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Old August 20th, 2019, 10:13 AM   #16
also known as Ryan Wray
 
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Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend?

No my dslr cannot handle sound so i have other sound equipment, then sync it up later. But what i dont understand is, why was it such a big deal to stop him and then mic him in a better location, then start again?
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Old August 20th, 2019, 10:32 AM   #17
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Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend?

I guess your friend was scared to do it Ryan - maybe on religious grounds, maybe on reasons to do with simply upsetting him.

I've had this kind of thing over the years where we're doing something with a 'big name' and something goes wrong and nobody wants to be the one to call a halt. I've got pretty good at getting a thick skin. The absolute worst for me was with a well known, long lasting music group, popular in the 70s and still going. A show at a theatre - 1400 sold out seats, and there was a problem at the end of the first half and the show could not continue. I had to walk out in front of the fans and say that due to reasons beyond our control the show was over, and NOT mention that as we'd completed the first half, they wouldn't be getting a refund!

Your friend didn't have the courage to stop it for some reason, but it's actually worse to know you need a take 2, but let them complete a useless take 1. The person doing it feels very cheated. Stopping them is annoying, but they do understand. doing nothing is the sign of insecurity. However - if he'd beens topped as soon as he started, not would have been a minor issue. Clearly he knew little about how it's done, and nor does she by the sound of it. In a way it's worse Ryan because she knows you and should have dealt with this for you, as you don't like the confrontational aspects.

A bit mean really.
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Old August 20th, 2019, 12:29 PM   #18
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Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend?

Okay thanks. I just felt she was the boss and if she says no interrupting, than what she says goes. But if i shouldnt let her complete a useless take, what should i do? When i advised her that we should stop and reset she gave me this ' no please dont' look, like i was really putting her in a bad spot if i were to stop him. So what should i do then?
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Old August 20th, 2019, 01:04 PM   #19
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Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend?

Make your point, quietly and perhaps in her ear. "we're not recording this, what do you want to do?" Do NOT take the blame. "I wish you'd told me he was going to do this" or "Next time remember it takes 20 seconds to get into record, so don't get hime to do things until I say I'm ready"

If you are going on a trek - tell them both that when they get to the location you need at least five minutes to setup. Tell them early and make it very clear how you need to work.
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Old August 20th, 2019, 01:33 PM   #20
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Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Elder View Post
I am making a nature documentary corporate video project. I am doing it for a friend, for pretty much free actually just to get another project under my belt and for the experience.
Ok, so YOU make the documentary, YOU are the DP!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Elder View Post
As part of this nature documentary, my friend who I am doing it for, arranged to have this person come out and speak about it for an interview. Me and my friend discussed how the interview was going to go and she said that she wanted the speaker to speak directly into the camera as if he is hosting it, just for about maybe 20 minutes. I asked if we are going to ask him questions, and she said no, he will just speak as if he is hosting, and we'll cut back to him looking into the camera every so often. So we agreed to do it that way.
Ok, so you were informed your friend wanted an interview and you agreed on doing an interview.

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My friend then said to me that I'm suppose to be recording him already before he started preying and dancing but I can't wire him for sound while he is preying and dancing.
Really, what part of the term "interview" did your friend not understand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Elder View Post
I asked her, why not call him back to do this properly, since that is what all this was for. But she said that I missed the chance, and that her and nature society payed him to come out there, and it was now a waste of money possibly, since I got terrible quality audio as a result, and didn't even get the whole thing. So he left and she wouldn't ask him to do another round of it, and that was that.
Uh no, SHE missed her chance by not properly informing you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Elder View Post
So did I handle this wrong though?
If it went the way you characterize it then no you have nothing to blame.

You should let your friend know you make the doc, you are the DP and you and her need to discuss things BEFORE you start shooting scenes.
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Old August 20th, 2019, 04:00 PM   #21
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Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend?

Ryan, homie, there is this weird thing that psychologists can explain better than I can where often, when you work for free, instead of being grateful to the ends of the earth and trying to make your job as pleasant as can be, clients treat you like crap (like this) and treat the whole thing as meaningless and like youre a nuisance for being there. I can almost guarantee if she knew your services were costing her $500, $800,,$1500, whatever for the shoot (not to mention post production) you would have several detailed meetings and had everything nailed down. Itís weird.
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Old August 20th, 2019, 05:01 PM   #22
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Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend?

While all of that might be true I think Ryan takes a passive role. If at any point during the day he introduced himself and discussed the interview with the subject (which is standard procedure) he would have discovered that things had changed and he didn’t feel comfortable doing an interview or that he would first do the ceremony. “Hi I’m Ryan I’m going to interview you, I need a few minutes to setup and I’ll mic you.” Even when he first started the ceremony “I’m sorry to interrupt I’m not ready. I thought I was going to interview you?”

Last minute changes happen all the time. His friend must have had a conversation beforehand. Yeah she should have said something but I do many events where it’s no one’s job to hold your hand, be aware, asking questions and be involved in what going on. Who’s fault is it if you’re not engaged in the process. Who’s the professional Ryan or his friend? She probably doesn’t know the first thing about filming and yet he differed to her.
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Old August 20th, 2019, 08:51 PM   #23
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Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend?

Oh okay, while he was praying I said to her we should stop him and so I can make him and set the camera up and she kept saying no, its too late to interrupt him . I made like I was going to and she shushed me. I could tell from her reaction that she was going to not like if I did so I decided to shoot him without interrupting him. Should I have just done it anyway, even if she would have been embarrassed or mad about it?

I figured well if she doesn't want me to, she's the boss and her's thing, unless that was the wrong way to look at it.

The reason why I didn't talk to him during the hike, is because I was shooting the mic from further away, cause she wanted footage of the hike, so I thought I would just talk to him after I had gotten some good footage of the hike. But then he started preying and she said it was too late now.
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Old August 20th, 2019, 09:27 PM   #24
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Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Elder View Post
Oh okay, while he was praying I said to her we should stop him and so I can make him and set the camera up and she kept saying no, its too late to interrupt him . I made like I was going to and she shushed me.
Well, that I can understand.
You obviously do not interrupt anyone who is praying!
It's not an act that you can do with takes.

But the root of the problem was miscommunication, who introduced the word "interview"?
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Old August 20th, 2019, 11:23 PM   #25
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Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend?

I think she did on our meeting a few days before shooting, if I recall correct.

And that's the thing though, is how do you get someone who is religious to pray as if they are doing takes and following direction for camera?

I thought well if she doesn't want to interrupt him, I will just wait till he is done, and then ask to ask him do it again, after I've set up, but she wouldn't.

I was thinking maybe I can suggest to her to get him back in to do ADR over some of his lines, and the rest can be just voice overs, but will he have a problem doing ADR and voice overs for prayers do you think?
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Old August 21st, 2019, 12:07 AM   #26
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Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend?

And SHE let him go, knowing you had nothing. Next time, Ryan, be busy and unavailable. She also wasted your time don't forget. You seem to have loads of film making friends who know nothing about making films. How important is what you learn from them? You're learning lots of problems that's for sure! Our friend made a real mess of this one. I would simply forget all about it and get on with other things. Leave solving this one to your friend, as its her problem, not yours. She might threaten not to pay you ...... But of course she can't do that, because she isn't!
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Old August 21st, 2019, 01:19 AM   #27
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Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend?

All the advice here is solid. I can only add that I believe the woman is an incompetent client given that she didn't communicate those late changes to you - a fairly straight forward matter.

Not the first time a 'nature hippie' has had marshmallow for brains. The nature (forgive the pun) of their modus operandi keeps them from having to grapple with proper critical thinking. Fire her as a client and never waste your time again. Firing her is more empowering than you will realise right now, so just do it.

Andrew
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Old August 21st, 2019, 10:13 PM   #28
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Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend?

Okay thanks. Well I want to finish it cause I don't want to have the reputation going around as someone who quits half way through though.

She said she wants to interview some more people for it now. I was thinking telling her from now on I should be all set up before bringing the person in just to make absolutely sure that nothing goes wrong. It would mean that if she wanted to do in a specific spot deep in the forrest, that she would have to make two hiking trips. One to get me there to set up beforehand, and the other for her to go back and bring the speaker back to me once they arrive.

It's double the trips but it's worth it cause it means a lot less will go wrong, so is it too much of me to ask her for that?
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Old August 21st, 2019, 10:44 PM   #29
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Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend?

My only advice is whatever you decide, decide it IN WRITING. Email is at least something, but a simple contract would clarify for everybody what's expected when so that you can say to her, should something like the original incident happen again, "Look, madam, it says RIGHT HERE that were were supposed to do THIS, and you were to inform me of any changes to that plan."

Dig?
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Old August 22nd, 2019, 12:11 AM   #30
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Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Elder View Post
She said she wants to interview some more people for it now.
Sounds like scope creep to me, and beyond the initial indication from her of what will be involved. You may well never escape form this slow motion horror.

Recommend that you reply with "Unfortunately I have not set aside room in my schedule for this as I didn't know about it prior. Here are your video files from what has been shot to date. This will ensure that your project is not hampered by my non-availability. Your next cameraman or editor will be able to immediately make use of them."

Yup. Get out as fast as you can. Run!

Andrew
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