Hi Everyone,

As I mentioned earlier this month, it's been difficult and very expensive to obtain Kensington cards in Australia, so I tried out quite a few different cards before I found two that worked. They were functionally
identical to the Kensington, ( I can get 50fps in PAL out of the Sandisk Ultra II), with the exception that the card protuded out 2mm or so more, so wouldn't allow the door to close on the EX3. But as a stop
gap measure they worked fine, and were certainly cheap enough, that if I made a mistake it was no biggie.

After using them successfully on a large number of shoots, as well as stress testing them in the studio, I posted that they were working.

But it started to bug me that the cards were hard to get in and out of the camera, and I thought there had to be a better solution.

Since that time I have been corresponding with several manufacturers in HK, China and Taiwan about creating an Expresscard 34 adapter which would mount the SDHC card internally, using a Push-in Push-out
mechanism, so that the SDHC card would be enveloped and allow the EX1 door to close. I first tried to contact the manufacturers of the cards that I already bought (see previous posts) from HK and the Philippines.
Their designs were always a smidge too thick for the EX1, so I had to look further afield. I found a manufacturer who was able to produce them.

We've already been through the prototype stages and are at the last stages of testing the working cards. I’m going to put it through the same tests that we did with the Philippine and HK cards. I don't expect
any problems as the electronics are the same as the Prototypes. They are tooling up their line to produce in quantity, as soon as we give them the go ahead. If that all goes well we should be in business no
later than two weeks from now. Just in time for the big man to come down from the North Pole.

On another note, their CEO wanted to know what I was planning to use the card for, and when I told him he wanted to know why we weren't getting him to build a 16GB and 32GB Expresscard using the
PCI interface, which means it will be a direct replacement for the Sony SxS, with similar performance, ie 60fps overcrank. He was surprised we were so keen on using what he called a work-around card.
I'd given up on finding a card after trying the Lexar and the Transcend. They just couldn't keep up with HQ. The first working card should arrive within the next two weeks.

The Adapter card will obviously be selling for more than the Generic cards, but will still be less than the Kensington. I don't have pricing on the memory cards yet, but I'm sure they will be very attractive.

If anyone is interested in either of these cards please send me an email, and I'll let you know when they are available for sale,

Regs

Hi Ross I would more than likely be in for a couple of them when their ready.

Good luck with it and I hope you make some good money out of it. Small lines are my business but I didn't know where to start on this one, but I am glad someone had the foresight to do something about it.

As I'm on EX1 the shorter reader is essential, so I've just done a quick order from ebay.
It should arrive by 10th Dec.
So far I've ordered 4 Kensingtons, got two and two will be coming.
Now I can send two Kensingtons back, because 4 cards ( DElkin and KEn) will do for me.
( I'm also having 2X8 and 1X16G SxS)
If anyone needs 2 Kensington lemme know before next Tue. ( Both cards are unopened in the original pack)

Ross - this news is potentially MASSIVE, and I'm sure there will be a queue of people lining up to thank you and that CEO.

I'm not sure it will actually be a DIRECT replacement for Sonys SxS, since I doubt it will have the 800Mbs speed rating. The implication is that absolute download speeds are unlikely to be as high and it may not work with future SxS cameras which need even higher data rates than an overcranked EX.

For many, many people I don't see that being any sort of practical issue. P2 pioneered solid state, this announcement could be the start of it coming of age.
How I see it is that reliability depends on two factors, absolute technical ones and human factors. An aviation analogy may be that planes may crash either due to mechanical failure or pilot error.

For what we're talking about I suspect the chance of failure through human factors is much greater than the chance of failure through card failure - be that SxS or SDHC. If SDHC changes the workflow enough to significantly reduce human factor errors (such as inadvertantly formatting the wrong card during a hasty field download) my argument would be that the OVERALL system reliability is improved, even if the chance of mechanical failure is very slightly increased.

Just for once, it could be that a cheaper system gives greater overall reliability than a more expensive one.

Hi David,

"For what we're talking about I suspect the chance of failure through human factors is much greater than the chance of failure through card failure - be that SxS or SDHC. If SDHC changes the workflow enough to significantly reduce human factor errors (such as inadvertantly formatting the wrong card during a hasty field download) my argument would be that the OVERALL system reliability is improved, even if the chance of mechanical failure is very slightly increased."

That's what really drove me forward. I wanted to have a reasonably costing solution to allow me to shoot a wedding on Saturday and Sunday without having to to a download until Monday morning.

Downloading on a Saturday night at 1am felt like Kevin Bacon in Apollo 13, when asked what the big "NO!" on a piece of paper covering LM separation button was...

JIM LOVELL
- What is that?

JACK SWIGERT
- Oh... I was getting a little punchy and I... I didn't wanna cut the LM loose with you guys still in it.

Once it's deleted.... don't like to think about it.

Before the EX1 or EX3 came out, you were using tape. Assume you had a Z1 for 3 years. How much tape did you use during that time, and what was the total cost for all your hdv tapes? I'm sure it would have exceeded the price of SxS cards.

If you can look at the situation this way, the Sony cards aren't as expensive as you think, in the long run. Plus they will always perform flawlessly at every setting.

Ross, it'd be great to have more options that keep the EX1 door closed. Please let me know, and do post here, when you have your adapters commercially available.

In the meantime, what would be the advantage of your adapters vs Delkin, which also allows EX1 door to close, reportedly?

Thanks.

In response to Perrone Ford,

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/969673-post1108.html


My point was that looking through this entire thread, we are seeing people hacking bits of memory cards, can't shut the door, error messages etc. Given that you (others) have just spent £5000 - £6000, or whatever that translates to in dollars. I am surprised that you are spending so much time and effort in trying to avoid buying the media which is custom made for the camera.

I agree it is totally overpriced, but surely your time and expertise has to be worth outlaying the extra cash.

Someone made the point that the film industry has always had problems, tape snarling, film breakage, hair in the gate, etc. I agree, and that is why I have chosen the tapeless option. What I don't want is a new problem to add to the now redundant list, i.e. Error messages in the middle of a shot, or cards that stick out on a damp day.

Keep looking for the ideal solution, I hope you find it, or better still write to Sony and put pressure on them to bring their sxs price down.

Good luck

Respectfully - Vincent

I believe the talk of error messages is to do with attempts to find out which cards work and which don't. The ones that don't give error messages, so they just don't get used.

Hacking bits of memory cards never struck me as a good idea. So just don't do it, the only downside then becomes the door doesn't properly fit on an EX1, and no problem at all on an EX3. Is that such a big deal?

I also don't think Sony are charging an unreasonable amount of money for the cards, given their performance. It's just that most people would be happy with a lower (whilst still adequate) performance most of the time. Just as most lunchtimes a MacDonalds may be quite good enough - you don't eat at a expensive restaurant every lunchtime, do you? If the cards become cheap enough to own enough for an entire shoot, is the absolute download speed so important anyway?

Ross - I like the Apollo story! I'm also reminded of the one about the WWII bomber that gets quoted in industrial psychology examples as an example of how NOT to design a system. Apparently the same style lever was used both for flaps and undercarriage, presumably the company thought "why bother producing two designs when one will do fine for both?" I don't know how much extra it would have cost to make the levers different shapes, but I suspect it was a tiny fraction of the amount put into making the engines etc as reliable as possible. If you were the accident investigator, would you put the inevitable crashes down to pilot error, or poor design?

OK, McDonalds is cheap and cheerful, but knowing what goes into the food so I avoid going in. No, I don't eat in expensive restaurants every day of the week, although I will not think twice about taking a client out for lunch in one. I certainly wouldn't think of taking my client into McDonalds, especially if they are spending a lot of money on a production. The same is true for shooting with "Economy" cards - your clients should be given the best at all times, even if it does mean extra investment in hardware.

I think we may be in danger of going round in circles here, so I am going to make this my last post on the subject.

Now, where are the creative threads? :-)

I own 4 16GB Sony SXS cards, I shoot Mostly Corporate meetings and events some of my shoots are 8 hr multi-cam shoots. I was ready to buy 12 16GB SanDisk SXS cards at a cost of ($8400) before discovering SDHC. I purchased 12 of the Kensington Readers, 10 SanDisk 16GB cards, and 2 Transcend 16GB cards. I have shot four corporate events and two short films with this combo with no errors. I do not use the cards for Over cranking. With the money that I have saved, I pre-ordered two Canon 5d Mark II's. I think the quality on the SanDisk Cards is great, I also do still photography and I have never had a problem with any of my SanDisk cards or Transcend. Also SanDisk did help Sony Develop the SXS cards so I would think their quality control is pretty good. I have also talk with Sony Reps about the alternative media and shared the data with them the last time we talked the rep informed me that all the data had been forwarded to their marketing department. The SDHC combo may not be for everyone, but I am sure glad I discovered it.

I never thought that discovering that SD cards would work in a cheap kensington adapter would turn in to such a monster thread that seems to be going round and round in circles.

Alister
I think what we're seeing is pretty natural for this forum, just the size of the thread represents the number of interested parties in this topic.
I believe the cycle of events goes something like this -

1) wow! the EX1 - great quality - low price!
2) is this the next best thing? - HVX v EX1!
3) uh oh - cmos vs ccd, backfocus, battery boards, caveat!
4) red! scarlet! D90! D5ii!
5) P2 vs SxS! (aka more HVX v EX1)
6) the camera works, people! just shoot it! it's just a camera!
7) need more memory! V1.11!
8) hey look! cheap memory! Kensington! SDHC!
9) uh oh SDHC - no overcrank, boards stick out, caveat!
10) SxS prices! good Sony! Bad Sony!

I think it's not the same people going in circles, just more people joining in.

Anyone tried the Transcend 150x SDHC Class 6 card?

http://www.transcendusa.com/Products...o=147&LangNo=0

Yes, overcranked up to 48 i think.
Not much faster, lot more money.

I'm using the normal transcend class 6 16gb. No problems.


Paul.

Hi Alex,

The card we are about to release will be functionally similar to the Delkin card, although I haven't actually laid eyes on one.

The main difference is that it will sell for less, there won't be any shortage as the first batch will be 4000 units. One of the reasons I went ahead with this design was the cost of the Kensingtons. It cost more for the freight than the card to users outside the US. One online seller actually quoted me twice the cost of the card in freight!

It's great that there are more alternatives to Sony SxS, with the Kensington, Delkin, and now our card. One of the reasons I bought the camera in the first place was that Sony promoted the camera as using non-proprietary cards unlike P2. The implication was that I could buy the cards from anywhere. But it quickly became apparent, that was not really the case.

Will your adapter be available in the US locally?

As a matter of fact I did use a Z1U for the last 3 years. I bought Sony tapes at $2.35 each. About $50/month, approx $1800 total for 3 years - basically the cost of (2) 16GB SxS cards. Except that either the client paid for the tapes in the end (and own them) or the tapes are on my shelf - very inexpensive acquisition archiving. I can't hand over an SxS card for that kind of money, and my clients would crap if I added $1800 to the invoice for "Media."

Hi Alex we are looking at that, but only if the delivered price can be kept under the Kensington/Delkin.

You can hand over DVD-Rs with MXF files converted by ClipBrowser. I made one submission to a network that way.

For North American folks, as previously mentioned, I'm talking to a U.S. company about an adapter. So there will be more than one available option depending on where you are in the world.

I have tried the Delkin adapter before purchased from Fry's electronics got change media error this is one on the first adapters that I tested but it was with a patriot card. I decided to go back to Fry's and try it again same thing change media error the card did not fit inside the adapter it stuck out even further than the Kensington. They must have revised the design have any of you guys tried the Delkin.

Brian, there seems to be a version 1 and a version 2 (the one needed for the EX1).
However, I have not yet found a hint how to differentiate those two version.

Edit: Just read in the other forum that the older Delkin reader has the Delkin Device logo on the front and the SDHC card does not insert flush (above called version 1).
The new Delkin card reader does not have the logo on it and the SD card DOES mount flush (above called version 2). That's the one and
only that works with your EX 1. Thx GB.

Ok thanks the box is exactly the same could not find a model number. but I see what you mean about the logo going to return this one today. I will check to see if Fry's has this version.

Delkin Express Card
 

I believe this is other Delkin Card.

[QUOTE=Rob Fiedler;970266]I believe this is other Delkin Card.[/QUOTE

Thats the pic from the box same pic is on the version one and version two box you will have to look at the actual card.

Brian, so when ordering, say, from Amazon - how do I know which version will i get??

I think the best thing to do is order direct from Delkin. I have ordered but have not received
my card yet.

Expresscard Multi-card Adapter

Card
 

I just picked up another Kensington 7 in 1 card @ the Marietta Georgia Micro Center store. I had heard some of you west coast EX-1 users had some luck @ Micro center in the past.

I just happened to go to their website, punched in the 7 in 1 information and what do you know, up pop,s a card in my area.

Picked it up for $39.99. Now i have 2. I see no reason to purchase anymore. As i have 4 Sony SxS cards in the 8 gig flavor and 2 Kensingtons and 2 -16 gig Sandisk sdhc cards, i think i am set for my style of work and market.

The open door issue on the EX-1 for me at least is a non- issue. I use a 2 inch piece of (Black paper gaffers tape) to avoid any foreign matter from entering the card area.

In the future, as long as the 2 Kensington cards work properly, i will just buy SDHC cards.

sandisk..
 

got sandisk ultra 2 ...shaved it about mm and now i''m able to close the ex1 card door.
As mentioned before here..its possible to-do..also sandisk faster i think than some other cards (almost 50fps overcranking)

Raul

Thank you.
Nobody really cares if someone is opposed or approves to using different memory.

New EX3 Firmware
 

I'm curious...

Has anyone considered or had the thought that the alleged firmware update (December) for the EX3 may contain a "fix" that would prevent the use of the SDHC combination?

Is Sony planning a firmware update for the EX1 as well?

Or am I just being paranoid?

Just a quick post to report that my second Kensington Express card adapter arrived today and all works perfectly with a new Transend 16GB SDHC Class 6 card as expected. My EX3 just asked me to to reformat the media on insertion and then all was good to go.

My other Kensington (paired with a Sandisk Ultra II a couple of weeks back) is also still working absolutely fine (despite the few media error messages I initially got the first time I used it - see posts by me a while ago on this thread).

This is very exciting news Chris! I've already damaged the door on my EX1 by leaving it open whilst using the Kensington. An adapter that allowed the door to close properly would really expand the range of shoots that I could take on. I would pay a premium over the Kensington or another adapter in order to allow for the door to close. Cheers!

Carry Case for the SXS and SDHC
 

Case Logic Model number jds6
Six cards can fit in this case see attachment

32GB cards?
 

Any news on the availability of the new Sandisk Ultra II SDHC 32GB cards?

Just ordered the case - thanks Brian! :)

Here's the link for others. Only $5, and ships free!

I also bought and used another CaseLogic case, which fits 2 combos plus the entire Sennheiser ew100 G2 set in a very compact case. Super happy with that one.

Alex, that's ships free with order of $25 or more.

Jay - but of course :) So what I did, I added a prop gun needed for my new short film to the same order. Now the entire order ships free. I really liked the larger CaseLogic case (see my prev. post, so I\'m sure Brian\'s suggestion is also right on target.

Just tested a Panasonic Class 6 32gig card in a Delkin adapter, no dice. I didnt think it was going to work but thought i\'d test it anyone as i knew someone with the panasonic card.