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-   -   Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding? (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/techniques-independent-production/537015-frameforge-worth-buying-storyboarding.html)

Ryan Elder November 14th, 2019 09:54 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
Oh okay, I didn't think of it as trying to emulate a big motion picture. What would be some movies that would be non-big would you say, then?

I guess I thought, well if I didn't get this script right and cannot generate interest in it, perhaps I should look to direct a script written by someone else then, instead of trying to write another one maybe. Plus I don't think my times trying to break into the industry have a enough material in for a compelling beginning, middle and end. I think you may be seeing my life a lot more interesting than it is, unless I'm missing something :).

Josh Bass November 15th, 2019 12:25 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
I would echo what Pete said and add that taking one of those painful experiences, fictionalizing it (narrative about someone made up going through it, not you), could make for a very personal film that feels real that other people might relate to. Of course you change details, make things up, etc. in the name of artistic license and a better dramatic arc, but if the heart of it is based around something you have real experience with it could still feel very genuine.

Furthermore something that (unless its really exotic like your arm was eaten by a polar bear) would probably be be much more feasible on your tiny budget than a movie with car chases, gun fights, etc.

Ryan Elder November 15th, 2019 12:37 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
Perhaps, but I don't think I am able to make a movie based on personal experience. I think those thngs that are really personal are off limits. I can think about it, but I am really leaning towards no. Plus it might not be good for my reputation, cause you know how nosey people can be if your movie becomes successful, and then you are looked at under a microscope more so. So I thought therefore, maybe I should pick a subject that has nothing to do with me... I can think about it.

But as for things like gun fights, what about the gun shot effects in this film riot video:

Do the gunshots look convincing enough with proper editing? In fact, even in Hollywood movies, they are opting for CGI gun effects in newer movies, and are not using blanks as much anymore I've noticed.

Brian Drysdale November 15th, 2019 02:00 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
If you look under the hood, all the best films or books are based on personal experience to some extent. That's where saying, "if you want to be a good writer, have a bad childhood" comes from. You change the names and create composite characters, even James Bond comes from the personal experiences of Ian Fleming.

Picking open personal emotional scars is what writers do.

Blanks can be dangerous, so you have be careful where you point the gun. so health and safety can be an issue, plus, unless it's in low light, you don't always get much of a flash, you get the smoke. If you're using guns, you should have a qualified armourer to look after them and ensure their safe use. Once guns come out people can go a bit crazy. especially if they're firing blanks.

Much of a gun shot in a film is the sound, so they don't use the real sound, it's a composite effect.

Paul R Johnson November 15th, 2019 10:44 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
Brian's forgotten that from what I know, the US and Canada have a somewhat different attitude on firearms.

I'm the holder of an Explosives Licence, issued to me personally by the Police Service of Northern Ireland - a quite tough to get document that allows me to possess, store and fire small pyrotechnics. Small puffs and bangs. Any use of firearms, real, imitation and even things like starting pistols is rigidly controlled and monitored. The advice he gave to use a proper armourer in a production absolutely essential here. In the US, you can buy a gun with your supermarket shopping with real bullets - which scares the hell out of us.

My own experience with blanks was quite an eye opener. I really didn't think anything came out of them, but it does. I did not know this. They also need to work in the case of automatics, don't they - to load the next blank. Not being remotely gun savvy, in that clip I found them quite believable - no idea if they were real or toys with good CGI, but I didn't laugh - which I normally do with bad CGI.

Guns still scare me though! Having armourers, sword fight instructors and flight scenes always brings me out in a rash of paperwork - hate it!

Ryan Elder November 15th, 2019 11:00 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
Oh I didn't mean to imply that I would use blanks. What I meant is that several movies and TV shows nowadays don't use blanks, and use CGI effects, like in the film riot video. Couldn't I just use something like that?

For exampe, the show Fargo, is a current hit show, and they use CGI gun effects. Like in this scene:

Could I just do that instead to save a lot of money compared to blanks and squibs, since that show got away with it and viewers didn't care that it was CGI?

Paul R Johnson November 15th, 2019 11:24 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
Well I thought that pretty rubbish to be honest, and is doing CGI another of your skills? you've never mentioned it before, but you'd need to be much better to convince me, the total non-expert that they were real!

Ryan Elder November 15th, 2019 11:26 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
No but I know others I have worked with before who have done it. But if it's rubbish, then why is the show such a hit then, and was never called out on bad special effects?

What about the gunshots I had in the short film I posted on here before? The CGI muzzleflash from the gun happens at 7:23 into clip:

Is that muzzleflash convincing look enough?

Brian Drysdale November 15th, 2019 11:45 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
It's up to you to decide if CGI gunshots look right for your film, we're not directing it.

The quality of the gunshots will depend on the people doing your visual effects, there's no point in showing productions that have way larger budgets and use effects people who specialise in creating CGI. Your total budget probably wouldn't cover their catering costs, so you need to test your effects people, otherwise it's fantasy film making.

Paul R Johnson November 15th, 2019 11:51 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
The first one yes, second one, in a more close up angle, no.

Ryan Elder November 15th, 2019 11:53 AM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
Okay well in my observations, I would say the CGI muzzleflashes look real enough but not the CGI blood.

Film riot also did a tutorial on how to do do gunshot blood splatter but having a pack of blood behind your shirt, and shooting the blood out with air pressure. They show it at about 7:50 into the video:

So I thought it would be realistic enough looking to use CGI muzzleflashes, with the practical blood effects they use. The one thing I haven't figured out yet is the smoke from the gunshot, but in the videos I did before, people said they didn't notice smoke lacking as lack as I shoot and edit right, if that's true... There is smoke you can add into the footage, but all the smoke effects I have, the smoke dissipates way too quickly. I can try to put it in slow motion, using a slow motion program like twixter maybe, and see how that looks.

Ryan Elder November 15th, 2019 12:12 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson (Post 1954854)
The first one yes, second one, in a more close up angle, no.

Oh okay, is the second in the close up too exaggerated, compared to the first?

Paul R Johnson November 15th, 2019 12:14 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
When I was teaching media studies, I had two very keen students - always first in last out. always booking the studio and edit suites and we let them have a pretty free reign.

One day they asked if they could use the studio after college to finish a scene. I said yes, without any real thought. I went in to see how they were doing and my jaw dropped in horror - and I ran in panicking and stopped what they were doing. The scene was a guy having his belly sliced open by a samurai with a sword.

They had marked the floor with tape, and with the camera running one slashed, and missed. Then they'd move in to the next mark and do it again, until the blade slashed through the shirt cutting into the bag of offal they had bought from the nearby butchers.

I couldn't believe they were so stupid and put a stop to it. They shrugged and said "OK then, we'll go with the one we shot yesterday" . Same setup but not enough offal!!!!!

Scared me seriously how dangerous this was. Secretly I had to admire how good the previous shot was when they showed me. I told them if anyone asked, for goodness say it was CGI or I would have been fired!

The movie, sadly, was terrible. Awful script, dreadful camerawork and flawed sound. The social effect scene was very realistic - mainly because it was real blood, a real sword and a real slash through the shirt.

Ryan Elder November 15th, 2019 12:18 PM

Re: Is FrameForge worth buying for storyboarding?
Yeah I definitely wouldn't want to do anything like that. I used fake knives before for a previous short and we grinded the blades to be very dull for the knife fight.

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