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July 18th, 2012, 08:50 PM | #46 | |
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Re: Not happy with FS700 ergonomics
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I don't think my case is a straw mans argument. I am not misrepresenting the costs for what it will take to have a usable product at all. If that product is brought to market it will not be in the prosumer price range. You must evaluate the total cost of ownership. To disregard that info is naive. Total cost must include everything needed to make a functioning system and not just the camera body. Since a S35 camera will not be able to use existing ENG lenses without expensive adapters or you have to purchase the right PL lens for the job you can't ignore those costs. It is possible to make a PL zoom lens for less than $40k. The idea that a S35 coverage ENG style zoom lens matching the quality/performance of a good 2/3" lens will be similar in price is unreasonable. I would not expect to find anything for less than $20-30k any time soon. Right now you can count on one hand how many options you have irregardless of price and you won't even need all your fingers to do it. At this time there is nothing applying downward pressure on price other than wishful thinking. ENG is not a commodity market. If it were I would have a more positive opinion on the possibility of a product in sub $20k price range. That isn't the reality of it so I don't see it happening.
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July 19th, 2012, 01:39 AM | #47 |
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Re: Not happy with FS700 ergonomics
I've seen the Tilta Frank. It's about the best I've seen but it mounts the camera very high above the shoulder pad. The shoulder mount is OK, but I don't need or want a cage surrounding the camera, I just want a simple low profile shoulder mount with 15mm rods out the front and back and a bracket for an EVF.
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July 19th, 2012, 01:45 AM | #48 |
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Re: Not happy with FS700 ergonomics
The cage is optional Alister, you can only get the baseplate with the build in shoulder mount and rod mounts. And yeah, it's not exactly "low profile" - but you have to maintain a certain space between lens and rods, so there is not THAT much room for options anyway.
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July 19th, 2012, 01:59 AM | #49 |
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Re: Not happy with FS700 ergonomics
I know the shoulder mount is available on it's own, but it's ridiculously over engineered and I didn't find the camera particularly stable on it due to the sliding camera mounting plate and small mounting surface area. Not sure who designs half this stuff but it doesn't appear to be camera operators. LW15 to optical axis is only 85mm. The FS700 is 55mm from the lens axis to the base, so the shoulder mount only needs to be 45mm tall.
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July 19th, 2012, 02:43 AM | #50 |
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Re: Not happy with FS700 ergonomics
Where is it possible to buy the Tilta? Looks interesting to me. To be used with an FS100 both handheld and tripod.
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July 19th, 2012, 06:16 AM | #51 | ||
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Re: Not happy with FS700 ergonomics
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I gave the example of a PMW320 as compared to a EX1. Fundamentally very similar in terms of the technology, very different for ergonomics. That's what being asked for here. In principle using the same lens as an owner would get for a FS700. Yes, "a S35 coverage ENG style zoom lens matching the quality/performance of a good 2/3" lens" would be nice, but yes, it would be expensive. Following on from your point about total ownership, then whilst such a body may be dearer than an FS700, it would save the cost of extra mountings - the total cost then may not be much higher. |
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July 19th, 2012, 06:33 AM | #52 |
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Re: Not happy with FS700 ergonomics
I'm not thrilled with the ergonomics of the FS line of cameras myself. Once they get this small there is limited real estate to put all the buttons. I'm not exactly thrilled with the ergo of my F3 either but in my opinion it is better than the FS cameras.
What form factor/design would work better (I'm asking seriously and not to be adversarial). How would you design it if you were given a clean slate to work from?
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July 19th, 2012, 07:59 AM | #53 |
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Re: Not happy with FS700 ergonomics
My dreamcamera would actually be an FS700 in an EX1R housing. Reliable SxS media, fantastic handgrip, lightweight and I love the placement of the LCD screen. For documentary style shooting anyway.
If the EX1 had the same DOF, I probably would`nt look any further. |
July 19th, 2012, 08:05 AM | #54 | |
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Re: Not happy with FS700 ergonomics
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I would prefer a better EVF and monitor and would be happy to pay extra for them. A few additional mounting points would also be good to add monitors, rods, handgrips etc.. It's not perfect, but for that price bracket, I think it does exceptionally well.
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July 19th, 2012, 05:30 PM | #55 | |
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Form factor...
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This would simply mean putting large sensor technology into a shoulder mounted body (as opposed to a palmcorder/plastic brick) body, all other things being equal. Making the body shoulder-mounted from the get-go would save camera buyers a fortune on the 3rd party accessories that are designed to "make" these cameras shoulder-mounted. I really don't see how this would be impractical for the camera manufacturers. I do see how the Zacuto's and Red Rock's of this world wouldn't be too happy about it, though. They are making a fortune offering cumbersome, expensive and sometimes absurd camera rigs because of the abysmal ergonomics of these cameras. Shooting is hard enough without having to deal with this kind of nonsense. . |
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July 19th, 2012, 05:49 PM | #56 | |
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Re: Not happy with FS700 ergonomics
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CINOFLEX type-C300 |
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July 19th, 2012, 06:12 PM | #57 |
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Re: Not happy with FS700 ergonomics
Exactly. An HM700 body with an S35 sensor. Compact, lightweight, balances well on and off the tripod. JVC should go for it.
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July 20th, 2012, 07:30 AM | #58 |
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Re: Not happy with FS700 ergonomics
Mike and Jon - exactly - a large sensor and interchangeable lenses in a "shoulder-mounted form factor" is all I want. Not a full-up ENG camera.
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July 20th, 2012, 12:26 PM | #59 |
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Re: Not happy with FS700 ergonomics
But that's not a shoulder mount Jon. It's just a flat slab with a few connectors and a battery plate.Like I said, really not sure who comes up with some of this stuff but it doesn't appear to be end users or real shooters.
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July 20th, 2012, 12:51 PM | #60 | ||
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Re: Not happy with FS700 ergonomics
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http://www.dslrnewsshooter.com/wp-co...anoflex001.jpg ...and guess what? It only costs 5K! Quote:
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