then shutter speed will go to 1/4000th and the video will strobe badly.

Everyone will blame the camera.

The German review has a problem with talking about ND. They say there is no ND. Do they mean there is no ND switch or have they tested every speed and aperture combination to confirm an ND filter isn't automatically inserted.

They also want VU meters and gain controls. If the camera doesn't have gain controls then it has either an AGC or a limiter. They don't test to which it has.

If it has AGC it doesn't need meters because the camera is controlling gain.

And since the majority of those in the market will use the built-in mic -- and its sensitivity is matched to the camera, even if there is only a limiter one doesn't need to see it doing its work.

If one uses external mics then one should be listening with headphones to see if there is hum, noise, static, etc -- all of which meters will NOT show.

I thought that the low light shots looked promising.
Presumably done with the f 3.5 E Lens.

A review is posted on the Luminous Landscape site
 

That's a good review. When you look at some of the missing features that are even incorporated in the NEX-5, you've got to believe they are carving our 'feature space' for a pro version of this camera. I hope that is the case. The VG10 is missing too many important features to use as a pro camera. I can't fault Sony if that is their plan. It's actually good to bracket the market with price / performance choices.

But holy wow, what $2000 camcorder has no zebras, focus assist, audio gain controls with meters, or XLR input?

All but the XLRs are have been standard on sub-$1000 camcorders for years.

I used the camera for a short time today.

It was weird zooming it with the stiff manual zoom ring. It was front heavy and the autofocus was slow but the image was pretty and the price is right!
It is exciting to witness the start of this revolution first hand!

Bring it on Canon

I know everybody wants to compare these features on other camcorders to the VG10. But let's be fair - how many other $2,000 camcorders have interchangeable DSLR lenses, a very large sensor, very good nat sound mikes and AVCHD 24mbps recording? The answer is - none. Zero, zip.

That's the idea. This is a whole new category of camcorders, and as for right now, the VG10 stands alone. It will require you to re-think how you approach video acquisition. Oh, soon there will be more advanced models with more professional features, and higher prices. But until then, as Laurence said, this is the beginning of a video camera revolution. Enjoy the ride.

Giddyap... Giddyap!

The more I am reading about the vg-10 the more I'm thinking about waiting to see what's going to come out next. Has anyone heard anymore release rumors?

I agree. Sony crippled it too much. There are too many video camera features that have been left off. I'm afraid it would it would be a PITA to do any serious work with.

Oh, I don't know. I bet I could make some pretty pictures with this camera. I believe it would make a nice, affordable b-cam.

I wish I had this cam when I was at yellowstone last week to test it out. The zoom feature is what has my attention provided the picture is better than the latest Sony consumer cams. Definitely not a pro cam but as posted earlier, this is sony's test to see if it will sell, get feedback, and go from there. I plan on taking a chance and pre ordering in a few weeks through B&H. I emailed them about the pre order and was told they did order a good amount of them. Just hope I won't be disappointed.

I think you have to define what you mean by work. If you do a lot of zooming it's not going to work for you. (And, you know you shouldn't be zooming anyway.) But, I can't see anything else that is going to give you a problem!

If you set up each shot -- zoom all the way in so so you can manual focus and then reframe, you only need to set exposure. That's just a matter of dialing in the aperture.

Sound complicated?

Well in the days when folks shot film that's what we did for EVERY shot. In fact we also had to turn the turret to select one of three lenses. And, we had to take a light meter reading.

We also had to hand wind the spring motor.

Given the huge volume of WORK produced on 16mm film, most of it far more memorable than 90% of the stuff shot on camcorders -- it seems absurd to claim you can't get work done.

This is a film camera. Use a light meter and forget zebras. If you really find the AGC a problem -- and I'll bet you will NOT -- than shoot separate system with a tiny digital recorder. Remember, all the classic film were shot with cameras that recorded NO audio!

PS: why would anyone use exposure compensation? Take a light meter reading and dial in the f-stop. If the histogram doesn't look right, teak the aperture. There are only 4 things you need to control exposre and the Sony gives you control of all four. Exposure compensation is video toy.

Steve, I'll just make a couple of points to clarify what I mean. Regarding exposure, film has more latitude and can handle exposure variations somewhat better than video cams can. Judicious use of zebras is very helpful especially in event shooting where it is common to have substantial changes in lighting in various scenes. An outdoor event in mixed lighting can easily have a four or five f-stop variation in lighting from one shot perspective to another if there is mixed sun and shade. I'm sorry, but zebras appropriately used are very useful for a professional shooter. I agree with you about exposure compensation. I feel it's actually dangerous and a great way to screw up shots. In my opinion it is for consumer point and shoot cameras only.

Peaking is also very useful. It's even more important with a camera that has a shallow depth of field. When covering an event such as a wedding, you need to be in focus - right now, when you move the camera from one subject to another or the subject moves toward or away from you. You can't do the zoom-in bit to focus and then reframe your shot; you're shooting a live event in real time! Why don't you try shouting "cut" at a wedding so the camera operator can adjust focus and let us know how it worked out for you. When you're doing follow focus of a moving subject like a bride walking down the aisle toward you, peaking is a gift from above. Auto focus is useless and dangerous. It is very likely to focus on the background rather than the subject which ruins the shot. The 'back-in-the-day' boys often had focus pullers as well - plus these types of shots were preplanned so the focus puller would know where to make the focus changes. You could spend all day for just a few minutes of footage. Try that at a wedding sometime!

Finally, the VG10's controls are located under the LCD when it is closed. When you are shooting with the viewfinder, the only way to get at the controls is to open the LCD which turns off the viewfinder. That's another 'thriller' when you're doing a real time event shoot. Sony should add a menu selection that allows the viewfinder to stay on whether or not the LCD is open or closed. My EX1R allows that and I find it very useful.

I appreciate your experience with film cameras but please don't use that to critique present-day shooting applications with the tools that we have to work with now. Peace.

The ability to shoot with both the viewfinder and lcd on is something that Sony relegates to its pro level camcorders while with their consumer level camcorders, it's either one or the other. The Z1, V1,A1, Z5, Z7, EX1 all allow both the lcd and viewfinder to used at the same time. But with the FX1, HC1, HC3, HC7, FX7, FX1000 , you are limited to only the lcd or viewfinder, but not both at the same time. Since the VG10 is part of the Handycam consumer line, the option to use the lcd and the viewfinder both at the same time won't be there. Another reason many of us are wishing, hoping, and waiting for a pro level version of the VG10.

something interesting

Sony unveils SLT A55 and A33 with translucent mirror technology
Sony unveils SLT A55 and A33 with translucent mirror technology: Digital Photography Review

Sony SLT A55
Just posted! Sony SLT A55 in-depth review: Digital Photography Review

-α55 (SLT-A55V) (16.2 megapixels) and α33 (SLT-A33) (14.2 megapixels)
-Ultra-quick shooting up to 10fps with fast, precision phase detection AF
-First ever Quick AF HD Movie with smooth, continuous autofocus during video shooting
-Enhanced Quick AF Live View and 7.5 cm (3") free-angle LCD, plus Tru-Finder (Electronic Viewfinder) with 100% coverage
-Advanced imaging functions including 3D Sweep Panorama, Auto HDR and multi-frame noise reduction

I totally agree.
Those of us who shoot run n' gun/ ENG/ event type footage will probably find the VG10 a difficult tool to work with due to the lack of features we are accustomed to.
If you are making a narrative film, or other types of structured projects, where you have the luxury of "set up" time, retakes, etc., it's maybe not such a problem.
I personally don't think we will wait very long for Sony to announce the next step in the APS videocam line, and hopefully it will address most of these concerns.

Steve's right about 'the way things were'...lens turret that swiveled into place giving you 3 choices of lens (close, med, long), distance hash-marks on lens so you'd use a tape measure for focus, light meter dangling around your neck, no ability to record sound or even, in many cases, to be able to sync up recorded sound because the motor ran so unevenly.
However, here's the point...do we want to go back to those good old days?
NO! Yet Sony and the other camcorder manufacturers know their days are limited. If they had their way, they'd parcel out minor improvements each year so that it would take 100 years to finally reach video camera perfection (of sorts).
With the HDSLR phenomenon forcing everyone's hand, their timetable has been upset and they've been forced to improve much faster than anticipated. Thus their only way to slow down this "rush to excellence" is to...you've got it, go backwards with certain key features.
Thus, no means of measuring exposure levels. What a bone-headed decision from our perspective but brilliant from theirs. List all the things you hate about this camera and you can conclude it was done deliberately.
Which is why RED has been our savior. They rejected this "slow train to nowhere" engineering mindset and decided to get it right the first time. Isn't it ironic that our savior has since been left behind in the dust?

Steve all very good points.
I think that people forget that DSLR cameras or in this case DSLR camcorders are not video cameras, but rather film cameras. And as such you would use them as film makers would.

That means setup your shots for exposure and framing and film. And pull focus when needed. Capture audio off camera and sync in post.

If you want the camera to have a lot of auto functions like full time auto focus and the like, and you do a lot of run and gun video, then stick to a video camera, which gives you a lot of these features.

So if you film live events such as weddings, where things change rapidly and are not scripted, then these type of camera are not for you. Yes there are those who are using DSLRs for event work, but it does take a lot more planning and preparation to get the appropriate shots. I shoot events and use video cameras for constant critical video, and use DSLRs for the money candid shots, such as preparation, establishing and reaction shots. Then the two are cut together in post.

Isn't that great! Were it not for the HDLR, the video camera manufacturers would still be shoveling money into their stockholders' pockets and ignoring their customers.

I agree the vg10 would be a pain in the butt to use as a traditional camcorder.

But, if you adapt the methods of film style shooting you can solve the issues. For example, in the doc on Dylan in London it was as crazy as any wedding. So the solution was to shoot wide so everything was in focus. The 16mm lens is perfect for this type of shooting. When a CU was needed they walked up to the subject.

Also, folks didn't care if a zoom "in" went out of focus. They pulled it back ASAP. Thats why the look of an unfocused shot is so important.

Likewise exposure in high contrast situations weren't expected to have no blown highlights. This is why the ability to use a lens that has a circular iris is important. The ability to choose a lens with lots of internal reflections is also important.

To me it's not about going BACK but returning to the day when PHOTOGRAPHIC skills were required to shoot motion pictures. It was the thrill of applying those skills that made shooting fun.

But then I like cuts-only editing with only different speeds of fades to black. That's why the Media 100 was fine for me. I honestly draw a blank when confronted with folders of FX.

Conversly, when I shoot with an iPhone I tend to love FX because it covers over my lack of control during shooting.

So I agree this camera is certainly not for most. And, the inability to use the VF while controlling is a horrible problem. I'll hope someone will find the switch that senses LCD position.

Steve, I appreciate what you are saying. Thankfully the vigorous competition among the camera manufacturers in the large sensor camera market will likely bring an assortment of cameras in many 'sizes and flavors' that will satisfy a diverse range of applications and budgets. It's great to see this dynamic in the camera market especially considering the overall economic conditions now.

You are right -- this is just the beginning.

In this still from a video it seems both LCD and VF are on.

It would be great if that turns out to be the case. Unfortunately the review on Sony NEX VG-10 Camcorder Review says not. Here is a quote from the review:

"– Control Placement and User Interface. I'll be frank. The user interface on the VG10 is really not that good. It is based on that of the NEX5 which I roundly criticized when I reviewed that camera here recently. It improves on the NEX5 slightly by having a few additional buttons, but these are all covered by the LCD screen when it is closed.

If you shoot using the EVF then you'll likely have the screen closed, and this means that not a single control is available unless you open the screen cover, at which point the view through the EVF disappears, and reappears on the LCD. So to shoot while making any adjustment, even something as simple as exposure compensation, requires you to have the LCD screen open, even if you're not using it for viewing. Who on the Sony design team thought that this was a good idea?"

I'm sure it would be a trivial change in the camera's firmware to allow both to be on. Let's hope Sony decides to support this.

I wonder if the reviewer had the manual to read before making this comment. It may well be a menu change as is the case with the NX5U. Default is only one active but there is a menu change in the NX5U that allows both to be on and I wonder if this is also the case with the VG10.

Ron Evans

I had the exact same thought ...

One of the - few - buttons in the controls appears to be a Finder/LCD button. Assuming it works like the same button on other Sony cameras, I suspect it will switch the Finder on, even with the LCD screen open.

Sony, if you are reading this, please note. If you have a burning desire to artificially cripple the VG10, leave this function alone. I hope the camera you provided to Luminous-landscape for review was an anomaly. LCD or viewfinder selection isn't a 'pro' feature; it's a fundamental function without which the camera will be a pain to use.

Actually, no. The power switch is in the OFF position, so what you are seeing on the LCD and VF are reflections.

--AOK--