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-   -   Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding? (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/techniques-independent-production/537015-frameforge-worth-buying-storyboarding.html)

Brian Drysdale November 9th, 2019 03:02 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
Visual story telling comes from the script and the director, not the DP, they can only work with what they're given. If you've got a dialogue heavy script, a tight schedule and limited resources there is just so much a DP can do in making a film visual. They can only work with what they've got.

How well any film will progress your career depends very much on you, your own talents as a film maker and how much networking you're willing to do outside your group. Quite a few people have had successful careers and they've never directed a feature film, but they're good at networking.

Have any of your short films been shown at film festivals? These are the early stages of networking and seeing how well audiences (who don't know you) react to your films. That's quite apart from you seemingly not having picked up some of the basic stuff that film students I've assisted on their graduation films know.

As for moving, didn't you ask about this in another thread?

Regarding making a first feature film. I would throw away any thriller cliches, root it in the area where you live, so it has a sense of place with interesting characters. They may be exaggerated but "Fargo", "Insomnia" is where you should be aiming or "Trapped" a Nordic noir set in Iceland. Audiences will forgive a lot if you take them somewhere they haven't been before.

Pete Cofrancesco November 9th, 2019 08:04 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder (Post 1954663)
Oh okay, well I thought I could improve on those areas in the next project for sure. Could I do better with visual storytelling if I had the right DP do you think?

I've helped others make their features but they said it was worth it for their careers to make theirs, and one of them even got distribution, so they aren't regretting it, so I feel I wouldn't either therefore.

I can move out of the area, I just need to get a job that can pay well enough to live in such a costly city. But I can start looking again. Should I make the feature in a different city, or move before making it do you think?

The whole point of doing this film is to showcase your skills as a director. Since I doubt your area is a hot bed of professional cinema there probably aren’t many if any paid movie director position you could apply for. That means you have to move to wherever director jobs are available. I’d imagine the most common approach is move, get a minimum wage job to support yourself while you’re applying. This process could take a very long time.

If I were to guess your plan is: make a movie, win a film festival award, distribute it, and then investors will be knocking on your door to back your next project.

I don’t think you’ve spent much time thinking about the realities of pursuing a career as a director, the steps you have to take along with what it would take to land such a job. This is why we keep stressing get an unbiased professional to evaluate you and your work before going down this road.

Ryan Elder November 9th, 2019 04:39 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
Oh yeah I could move to a city like Vancouver where there is a lot more film work, and get another job while applying for directing jobs. However, Vancouver is so costly to live in that minimum wage would not be near enough to live off of. I would need a really well paying job to have in the mean time, and haven't found one yet, but I've been looking.

I thought if I had a feature under my belt though, that I could apply for directing jobs more successfully compared to not having one at all. I didn't think investors would be knocking on my door, but I thought that having a feature out there, would definitely help when I applied for jobs myself.

Josh Bass November 9th, 2019 05:44 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
Thing is, I don't think there are really directing jobs out there to apply for. It's not like applying for a regular job on Monster or Indeed (or whatever). That goes for most freelance/video production/film work. Almost everything in the professional tiers, i.e. where you can make a decent living, is a bunch of people who know each other, giving recommendations and word of mouth referrals.

Even if you go to film commission websites with ads seeking, most of the ads are placed BY the director or producer, they're probably looking for everything BUT a director.

Maybe I'm wrong...there are some higher end website with pro project postings that MIGHT have something like that, MAYBE. Those sites usually require a paid membership, and they would probably want verifiable credits of past things you'd worked on, and your own project won't count. They'll want to see you were good enough to be hired by someone else.

Of course there may be writers out there looking to have their scripts directed/produced, but then you'd basically be working at the same tier you are now and make next to nothing and be worked to death for the privilege of doing so.

Ryan Elder November 9th, 2019 06:51 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
Yeah that's what I was thinking too, is that you don't apply for it. So I thought I would do what other directors have done and just produce and direct my own and see if it does well. Then if so, I produce and direct another, etc.

But it was said on here before, that I should move to another city to seek out directing jobs, unless I misunderstood that.

Brian Drysdale November 10th, 2019 02:04 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
What are you going to do as you produce, getting the funding in place? It can take years to get a film off the ground. No/micro budget features are more practice/personal pieces, they have the same budgets as shorts had when they were being shot on film. A couple of my short films had bigger budgets than your feature film project.

The entrance level in production companies is something like runner or researcher or you may get one of the lower grades on location management. You then work your way up as people get to know you. I know one A list executive producer on major feature films who started that way.

You can then make your own films with the advantage of good contacts and the possibility of "mates rates".

The odds are low of getting film directing jobs unless your film does extremely well on the festival circuit and you are relentless in finding and having good scripts ready to go before your film is finished. That's called development hell for good reasons,

Most of the paying directing work will be in TV or higher end corporate work, where they have budgets for crews, however, you do need to be able to think on your feet, although, commonly the DP does all the shots with the director involved in the overview and production aspects,

There's a reasonable number of people who have directed one feature film, but getting the second and third feature film is much harder.

Paul R Johnson November 10th, 2019 02:22 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
Since 2004 when I quit teaching and went back to doing I have never once applied for a job. My younger colleagues might apply for crew roles on the big productions from adverts in the trade press, online and via the various agencies, but more experienced people tend to just be in the loop, and the various opportunities get passed along. I get the emails and phone calls and now pass many on to people I trust. I have never seen anyone advertise for a director, certainly not over here!

Let's face it ryan, a wonderful product says lots about you, but do you have anything that's positive? Why would anyone give you a directing job when you have no track record of even assistant directing, or even as a runner? Let's say somebody wanted a person lower on the pyramid than director. They want a cv/resume with your experience on it. Do you have one? They want to know the name of the last movie you worked on, what your role was and what scale of production it was. For a director, the questions get harder.

Ryan Elder November 10th, 2019 12:19 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
Oh I have a resume of other people's films I worked on as a PA, boom operator and actor. I have references from those filmmakers on the resume, and they keep on using me for their features and shorts, so I figured they must like me enough to keep asking me to come on board. Would that be enough of a track record to get a job other than director?

As for getting a job as a director, or something lower, it seems like some think that the challenge is not worth pursuing, unless the pieces are all conveniently already lined up and ready to go for me. But I think I have to do the challenge, and cannot have everything else going for me, or don't do it at all, if that makes sense.

Brian Drysdale November 10th, 2019 01:47 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
Nothing is going to be "conveniently already lined up" no one is suggesting it will be. If you really want to do it, no one can stop you, however, I would seriously consider upgrading your skills because currently they're about the same as many of the trainees in the industry.

Josh Bass November 10th, 2019 02:10 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
I agree.

How bout this...I know you've said you've worked on quite a few movie projects, some even budgeted. They don't seem to be teaching you much.

So, are there any video production companies in your area? People who works on commercials, corporate, whatever? Like bona fide production companies with paying clients? If so, what if you applied to those places at a bottom level position (no offense)? Intern, production assistant, whatever. They could get you out on some real shoots, though they aren't "films", get you learning proper set methods from real professionals. This stuff would translate at least somewhat to the things you want to do, give you real experience with how projects come together, a set should flow, etc.

Ryan Elder November 10th, 2019 02:32 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
I haven't been applying to video production companies, but independent filmmakers, who were making their own films so far. They have their own companies, if that counts? And I applied for positions they had available. The last feature I worked on as a PA, early this year. I'm currently doing a corporate type video for a client as well, but I haven't seen anyone asking for hiring on corporate videos. People I know who do corporate videos are a one man band and haven't been putting out calls for hiring anyone in my experience.

As for how much I am learning on those shoots, well my style of directing is different than their styles. For example, they only light once, and do the multi-camera thing so far, where as I use a single camera so far, so my approach is different from those I worked under on features. Their shot set ups are also different too. I want to learn how to direct actors better, but I feel like they do a lot with the actors in rehearsals, which I do not get to be a part of as a PA, or boom op, so I've been having trouble learning in that area.

As for the things I have acted on, I didn't get much direction I felt, accept for basic instructions in what to do, just before shooting.

For upgrading my skills, I felt that if I listened to other people who's critiques were to get a much better DP, and camera and lighting crew, and much better actors and do not settle for anything less, that that would really help. Unless it very likely won't?

Brian Drysdale November 10th, 2019 03:11 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
There are one week workshops in North America for people in the film industry, you should invest in some training.


Track 2: Film Production - UCLA School of TFTUCLA School of TFT

There are others that are attended by working professionals.

Josh Bass November 10th, 2019 03:32 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
I do not mean indie filmmakers, I mean production companies that make money from paying clients in the realm of corporate, commercial, etc.

Maybe there simply aren't any in your area. I would start by googling "video production companies Saskatoon" or something similar and see what pops up, then start cold calling. Say you're interested in being a PA, intern, grip, something like that. They probably won't put out ads because almost no one does that in the real production world. Even if it was a one man operation, surely sometimes that person needs a grip or PA, where could freelance for them.

Almost anything would be better than the limbo you seem to be in where you get a lot of questionable advice.

Again, I know this isn't "filmmaking" per se but the idea is to learn the basics, properly, from people who do this for a living. A bigger commercial is basically like ultra short film shoot.

Ryan Elder November 10th, 2019 04:15 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
Oh ok, well I've done that too, and they say if something comes up, they will call me but they haven't. I can apply again.

Brian Drysdale November 10th, 2019 05:07 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
You always need to keep calling in, going in once doesn't mean a thing, it's the repeat visits that count in the end.

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