How should I handle this problem with a client and friend?

Josh Bass · September 8th, 2019, 02:10 AM

I think there was another thread all about that topic...recording Foley or hard Fx or whatever the proper terminology is on location vs studio to save time in post.

Ryan Elder · September 8th, 2019, 11:50 AM

I tried to mic him but the nature society person intervened. I think it was because of his religion he didn't want to be miced, and just started preying and dancing before letting me mic him.

It was too windy that day for the DSLR internal mic to record anything, and if you listen to the sound on it, all you can hear is distorted wind and you cannot hear what he is saying. The mic sound would have worked though, cause I miced another person for an interview before in the shoot, and it sounded well.

Paul R Johnson · September 8th, 2019, 12:48 PM

Crazy! What exactly did the nature society person think was going on?

I'm not clear what you'd be going back for? If you have decent footage, then record the voiceover anywhere that sounds good and is quiet and convenient for both. Do you have any voiceover material recorded? As in audio with no matching face in picture. If you don't have any - then record your entire VO in one place to maintain audio consistency. As for miking - it really needs planning before you do anything. You can slap mics on religious people with no problems at all if you do it with due reference for their status. I've done Catholic, Protestant and Muslim folk with no bother whatsoever, and I've even put mics on naked people at a naturist convention. It just needs you to be professional, explain what you need to happen and find a way to do it.

Josh Bass · September 8th, 2019, 01:41 PM

I have a feeling hes going to try to go back and recreate the religious man’s audio.

Ryan Elder · September 8th, 2019, 02:37 PM

I don't know about 'recreate', but the idea was to have just the footage of him preying and dancing with a separate narrator, talking about what he is doing. If that sounds good?

Josh Bass · September 8th, 2019, 03:25 PM

But the narrator is supposed to sound like theyre outside next to you guys, which is why you want to record the vo out there?

No I do not think that sounds good. It sounds weird. If youre going to have vo justrecord it in a quiet place and get as clean a recording as you can.

If you just need ambient or nat sound from the location to lay underneath the vo, that makes a little more sense, but you could still probably do that with stock sound effects instead of going back there.

Ryan Elder · September 8th, 2019, 07:13 PM

Well if they decide for the narrator to be the person who has been speaking into the camera the whole time while out there so far, than I will need to match his previous narration which has already been recorded while we were out there, wouldn't I?

But if they decide to go with a different narrator, than I won't.

Josh Bass · September 8th, 2019, 10:48 PM

I don't understand... they have other videos where someone is out there talking? Do you mean on camera?

Ryan Elder · September 8th, 2019, 10:51 PM

I shot a video before out their, with one of them talking, saying what is happening. They may get him again or they may get someone else to narrate the parts of the guy doing his prayer, not sure. If that makes sense?

Josh Bass · September 8th, 2019, 11:22 PM

That makes sense, but you mentioned voiceover. If guy is shown on camera that is not a voiceover. Even if you occasionally cut to other footage, if you cut back to guy occasionally, I wouldn't consider that voiceover. If you never show him on camera, there is no reason to record out there.

Ryan Elder · September 9th, 2019, 07:01 AM

Oh okay I thought if he's not in the same scene with the preying guy, and just doing the voice, it then counts as voice over for that section. But if they get a new person, then no, I won't need to go back out there.

Josh Bass · September 9th, 2019, 08:07 AM

In this particular video you are doing, if your narrator appears on camera, then you record them at the location (or wherever). If they never appear on camera IN THIS VIDEO, then record the narration somewhere quiet. If it’s a mix, like he appears at the beginning for a minute and a half and we never see him again or only see him at the end for another minute, but there’s five minutes in between where we see b-roll over his voice, it would probably make more sense to get everything that isnt on camera somewhere quiet. Yes itll be inconsistent but outdoor audio sounds a lot more distracting when youre not looking at the person speaking. When youre looking at footage of a bird but hearing someone talking, all that wind noise, traffic, birds chirping etc becomes much more annoying. Its acceptable when you see the guy talking in that environment, annoying when looking at something else.

Just find probably any nature doc and theyll cut between the nasty location audio and the pristine vo. People are used to it.

Brian Drysdale · September 10th, 2019, 12:49 AM

You should watch the BBC wild life programs, where it's common for a presenter to talk to camera on location and then then do the voice overs in the "studio" during post.

The same convention also applies to all TV programmes and TV news, they don't go back to locations for the voice over, which can be recorded a couple of years later in another part of the world.

If the "narrator" is appearing in shot speaking, that's fine, they are now either a presenter or a reporter, they are no longer a pure "narrator" (who only does the VO). This may may or may not involve them talking to the camera, but also interacting with the subject(s). This is common practice in documentaries.

You always need to be ready for the unexpected and grab them with both hands, because those moments are what will make the difference between the average and the good or even excellent.

Ryan Elder · September 10th, 2019, 04:46 AM

Oh okay. I just thought that if they have parts of the voice over from the location, and parts of it, from a studio, than it wouldn't match and you would hear it switch back and forth between the two, during the edit...

Brian Drysdale · September 10th, 2019, 05:11 AM

It's all in how you edit it.

You can get them to redo the voice over if it's not directly connected with their physical presence at the location. If it's them performing something you can use it with physically unconnected, but are emotionally connected visuals. You can use the location audio as long as the audience are aware that the person is speaking on location because you've established them there for this section of VO.

I would look at various TV documentaries for this.

September 8th, 2019, 02:10 AM	#46
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend? I think there was another thread all about that topic...recording Foley or hard Fx or whatever the proper terminology is on location vs studio to save time in post. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

September 8th, 2019, 11:50 AM	#47
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend? I tried to mic him but the nature society person intervened. I think it was because of his religion he didn't want to be miced, and just started preying and dancing before letting me mic him. It was too windy that day for the DSLR internal mic to record anything, and if you listen to the sound on it, all you can hear is distorted wind and you cannot hear what he is saying. The mic sound would have worked though, cause I miced another person for an interview before in the shoot, and it sounded well.

September 8th, 2019, 12:48 PM	#48
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,015	Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend? Crazy! What exactly did the nature society person think was going on? I'm not clear what you'd be going back for? If you have decent footage, then record the voiceover anywhere that sounds good and is quiet and convenient for both. Do you have any voiceover material recorded? As in audio with no matching face in picture. If you don't have any - then record your entire VO in one place to maintain audio consistency. As for miking - it really needs planning before you do anything. You can slap mics on religious people with no problems at all if you do it with due reference for their status. I've done Catholic, Protestant and Muslim folk with no bother whatsoever, and I've even put mics on naked people at a naturist convention. It just needs you to be professional, explain what you need to happen and find a way to do it.

September 8th, 2019, 01:41 PM	#49
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend? I have a feeling hes going to try to go back and recreate the religious man’s audio. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

September 8th, 2019, 02:37 PM	#50
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend? I don't know about 'recreate', but the idea was to have just the footage of him preying and dancing with a separate narrator, talking about what he is doing. If that sounds good?

September 8th, 2019, 03:25 PM	#51
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend? But the narrator is supposed to sound like theyre outside next to you guys, which is why you want to record the vo out there? No I do not think that sounds good. It sounds weird. If youre going to have vo justrecord it in a quiet place and get as clean a recording as you can. If you just need ambient or nat sound from the location to lay underneath the vo, that makes a little more sense, but you could still probably do that with stock sound effects instead of going back there. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

September 8th, 2019, 07:13 PM	#52
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend? Well if they decide for the narrator to be the person who has been speaking into the camera the whole time while out there so far, than I will need to match his previous narration which has already been recorded while we were out there, wouldn't I? But if they decide to go with a different narrator, than I won't.

September 8th, 2019, 10:48 PM	#53
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend? I don't understand... they have other videos where someone is out there talking? Do you mean on camera? __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

September 8th, 2019, 10:51 PM	#54
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend? I shot a video before out their, with one of them talking, saying what is happening. They may get him again or they may get someone else to narrate the parts of the guy doing his prayer, not sure. If that makes sense?

September 8th, 2019, 11:22 PM	#55
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend? That makes sense, but you mentioned voiceover. If guy is shown on camera that is not a voiceover. Even if you occasionally cut to other footage, if you cut back to guy occasionally, I wouldn't consider that voiceover. If you never show him on camera, there is no reason to record out there. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

September 9th, 2019, 07:01 AM	#56
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend? Oh okay I thought if he's not in the same scene with the preying guy, and just doing the voice, it then counts as voice over for that section. But if they get a new person, then no, I won't need to go back out there.

September 9th, 2019, 08:07 AM	#57
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend? In this particular video you are doing, if your narrator appears on camera, then you record them at the location (or wherever). If they never appear on camera IN THIS VIDEO, then record the narration somewhere quiet. If it’s a mix, like he appears at the beginning for a minute and a half and we never see him again or only see him at the end for another minute, but there’s five minutes in between where we see b-roll over his voice, it would probably make more sense to get everything that isnt on camera somewhere quiet. Yes itll be inconsistent but outdoor audio sounds a lot more distracting when youre not looking at the person speaking. When youre looking at footage of a bird but hearing someone talking, all that wind noise, traffic, birds chirping etc becomes much more annoying. Its acceptable when you see the guy talking in that environment, annoying when looking at something else. Just find probably any nature doc and theyll cut between the nasty location audio and the pristine vo. People are used to it. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

September 10th, 2019, 12:49 AM	#58
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend? You should watch the BBC wild life programs, where it's common for a presenter to talk to camera on location and then then do the voice overs in the "studio" during post. The same convention also applies to all TV programmes and TV news, they don't go back to locations for the voice over, which can be recorded a couple of years later in another part of the world. If the "narrator" is appearing in shot speaking, that's fine, they are now either a presenter or a reporter, they are no longer a pure "narrator" (who only does the VO). This may may or may not involve them talking to the camera, but also interacting with the subject(s). This is common practice in documentaries. You always need to be ready for the unexpected and grab them with both hands, because those moments are what will make the difference between the average and the good or even excellent. Last edited by Brian Drysdale; September 10th, 2019 at 02:56 AM.

September 10th, 2019, 04:46 AM	#59
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend? Oh okay. I just thought that if they have parts of the voice over from the location, and parts of it, from a studio, than it wouldn't match and you would hear it switch back and forth between the two, during the edit...

September 10th, 2019, 05:11 AM	#60
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend? It's all in how you edit it. You can get them to redo the voice over if it's not directly connected with their physical presence at the location. If it's them performing something you can use it with physically unconnected, but are emotionally connected visuals. You can use the location audio as long as the audience are aware that the person is speaking on location because you've established them there for this section of VO. I would look at various TV documentaries for this.