Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

In this video, they talk about this 3 color rule:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTnwYmEWvPI

However, do a lot of movies use this though? A lot of movies I watch are from the 90s and before, but the video only talks about post 2000 movies. Was this look popular before that even?
I am planning on the look of a current project, and for example, it takes place in the forest so their is going to be green trees, but does green have to be one of the three colors therefore?

Or is that just the color of trees unintentionally, and does not count as one of the 3 intentional colors therefore? I was also thought about using grey as a color, but does that not count, and grey is just a shade, and therefore, I still have 3 to pick, excluding grey?

If I were to go with the three color rule, I can get the actors to wear wardrobe that is only those 3 colors. But would have to control the background more as well, that cannot be changed. I could use qualifiers in da vinci resolve to separate it, or I could just make a LUT with three colors in it, so that everything comes out only in 3 colors if you apply the lut if that would be more controlled. But what do you think?

Thank you for any input! I really appreciate it!

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

This is an old well know practice from the world of fine art painting. Great artists knew this technique intuitively. Complimentary colors and non-complimentary colors. Subtle but subliminal massaging of your brain's response to colors working with and against one another. Complimentary colors being the ones working with one another. Prior to around 2000, the imaging world of grading was primarily that of film grading. The ability to manipulate and color grade the way we do today with digital technology didn't exist. Well, it did but it was a very expensive process reserved for very large budget movies. Star Wars in 1977 being an early example of this type of digital grading. So as I said it was around but very expensive to carry out. Today a different story. Check out the following videos as they may give you a better idea of how complementary colors are used in image grading. Juan Melara's good tutorial shows how effectively the complimentary technique can be used.

The Adobe "Kuler" page that Stu Maschwitz refers to in the video has been replaced by the following Adobe link where you can play to your heart's content to work out what colors will work for your grade.

Chris Young

https://color.adobe.com/create/color-wheel

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

Thanks for youe videos. I actually watched those two before. Those videos only seem to talk about movies with two colors in grade though, orange and teal. Where as if I go for the 3 color rule, I will need 3 of course.

I was thinking of brown, red, and blue, but I might replace the blue with green though.

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

Working with a Triad a combination of Brown/Red/Blue can work and work well together. Brown/ Red/Green a bit harder to grade to because it means you will have to isolate and grade the areas that require a green bias as there is no direct natural visual transition across those colors in the RGB circle. Can definitely be done but more work required. Miller used a pretty saturated version of Brown/Red/Blue in Fury Road to good effect. Right against the recent trend to lower saturation images that tend to rule the movies over the last few years. Miller said it was a conscious decision to push those colors and higher saturation levels mainly to combat the washed-out low sat film looks of late which he didn't like much. Again play around with the:

https://color.adobe.com/create/color-wheel Triad selection.

A quick tickle came up with these three that work easily together, Brown/Red/Blue but trying to get Green in the mix with a natural blend to Brown/Red I found somewhat tricky. I did like the look of "Amalie" which used a Brown/Red/Green grade to great effect.

Chris Young

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

Haven’t we already had a similar discussion before? I find it funny Ryan always gravitates to the most difficult effect to achieve, in this case a tri color grade. What happened to using a blue or star filter? Sounds like you have a lot of time on your hands. Why don’t you film some test footage and practice these techniques instead of asking us? Don’t you have all of winter to figure this out?

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

I often wonder why cameras have a white balance feature any longer when after spending ages getting what to be, well, white, you start to make it blue. Since we invented the new job role of colourist, people sat around wondering which film emulsion to buy, ordered it, and made the movie. Now we have the most bizarre colours, tints and faces. Each movie seems to be coloured to be 'trendy' or 'arty' or just damn odd. I'm often wondering if I shot some video through almost random bits of gel sitting on the shelf, I could pretend it was art?

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

Movies have always looked for ways to separate themselves from tv. Movies also serve as an escape from reality it’s not surprising that you’d want to alter what you get straight out of camera. I don’t have a problem with color grading but like most technologies that become affordable low budget productions there is always lots chances for abuse in the hands of the novice.

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

Oh I didn't know I was trying to achieve the most difficult effect. I just thought it would be a good idea, the 3 color method.

Well I am finding it difficult to practice because I cannot seperate colors in da vinci resolve because I was told before I need a 10 bit camera to do that.

When I bring a DP on, they will probably have their own camera to use, so I need to wait for that 10 bit, before I can separate the colors in post successfully. But I was just planning on the look beforehand, and thought I could put it in the storyboards as well in a storyboarding program. But after looking at more movies, I think I will use blue instead of green.

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

You're joking? Please say it's a joke - you're going too colourise your storyboards?

What on earth would be the point - nobody is interested in grading on a storyboard. I knew you'd misunderstood totally their purpose, and this proves it.

What exactly are you trying to separate the colours for? I'm not an expert in this area at all, but 10 bit does is gives you more data to wrangle. It's similar to when people said you cannot green screen properly in Composite, you needed component. Then we went digital and you couldn't do it properly in SD, you needed HD, you couldn't do it properly in a single chip camera, you needed three chip ones, then we moved to needing 10 bit processing.

They're talking about when you want to work with less than ideal material, so exposure issues, lighting problems, deep shadows - that kind if thing, and if you have noise, because the actual subject didn't translate well to being shot, then the better the subject material technically, the more scope you have.

People with material that is NOT ten bit can still grade it. If you remember you wanted to change the colours of walls and stuff like that - and went on a crazy quest for colours not sensible at all. We thought you had given up, but clearly not. You spend so much thinking time on minute detail and hardly any on getting a good story, a good cast and good locations - these are always compromised, so why start thinking about the grade on a bad production. Get this right and you might not even need a grade!

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

Oh okay, I don't have to color the storyboards, it was just an idea for wardrobe and all, and for my memory but I don't have to. Bun in framforge, the storyboards are colorized, so if it's done in frameforge, than is it such a bad idea?

Well I want to be able to seperate skin tones, so they do not get colored the same thing as other things I want to color. But in order to separate the skin tones, without noise and artifact issues, I need 10 bit, or so I was told here before.

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

Ryan - do you EVER experiment? Instead of misunderstanding what people say, actually try it, and base your opinion on what happens. You have the software, so take a clip and practice. The trouble is sometimes people say things that are funny, and are obviously not meant to be taken as fact - or they same something that is accurate in a particular context, but you add it to your rule book as a generic answer.

There are sources on the net of virtually every format you could want for download - so for goodness sake, try some, test some and produce a conclusion for yourself.

Why on earth would wardrobe want a colourised storyboard. They take great care with colours, and need to deal with real colours, not tweaked ones! Plus of course, print dyes are very different from screen colours.

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

Yes I experiment. But the software cannot separate colors if it was shot in 8 bit, so I have to wait till I a DP comes on board with a 10 bit camera.

Wardrobe does not have to be colorized on a storyboard, but programs like frameforge, have color on the character's clothes, and on the locations. I don't want the DP or PD, becoming confused, when it comes to what colors, so shouldn't I pick the right colors in frameforge, otherwise it will give me the standard colors it starts out with and possibly confuse people?

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

You confuse people all the time. Storyboards have been black and white for years. I have three printers here, they all have different colours, so even if they printed your colourised sheets out, what would be the point.

I’m intrigued by your experiment. You say it couldn’t do it. Explain please. Did it do it badly, if so what did it do. I wonder if you are expecting something you have read or been told about that is impossible with your footage. What I mean is like my comment on keying. People say you need X to be able to key properly, but the real killer is lighting, poorly lit material just wont key properly in any software at any resolution in any bit depth.

If I understand you correctly, you want to take a shot, retain the face colour, but shift a particular hue to a new one, leaving the face untouched? If the face is lit properly and continually then all should be well. You test could simply have been flawed with contamination of the skin colour, and a ten bit camera would have been the same. Let’s have a look at the clip that wont work, and we can all advise.

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

Oh, but how do other movies do it when move and walk through lighting and the lighting shifts? How do the programs still retain the face color?

Well here is an example of me removing the face skin, but I colored the background blue:


However, when I upload to youtube a lot of the noise cannot be seen, on youtube for some reason. But when the movie is in it's original form before it hits youtube, there is a lot of noise in it.

Here is also an example of what the qualifer does to the skin. The first half of this clip is the footage without the skin separated with the qualifer. The second half is the skin separated. Notice how there is black designs throughout the face, because the skin does not seperate properly:


Thanks again for the help! Happy New year everyone!

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

Is this not just the gradients in the selection - have you tried this?
https://www.reddit.com/r/colorists/c...lve_qualifier/

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

In film processing, the start of the three-strip color process was Technicolor which actually used three black and white films that were subsequently colored. I won't explain the process as there is tons of info on the Technicolor process floating around the web. Once all that moved into the digital domain that's where the ability to really play with color 'artistically' in the three-color process really took off.

If you learn to work with the three-color strip process in say Resolve you can at various stages in the node flow create a massive amount of color tint influence individually in each of the R, G, and B channels when you separate them out from your image. At this point, you can also adjust the luminance levels of each channel. Then by using the Compositing Subtract mode in your first Mixer Layers you can then push those mixer layers into a second series of linking nodes and then onto the second series of Mixer Layers where you can use the Compositing Add function. The final output of the second of your Mixer Layers is then stripped of maintaining any luminance and run into a final Mixer Layer then output for final "tweaks".

Using the above process it's not too hard to emulate almost any of the popular three color film looks. Below are three images. #1 is of a full gamut 0-1023 RGB image, take note 8-bit image, that has been manipulated to a 64-960 broadcast video level image using the three-strip color process. Image #2 is a more muted 'older color film' look one might say. That's the result of processing in the three-color strip mode. This particular image has been graded lightly to favor the Brown/Green with Red as an accent color. Notice the red window ledges. The final image #3 is the node flow of how to work within the three-color strip process. To truly emulate the original Technicolor process you need to introduce the three complementary nodes with the colors of Cyan, Magenta and Yellow which these examples don't have.


When you are happy with your results it's then a simple matter of exporting a 3D LUT if you want a quick flow after that. An incredibly flexible powerful workflow as all your manipulation is done in each individual RGB channel without affecting other channels until you recombine with your Composite Add Mixer Layers. What I'm getting at is even if your image is 8-bit by working within the actual individual RGB channels you can output a pretty solid image. Finally same three-color Brown/Green Red but using the Fuji girls.

Chris Young

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

Oh okay thank you very much. I tried what was done in that video and tried the 'feather' feature. The only thing is, is that it doesn't get rid of all the noise, and I need to feather further beyond what the program will do it seem. But I can keep trying.

As for creating a 3D lut, I could try to do that. I want my three colors to be brown, blue and red, but when it comes to luts, they suck out all the other color too. For example I tried a teal and orange lut on some footage as an expirment in a scene shot in a park, and all the green trees and grass goes brown, and you still want that natural green. So even if you want three colors, you don't want the natural colors taken out of things like that as well, do you?

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

I'm not an expert by any means Ryan - but when you are experimenting with colour correction like this, if the source material doesn't have a full colour compliment, removing some of it leaves holes, doesn't it? Christopher's post was very informative.

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

Oh okay, I just that most real locations would have a full color compliment, because real locations are not colored with all the colors, if that is what you mean?

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

As we've said before...these looks you're after are the result of careful control of wardrobe, set dressing/design, lighting etc....basically any color that appears in the recorded image. They often do weeks of tests (wardrobe lighting etc) to find what will and won't work in camera for the desired final look. And yes, even the more uncontrolled locations (exteriors, places they can't paint etc., that you so often ask about) will be chosen because they know they can push this grey into blue or that red into orange, etc. in grading.

If you don't have all of that coordinated, you will not be able to get the looks you're after.

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

Oh well the locations will be uncontrolled, so those will have to changed in post, color wise. But I have control over wardrobe though. I would just have the actors not diverge from the 3 colors, or black, white, or grey.

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

If you're doing heavy correction on your DSLR, it's 8 bit, using a compressed codec, also the level of noise will vary with the sensitivity settings. Plus your camera records 4.2.0. so it's dumping colour information. All this makes it less than ideal for heavy colour correction.

If you're not using this camera on the film, it's a waste of time doing serious tests, unless you're just wanting to play with resolve.

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

Oh okay yes I am going to be using a DP's camera. I thought tests wouldn't work on my camera, but it was said on here before that it's not the camera that's the problem, and that it's a lighting a problem, and with good lighting no camera will make a difference in terms of pulling out colors?

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

It's a combination of a number of factors. As usual, you pick things up incorrectly.

High end feature films usually shoot using RAW or on film, while high end TV dramas commonly use log onto ProRes 4444. they also have serious lighting rigs.

It was mentioned before, since we're going over old ground, that if you wish to use your old DSLR camera for personal grading tests, shoot stills using TIFF or RAW files. That's unless, you're planning to shoot your feature film using a DSLR with similar limitations..

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

When you went to film school they probably never even thought grading worth covering, I expect because when people invent new tools people go mad and use them. In your production, at your level with your budget I can’t believe you are using locations that NEED recolouring? Why do you make it so hard. Until your acting and script are top notch, grading is rather pointless tess. It wont improve things and makes your multi role nightmare worse. You KNOW how difficult it is, so why do it? The judo thing for example, the two people in it were so awkward and impossible to work with that if those walls had remained whatever they were it would have made no difference. The tint of a scene is immaterial if the content and key features are bad. Remember the old phrase, you can’t polish a turd, and I think we have done this multiple times now.

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

Interestingly, you can polish a turd, but it takes a lot of work.


With Ryan's project that level of work is probably also required, but on the fundamental aspects, rather than the equivalent of using polish.

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

Brian, I've been told by my environmental experts that I need to determine the composition before sources the correct varnish - or should I just buy polyurethane from the local store. I've also been told that it's very simple to do if you have the correct tools, but I only have a coffee spoon and artiste's paint brush. Do you think it will be possible to get the correct colour. I don't have time to collect more than a few samples, but I have been watching youtube videos where the colours are fairly constant.

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

Indeed, you'd need to test such factors as species, diet, state of health etc before achieving constancy in the polished objects.

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

Just thought I have a look at the RGB 3 Color Strip with the correct Cyan, Magenta, and Yellow strip added. I quite like the results. It gives you an impressive amount of control over your final look. Not saying this is a definitive look but it gives the following image that came from a show, can't remember the show's name a totally different look. Quite different when applied to the general run of SOOC images. Much more of that saturated Technicolor POP! What I love about the process is it doesn't affect the Black and White content of your images. They constantly remain B & W regardless of any color manipulations.

Also played around with S-LOG3 using Resolve's Color Transform and then applying this 3 Color + C, M, Y node tree.

My pointers came from an old page that no longer has its frame grabs. The process was well documented thought so wasn't too hard to follow if anyone is interested.

https://sites.google.com/site/intert...-strip-process.

Before and after samples plus the node tree below:

Chris Young

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

While I enjoyed the color grading tutorials this actually seemed more relevant to the topic. Btw at 1:03 what is that camera? It looks like a consumer camcorder but I can’t imagine that they would use some low quality on a televised show.

Jokes aside, I once pressed him on why doesn’t he concentrate on getting the basics right. He said he’d rather spend time on areas he enjoys (color grading, sound effects, movie theory). I understand if you don’t have the money, ability or interest to get the fundamentals right the appeal of focusing your efforts elsewhere. This reminds me when I see old, beat up, inexpensive cars that have been modified with expensive low profile rims and a performance exhaust system. The owner of these cars can’t afford sports cars so this is the next best thing.

Maybe Ryan should have his actors put on orange makeup and wear teal outfits?

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

That sounds more like someone avoiding a root/fundamental problem by piddling with silly, less important stuff. They know they have a problem, they know it's a BIG problem, but rather than do the intimidating, arduous work of dealing with head on, they work on everything BUT it, deceiving themselves into thinking they're accomplishing something and sometimes willfully forgetting the root issue exists.

I'm sure there's a more succinct psychological term for it.

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

I suspect you're getting "Star Wars: Episode1 - The Phantom Menace" (1999) confused with the first Star Wars film, which in 1977 was before they had the technology for digital grading. Its big impact was the use of motion control for visual effects, which were shot on Vistavision cameras. The Episode 2 in the prequel films was shot using digital cameras, rather than film cameras.

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

At this point probably only a psychologist could help.

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

You are right. I should have been more precise. I was thinking of the digital re-mastering of the '77 film. O Brother, Where Art Thou? (2000) seems to the first 100% digitally graded movie according to Codex. an interesting read!

Chris Young

https://codex.online/news/The-histor...l-intermediate

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

Well a lot of movies do color the backgrounds in post when they do not have control over the colors of the locations though and this is normal.

For example in this tutorial here that was shown before:


The walls are white, probably because the filmmakers couldn't paint the walls when shooting. So they color the walls in post, like in the tutorial.

And I know other things matter more like acting, but other movies will color grade in post as well, even if the acting is good. Coloring in post is normal, isn't it?

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

So you don't think that, even though they couldn't PAINT the walls, they didn't purposefully choose the location knowing that the colors that were already there would work with their planned color scheme? As opposed to just settling for whatever location was available and hoping and praying and trying to force incompatible colors into their grading look?

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

Well I don't think I would have to have the make up be orange. I thought just regular skin tone would be good, and I could have the outfits be blue, or one of the 3 colors I pick. But I don't think the skin tone should change, but I can ask a make up artist about that.

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

How much grading that's done in post will depend on the type of production you're doing. Many films don't get involved in that much and many D,P.s don't like it because it's out of their hands,

The use of certain effects will depend on the fashions at a certain time, I suspect when you get to the stage of YouTube tutorials, that's when it's getting well past the time for creative film makers to move on.

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

Oh okay, but move one from what though? I thought that if you want the walls to be a different color than they are when shooting, that that will always be effective, no matter what the time period, isn't it?

Re: Do a lot of movies use this 3 color rule?
 

I think he's saying when a look is so omnipresent that there are tutorials on how to create it, a creative person, as opposed to a follower of trends, would search elsewhere for ideas...that look has reached saturation/become boring. It's like when parents started joining facebook, and that was the signal to the kids that facebook wasn't cool anymore.