How should I handle this problem with a client and friend?

Ryan Elder · August 26th, 2019, 11:07 PM

Okay thanks. Actually the last shoot went better than I thought it would and it looks like this thing is turning around. So depending on her and her organizations reactions, I will wait and see perhaps...

Andrew Smith · August 27th, 2019, 11:32 PM

The last shoot??? You mean you haven't left yet?

This is an even better time to "get out as fast as you can" since you are leaving on good terms.

Andrew

PS. Try getting her to spend hours of her time doing something you need, such as housework etc. And be able to add on extra days of work as you decide that you need to have additional work done. For free.

David Barnett · August 30th, 2019, 10:04 AM

I'll add 'more shoots'? I thought this was for free.

I read here years ago back in the Craigslist Years & it still holds true, "Free work only leads to free work'. You're wasting your time on this. I mean, maybe it'll work out but they sound like a total amatuer. How do you think this thing will be put together and edited? Well? And marketing? Just a YT/FB video with 400 views.

Wish you well man, but I would not nor never (unless very legit charity/organization/cause) work multiple days for free. Many here have warned you.

Josh Bass · August 30th, 2019, 10:59 AM

I think Ryan’s also editing it.

Pete Cofrancesco · August 30th, 2019, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Barnett

I'll add 'more shoots'? I thought this was for free.

I read here years ago back in the Craigslist Years & it still holds true, "Free work only leads to free work'. You're wasting your time on this. I mean, maybe it'll work out but they sound like a total amatuer. How do you think this thing will be put together and edited? Well? And marketing? Just a YT/FB video with 400 views.

Wish you well man, but I would not nor never (unless very legit charity/organization/cause) work multiple days for free. Many here have warned you.

Normally I’d agree but Ryan strikes me as green as green can be. If he can learn anything from this free project then it was worth. Working with your buddies on your own personal indie film (which I believe what he has been doing) will leave you woefully unprepared for real world paying jobs. Better to f-up on a free gig or your paid gig will become free after you refund the client and damage your reputation in the process.

Normally this job would have made more sense if his goal was to become a wildlife filmmaker. He would be gaining valuable experience on the process and equipment needed.

David Barnett · August 30th, 2019, 12:17 PM

Fair point.

Andrew Smith · August 30th, 2019, 10:51 PM

Gentlemen, we have all spoken at length and I would now like to propose a toast.

SFX: beers being grabbed from their icy surrounds

"At toast, to young Ryan and his forthcoming disaster. May he learn well."

CROWD: Hear hear!

:-)

Andrew

Ryan Elder · September 2nd, 2019, 07:17 PM

Yeah I'm editing it as well. I think shooting is done now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Cofrancesco

Normally I’d agree but Ryan strikes me as green as green can be. If he can learn anything from this free project then it was worth. Working with your buddies on your own personal indie film (which I believe what he has been doing) will leave you woefully unprepared for real world paying jobs. Better to f-up on a free gig or your paid gig will become free after you refund the client and damage your reputation in the process.

Normally this job would have made more sense if his goal was to become a wildlife filmmaker. He would be gaining valuable experience on the process and equipment needed.

By green as green can be are you saying you think I may be rich?

Paul R Johnson · September 3rd, 2019, 12:03 AM

ER, no. Green as in a new shoot, with no idea how far away the sky actually is!

Josh Bass · September 3rd, 2019, 12:31 AM

to clarify, green in this case means new to something or inexperienced.

Ryan Elder · September 6th, 2019, 05:10 PM

Oh okay. Well the shoot is going a lot better now, I think, and hopefully the final edit will turn out well. I might have to do go back to the location to get some of the voice over to match, but I think shooting is done.

Andrew Smith · September 6th, 2019, 10:02 PM

Is there a "finish point" in the production that has been nominated and agreed to?

Andrew

Paul R Johnson · September 7th, 2019, 02:43 AM

Why would you need to return? Actually I'm just wondering? You did the voice over on location?

Assuming you did - which is a bit weird, then you probably don't need to go back if you have ten seconds or more of sound recorded on location with no speaking - you just produce a loop track, then go somewhere close and as silent as possible and record your voice over extras there, then blend the location sound loop with it. Assuming the looped clip doesn't;t have any regular sound like a bird chirping, which wrecks it, you can just use this to match the audio.

Personally - every time I have recorded dialogue on location it never works, because often you simply don't know what it should say until you see the edit. The only time it worked for me was a very late night shoot where the VO was a whispered commentary on what we could see in the night vision. I still thought it would have been better done back at base, but it did work.

Ryan Elder · September 8th, 2019, 01:01 AM

Oh I would just go back to get the reverb of the sound bouncing off the hills to match, as oppose to trying to create the reverb using digital effects. I thought going back there to record it, could save me time, if it would work.

Why wouldn't the dialogue recorded on location work though?

As for a finish point, shooting is suppose to be done, so I think we are good and have enough, it's just I am waiting to hear back from me on a draft I edited.

Paul R Johnson · September 8th, 2019, 01:44 AM

Ryan, you're joking aren't you? Please say yes. Reverb bouncing off hills? As in echo reflecting off rocks? If you're serious, we better start a new topic on the problems of recording voice overs. The reason movies don't record dialogue on location and spend ages in time and money rerecording it is because locations sound is rarely good enough to use. This applies to voice overs too. Out in the real world, even in wilderness, it's seldom quiet, or controlled. You have a bit of googling to do. Reverb and echo. Both relocation based but they sound TOTALLY different, and their mechanism is different too. My mouth dropped when you said reverb from the hills.

There are two elements. If you clap your hands in your living room at home, your recording shows a clear peak when you clapped followed by the arrival of reflections. It also contains that pesky clock ticking in the room next door, the odd dog barking a road away and an airliner passing at 30000ft. In your studio you have the clap and minimal relations, no clock, plane or dogs. Back to your woodland area and you need to recreate the sound so your contaminated voice over matches. Those crickets might not be chirping, the dog might be a heard of cows and maybe the bunch of frogs have moved in. Surely if you MUST use the original, you can recreate from out takes, enough of this rubbish to sort it out. If you recorded down a cavern, then you'd need reverb and electronic effects, but you went somewhere with a real echo, not reverb????.

A classic Ryan u-turn with suddenly critical info being slipped in right at the end.

You really did record your audio in a canyon with a distinct echo? Your film school really did an awful job on your course. I wonder what on earth the course covered, because they seem to have missed out so many critical areas, and now they didn't even cover why voice overs are recorded in studios and not live, and I assume dialogue wasn't covered properly either. Sounds like a course designed by Mickey Mouse, all pizazz and no proper content.

August 26th, 2019, 11:07 PM	#31
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend? Okay thanks. Actually the last shoot went better than I thought it would and it looks like this thing is turning around. So depending on her and her organizations reactions, I will wait and see perhaps...

August 27th, 2019, 11:32 PM	#32
Andrew Smith Equal Opportunity Offender Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,016	Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend? The last shoot??? You mean you haven't left yet? This is an even better time to "get out as fast as you can" since you are leaving on good terms. Andrew PS. Try getting her to spend hours of her time doing something you need, such as housework etc. And be able to add on extra days of work as you decide that you need to have additional work done. For free.

August 30th, 2019, 10:04 AM	#33
David Barnett Major Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Philly, PA Posts: 951	Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend? I'll add 'more shoots'? I thought this was for free. I read here years ago back in the Craigslist Years & it still holds true, "Free work only leads to free work'. You're wasting your time on this. I mean, maybe it'll work out but they sound like a total amatuer. How do you think this thing will be put together and edited? Well? And marketing? Just a YT/FB video with 400 views. Wish you well man, but I would not nor never (unless very legit charity/organization/cause) work multiple days for free. Many here have warned you.

August 30th, 2019, 10:59 AM	#34
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend? I think Ryan’s also editing it. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

August 30th, 2019, 12:17 PM	#36
David Barnett Major Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Philly, PA Posts: 951	Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend? Fair point.

August 30th, 2019, 10:51 PM	#37
Andrew Smith Equal Opportunity Offender Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,016	Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend? Gentlemen, we have all spoken at length and I would now like to propose a toast. SFX: beers being grabbed from their icy surrounds "At toast, to young Ryan and his forthcoming disaster. May he learn well." CROWD: Hear hear! :-) Andrew

September 3rd, 2019, 12:03 AM	#39
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,016	Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend? ER, no. Green as in a new shoot, with no idea how far away the sky actually is!

September 3rd, 2019, 12:31 AM	#40
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend? to clarify, green in this case means new to something or inexperienced. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

September 6th, 2019, 05:10 PM	#41
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend? Oh okay. Well the shoot is going a lot better now, I think, and hopefully the final edit will turn out well. I might have to do go back to the location to get some of the voice over to match, but I think shooting is done.

September 6th, 2019, 10:02 PM	#42
Andrew Smith Equal Opportunity Offender Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,016	Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend? Is there a "finish point" in the production that has been nominated and agreed to? Andrew

September 7th, 2019, 02:43 AM	#43
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,016	Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend? Why would you need to return? Actually I'm just wondering? You did the voice over on location? Assuming you did - which is a bit weird, then you probably don't need to go back if you have ten seconds or more of sound recorded on location with no speaking - you just produce a loop track, then go somewhere close and as silent as possible and record your voice over extras there, then blend the location sound loop with it. Assuming the looped clip doesn't;t have any regular sound like a bird chirping, which wrecks it, you can just use this to match the audio. Personally - every time I have recorded dialogue on location it never works, because often you simply don't know what it should say until you see the edit. The only time it worked for me was a very late night shoot where the VO was a whispered commentary on what we could see in the night vision. I still thought it would have been better done back at base, but it did work.

September 8th, 2019, 01:01 AM	#44
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend? Oh I would just go back to get the reverb of the sound bouncing off the hills to match, as oppose to trying to create the reverb using digital effects. I thought going back there to record it, could save me time, if it would work. Why wouldn't the dialogue recorded on location work though? As for a finish point, shooting is suppose to be done, so I think we are good and have enough, it's just I am waiting to hear back from me on a draft I edited.

September 8th, 2019, 01:44 AM	#45
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,016	Re: How should I handle this problem with a client and friend? Ryan, you're joking aren't you? Please say yes. Reverb bouncing off hills? As in echo reflecting off rocks? If you're serious, we better start a new topic on the problems of recording voice overs. The reason movies don't record dialogue on location and spend ages in time and money rerecording it is because locations sound is rarely good enough to use. This applies to voice overs too. Out in the real world, even in wilderness, it's seldom quiet, or controlled. You have a bit of googling to do. Reverb and echo. Both relocation based but they sound TOTALLY different, and their mechanism is different too. My mouth dropped when you said reverb from the hills. There are two elements. If you clap your hands in your living room at home, your recording shows a clear peak when you clapped followed by the arrival of reflections. It also contains that pesky clock ticking in the room next door, the odd dog barking a road away and an airliner passing at 30000ft. In your studio you have the clap and minimal relations, no clock, plane or dogs. Back to your woodland area and you need to recreate the sound so your contaminated voice over matches. Those crickets might not be chirping, the dog might be a heard of cows and maybe the bunch of frogs have moved in. Surely if you MUST use the original, you can recreate from out takes, enough of this rubbish to sort it out. If you recorded down a cavern, then you'd need reverb and electronic effects, but you went somewhere with a real echo, not reverb????. A classic Ryan u-turn with suddenly critical info being slipped in right at the end. You really did record your audio in a canyon with a distinct echo? Your film school really did an awful job on your course. I wonder what on earth the course covered, because they seem to have missed out so many critical areas, and now they didn't even cover why voice overs are recorded in studios and not live, and I assume dialogue wasn't covered properly either. Sounds like a course designed by Mickey Mouse, all pizazz and no proper content.