Just experimenting with an idea to make this whole thing much easier to understand... the link to our quick SDHC for SxS summary is now posted at the top of every page in this thread. We're also working up an article which expands that summary quite a bit (many thanks to Brian & others who are helping out with this!) and that link, when it's ready, will go into that notice at the top of every page here. In other news, I'll be talking to the company I mentioned earlier (it's not Delkin) about a new Express card adapter -- will let you know how that pans out. Hope this helps,

We already know the problem is the bottleneck in the limitation Sony has put on the USB datarate transfer using USB via expresscard.

We've confirmed that the SDHC + adapter combination meets the SanDisk Ultra II SDHC 15MB/s datarate when reading and writing in a PC expresscard (USB) reader.

The limitation from the Sony is around 8.5MB/s. In order for us to reach full overcrank at 24P 60FPS, we need at least 12.5MB/s. SDHC should be able to do this, but it's obvious that Sony limited the datarate.

Oddly, this limitation "appears" to be causing the problem with their own PHU-60K capture drive.

Thank you Chris!

So why do we want that $400 super fast card from Delkin when the cheap ones work just as good?

so you don't have to buy the $900 SxS card for over/under cranking. Hopefully it will work for that, since the EX1/3's data rate is pretty low to start with.

Brian, Robert - I think for overcranking, we'll simply use the 8Gb SxS card that comes with EX1 anyway, included free with the camera.

For everything else, there's Masterca... I mean, SDHC.

Just tried ordering a Kensington 33407 7-in-1 Media Reader through Amazon but they dont ship to Australia or this item they wont ship.

Regards

Received my order for the Kensington 7 in 1 express card from Amazon.com today. This being my second order. It will now be my last.

I also received my order of 2 Delkin 6 in 1 express cards from Adorama also today. I must say i am very impressed with this set of cards.

I installed the Ultra 2 card in the Delkin, put it in my EX-1. The camera recognized the card. Asked if i wanted to " Format" the card. Which i did. Works perfectly.

Now with my latest order, i have a total of 4- 8 gig Sony SxS cards. 3- Kensington readers with 3- 16 gig Ultra 2 SDHC cards and 2- Delkin readers with 2- 16 gig Ultra 2 SDHC cards.

Lol. I think i,m set. 144 gigs.

BTW...
I have a feeling these Delkin cards are hit and miss for working.

Out of the two I bought. One had an unknown media when I first used it.
It started working, but then stopped again. It may be the internal contacts.
I played around with it, but it's not working.

I heard another similar report.

If you find a source, you may want to order more than needed to replace the ones that don't work.

Steven, in my view, Delkin is probably worse than IOC adapter. IOC at least will work reliably, but initially requires fumbling around, reinsertions, etc. until recognized by the cam.

Bottom line, it looks like the only 100% solution is Kensington right now.

I think, whatever the new adapter Chris is working on, he has a leeway of beta-testing it with people on this thread before mass-marketing that new adapter. And it better be reliable like Kensington :)

We'll have to test the Delkin more. Right now, it appears a quality control issue.

It may feel like the SxS card that came with the camera is free but it isn't. You paid for it.

I have 3 on the way and I assume a good number of people jumped on the Dekins last week as well when there was a good deal of evidence these things worked. In any event, we'll know in a few weeks once people run them through the paces.

Nick,

contact me, i can tell you how to get some cards in australia,
rob.

I bought 2 Delkins at the beginning of the week got them Thur., 1 worked the other was bad from the getgo. The one that worked worked flawlessly but it's a bit picky how you insert the cards. If you hold it by the flat sides the SD card won't insert properly and will give you errors but if you hold the adapter by the narrow sides then the card inserts properly and no problems. Works every time! I can't wait for more stock so I can get 4-6 more Delkin adapters plus get my bad one replaced.

I talked face to face today with one of the top people in that company (can't name them just yet... they'll issue an announcement when they're ready, that's their own call to make and not mine). They're perfect for the job -- it's just a matter of how quickly they can do it what with the end of the year and all. And yes I certainly will recommend to them that certain key contributors to this thread have the opportunity to beta-test it and put it through the paces. Keep your fingers crossed,

sounds great ...
 

Chris is the new card a full SXS type or an adapter card?

i had kensingtons on order from 3 places, cancelled them all once I got the
Delkins, that still leaves me only with 2. I might dump some of my Lexar SSDs
for some more adapters.

Dean, I think Chris is working on the adapter just like Kensington, but SHORTER so it'd fit inside EX1 compartment with the SDHC card in it, allowing EX1's door to close properly.

That's right -- a reliable, no-guess, no-fail working Express card adapter short enough to fit in an EX1 with the door closed. These guys already make high-quality SDHC cards, and they already have a world-wide distribution network, so they're perfect for the job. Should know more this week.

I ordered 12 Delkins four are defective. Be sure to test them before shooting a Job.

Very good news indeed as it stands, but the real icing on the cake would be the additional option of ExpressCards with adequate performance for basic operation in an EX (as the SDHC cards), and with pricing to match the SDHC cards. What's being offered is brilliant as it is, but I'd be prepared to pay maybe a 10-20% on the card costs for the ability to not have to use an adaptor.

If they already make SDHC cards, I wouldn't think this would be too difficult for them? Since we're looking towards the day when solid state becomes a consumable item like tape, rather than one or two cards per camera, the potential market could be huge.

Actually I think having an adapter and SDHC card separate is more flexible.

This way, you can upgrade to 32Gb cards, for example, some time down the road - without paying for a new adapter.

Which brings us to another question - what is the SDHC card capacity limit that the new adapter will recognize? Chris?..

I'll be waiting for Chriss'.
What is a week instead of months of frustration?

One question I have would this be an adaptor one puts an SDHC card in or would it be a unit with card built in. I think David Heath alludes to a combined unit.

Just curious what you're aiming for Chris.

Either of the above has good value though as long as it doesn't drive the price up too much compared to the Kensington + SDHC solution.

The other thing is a 32GB model.

BTW you'd think Sony would know about this stuff by now.

I finally got a break in the sched to bring in my EX1 for firmware upgrade and other minor issues. We drove to Teaneck NJ. The guy behind the desk said they are really backlogged with EX1s coming in for firmware upgrades. He didn't seem to know (or acknowledge) the SDHC solution.

Maybe, but what I'm hoping for are ExpressCards that may be only 10-20% more expensive than the same size (and performance) of memory in SDHC form. No adaptors at all, simply cheaper than 800Mbs memory (equivalent to Class 6) in an ExpressCard form factor, and guaranteed for use in an EX. You can buy this category of memory in SDHC, CF, MemoryStick etc etc - why not ExpressCard?

It depends how you use them, but I'm thinking of their being treated as consumable, so upgrading never comes into it. Shoot, and give to client with material, rather than having to download and format, as SxS or P2 in the past. In which case, 8 and 16GB may be about optimum sizes (about 30 and 60 mins), and my interest would be in buying those sizes as cheaply as possible. If the shoot lasted 45 minutes, and a 16GB card was $40, a 32GB $80, it's obvious that it's best to use and charge for the 16GB card.

I may be just having an unusual run of good luck, but the 2 Delkin eFilm adaptors I got last week still seem to work perfectly for EX 1080HQ 60i with the San Disk 16GIG cards. I shot numerous 720p 30 sec duration, 60 fps overcrank shots on each adaptor with no error as well.
Keeping my fingers crossed.

I'm hoping that this new sxs substitue being developed is an adaptor which uses sdhc cards, rather than a one piece card.

A few reasons.
1. I've sold my sony sxs reader, so i now use use the transcend usb reader with the transcend cards, so if this new development turns out to be an "sxs" card how will i offload ?

2. With the price of the sdhc cards being cheap and getting cheaper all the time it's possible to just hand over the footage/rushes to a client on the card at the end of a shoot, but how will they offload if they don't have an express card slot on a pc ?
Whereas all pc's have a usb slot so the cheap sdhc>usb reader can be used by the client.
The readers are only £5 so one of those can be handed over as well.

3. If i do hand over the sdhc card then i can just wander up the road the next day and replace my transcend sdhc card.

I really hope this development is just an adaptor, if it is i'll buy a few, if it's a one piece card then i won't, i'll stick with the "kenny and tranny", tried and tested.

Paul.

I have similar experience shooting 1080 24p with both Kensington and Delkin cards.

What if it didn't have an open slot at the end (like a traditional adapter), but instead it's an Express card shell that you could open up, and install whatever size SDHC card you want inside of it? That way you could upgrade the card capacity easily... or remove it, whenever you need to... the adapter is still a separate piece, but a bit more secure without an open slot... thoughts?

Do I sniff a dangling carrot Chris?

Fine by me.

In fact, it is even better than some other adapters that employ push in - push out mechanism for the cards. Those pose problems since pushing on the card while the combo is inserted into EX1 would dismount the card but may produce EX1 communication error with the combo.

Chris's adapter would not have such problem.

Now, define "install" please :)

Just an idea for having the best of both worlds... Express card memory where you can change out the memory yourself, and that memory module happens to be an SDHC card... if it's easier just to have a traditional adapter with an open slot then so be it, but I thought a fully enclosed shell might have some appeal.

Personally, I think an end loading slot (Kensington style) for the SDHC is more reliable and rugged as a two-part express card adapter that you could easily open up risks damage. Each leaf would need to be quite thin and the hinge arrangement (or sliding arrangement or lug and catch etc. design) might make it fragile, maybe?

Also, pushing in the SDHC from the end gives a nice, almost 'self-cleaning' action as it slides home on the metal contacts of the expresscard's terminals within.

I'm no electronics designer but those are my thoughts.

It would be dead easy... I have a Kingston MobileMate USB card reader that fully encloses an SDHC card. Flip the lid open, and you slide the card in. There's a plastic thumb-push thingy that pushes it back out again -- see pics below (click for larger versions) showing the card fully inserted, and pushed out for removal. I was thinking the Express card shell could be made up in a similar way.

That's a pretty good point... there are some good arguments either way (open slot vs. hinged shell).

Chris, i've no doubt that whatever you and company "x" come up with will be good quality, i don't think you'd put your name to something that's only going to last a short while.
As long as i can still use sdhc cards in it i don't mind what it is.

Paul.

great design ...
 

Chris, that's a good way to approach the design ... I wonder if the new card will allow for 60 fps? It would be nice to have slow-mo working!

Isn't the overcranking limitation due to a USB bottleneck? If so, the adapter would have to be PCI-Express, which raises the price. Even then it's still bound to be significantly less expensive than Sony's SxS media.

Mac ...
 

I've been running my kensingtons though the express card slot on my MBPro. I'm not sure about where the bottle-neck is on the cards? All cards up to this point have trouble getting past 40/50 fps but are capable of faster speeds, I understand ... correct me if I'm wrong on this point.